NOED and what needs to change about it.
So everyone is discussing NOED and how powerful it is and everything but heres the thing I don't think it of itself is a BIG OP thing. The problem with NOED is the same problem that DS had and it was the fact that it has no pre requisites to activate. It is a powerful perk and it NEEDS a change that'll suit it well so my idea is remove it being a hex and make it have pre requisites. Killers shouldn't be able to just suck the entire game, not hook anyone, not break gens, generally just do terrible then get a free insta down, camp and get a kill because lets face it NOED just punishes survivors for surviving. So making it so it has to be earned and or happens under certain events and consequences is something that should happen. So lets say NOED is made time and token based instead of a hex. Doing various things and achieving various goals will add tokens and time onto NOED. So lets say NOED starts with a 15 second base timer, not much time right? Well doing various actions will give you tokens and each token can add like 3 seconds to the timer. So something like a break action will reward 1 or 2 tokens, a hook would reward 5 tokens, a kill would reward 7 tokens, and downing someone before bloodlust 1 would reward 1 token. Although you can lose tokens by doing things like being within 16 meters of a hooked survivor which could make you lose 1 token every 3 seconds after 10 seconds of course. That way at the end of the game all of those tokens apply the exposed status effect on survivors for a limited time that way it rewards the killer for great gameplay and punishes the survivors at end game where its needed.
Comments
-
My idea is also a buff and I highly doubt you even read it but I'd like to say why should a killer be rewarded for bad gameplay? And anyone above rank 20 knows not to just go out and search for dull totems especially when you have more important things to worry about...Sorry you want free easy insta downs.
1 -
Here's an interesting twist: Tie it to the new moving Obsession system. Every time the killer downs the obsession, they get a single token. Maybe every 5/4/3 tokens, they will have a single instadown hit once the last gate is powered, and maybe the speed bonus as well. If the obsession never changes, they can at best get enough tokens for one hit. However, if they get DSed even once, they'll be able to get enough tokens for more hits.
This would both give incentive for killers to eat the DS rather than slug, give the survivors the chance to use their DS more, and control the flow of the game a bit. Could always be tweaked to need more tokens, but gain tokens on hit rather than down. I guess mainly if it were going to be reworked in any way, I'd much rather see it be dynamic with the new obsession system than random interactions or totems, while still being weaker than it is now.
1 -
Survivors don't have to gen rush to get screwed by NOED. I've been in 15+ minute games where I found all but one totem, gave up because someone else must've cleansed it, go pop the last gen, killer is on top of me as soon as the gen is finished and I go down to NOED. Die on my first or second hook. Yay. That may sound specific, but it's not. It is frustratingly common, and that's why these anti-NOED threads are common. Yes, NOED can punish gen-rushing SWF teams, but it can also reward bad killers and punish non-gen-rushing solo survivors. It's just another thing that can make playing solo survivor really suck.
Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not saying NOED should be trashed or even changed. NOED can't be easily gotten rid of. It's the only perk that counters Adrenaline.
What's needed is a better end game so that NOED doesn't feel necessary for some killers. The game itself needs another mandatory objective so that matches naturally take longer; gen rushing isn't a problem with the survivors, it's a problem with the game's core design. Once all that's achieved, Adrenaline and NOED should be removed/reworked. As long as Adrenaline exists in its current form, NOED is a killer's only counter (other than "git gud don't let the gens get done"), so either both stay or both go. But until DbD is fixed with another objective and a better end game, NOED isn't going anywhere.
If there needs to be a reason to clean dull totems, there could be a thing that if there are any dull totems on the map the exit gates take 8 seconds or something longer to open. There, dull totems still have a purpose, and they slow down the game one way or another.
2 -
That would be all well and good, if totem spawns weren't so horrible and being continuously updated to try to make them suck less.
They're bright, so they stand out on most surfaces and lighting. Their spawn points follow set algorithms, so they can easily be adapted to and memorized where they can and can't spawn. It is impossible to make them line-of-sight proof because they need a direction to be accessable from to be broken (there have been some attempts to minimize this, but they sometimes cause issues like accidental pallet drops or just simply not allowing the animation) and worst of all, there is always the same set number of them in every map. All of these things combined make them a good idea, but a bad execution.
I applaud the devs for acknowledging it and trying new adjustments with each patch to try to improve the situation, but they would benefit from a straight up overhaul with the amount of issues they have.
1 -
Nobody likes Noed, nobody respects killers who use it and no self respecting killer uses it in turn. It needs to go.
1 -
Adrenaline is no where near NOED because it doesn't allow an instant win lmao.
0 -
it kinda can though, especially since up to all 4 survivors can be using it simultaneously. Imagine being wounded and it activating just before getting hit, giving you time to enter a big loop and draw a huge distance with the speed burst added on, while the guy on the hook gets pulled off and instantly put into full health, while the last survivor already made it to an exit gate and is opening it. All during a single whiffed attack and recovery.
A little dramatic, but it can easily stomp killers under certain circumstances, arguably more than noed. Its most extreme applications do tend to be less common, tho.
3 -
Leave noed alone start break totem when you see it git gud.
0 -
NOED has no prerequisits to activate?
Maybe read the perk description first? =)
2 -
Sometimes you can tell if a killer has NOED because they don't have ruin, have a very odd playstyle that doesn't succeed in succesfully hooking survivors. Focus on breaking totems when you're down to doing the last 2 generators. Issue solved
0 -
What needs to change is survivors' behavior during the trial. Specifically, they need to start breaking the totems.
3 -
1 pre requisite...thats it 1 thats almost guaranteed unless the survivors wanna farm BP
1 -
If the survivors don't want to counter NOED, then it's on them to deal with the consequences.
7 -
I cleanse every dull totem i come across yet most of the time NOED still activates
1 -
Use Small Game to help you find the rest or tell your teammates to get off their asses and help you.
0 -
And how about the prerequisite that there must be a dull totem left, which is the way how NOED is countered btw
2 -
One problem I have is that you are using a wall of text and it took me a bit to read. But... I shall be respectful and try to answer you the best I can. I would pick your points out but due to the wall of text I can't really do much.
NoEd has the prerequisite of being a Hex Perk, and thus, destroyable.
I agree most NoEd users can be bad killers, but then what about people like me? If I run NoEd I usually do not run Ruin, so am I a bad killer despite the fact I can go without any perks that actually do something to help me in the trial yet can still kill survivors? The answer is no.
I understand that NoEd is frustrating, but it's on Survivors who do not break the totems that messed up. It's especially on survivors for rewarding bad killers with kills by Altruism. So while NoEd essentially punishes Survivors for surviving in theory, in practice it's a Survivor's fault for not cutting loses and going when they could. (I play solo and if I'm not sure if all totems are removed then I wait at the gates then leave if I see NoEd activate.)
NoEd has went through several interactions before. While it certainly has never had a token system before, it did have a time based system before. Wonder why it was removed in favor of a Hex Perk?
A token system is a terrible thing especially when it could be useless, and the way you phrase things it might even be worth it.
What about this?
NoEd is no longer a Hex Perk, but you have a 5% movement speed increase when all generators are powered. You also gain the ability to insta down all survivors ONCE per person. Afterwards, if they healed up and you hit them again, they wouldn't go down on the first hit again. That fair for you?
(I never did understand why anyone considered NOEd to be equal to DS. Adrenaline is much more closer, especially if used right.)
1 -
This guy gets it. All i hear is its a crutch perk used by bad killers, it punishes survivors for playing well aka the usual self entitled dribble that fills these forums. Ignore the fact your down a perk nearly the entire game for the CHANCE that it will impact end game. Its a tool with obvious counter play and its not the killers fault if counter play isn't done. Its not an I win button but will increase the killers power if not countered.
3 -
>Killers shouldn't be able to just suck the entire game, not hook anyone, not break gens, generally just do terrible then get a free insta down, camp and get a kill
That's a good way to depip. If the killer is going to ######### around the whole game, I'll most likely still pip in the event that I die to NOED.
0 -
another one...
guys... the perk is not even that strong...
please stop this nonsense...
1 -
Noed has a requirement, those that complain just don't want to admit that they are in control of it. You have 5 gens to ensure the killer never gets it, a notification after the first use, and can destroy it. All of this can be done without wasting a perk to counter it. Killer on the otherhand is praying that their useless perk is able to activate if they need it. Your arguing against a situation the killer needs you to permit.
2 -
Nothing. For the 10000th time, break the totems if you're so worried about NOED. The devs themselves have said that they will never touch NOED again, so stop walking by dull totems. I break every totem I find if I can.
3 -
The prereq to NOED is that it only activates after all the gens are powered and only if there a dull totem left standing. Why do so many of these posts keep saying that NOED has not prereqs as if it is a free thing that just happens all the time? Even when it activates the spawn can be dictated by the survivors cleansing all but one totem. It doesn't just grow a new totem. If all the totems are gone, the perk is useless. The moment you down one person everyone is either out the door or they are on the totem half way done cleansing the thing. NOED isn't even remotely comparable to DS which is another thing that comes up in a majority of these threads.
3 -
@Orion Honestly, they need to make solo survivor more fun and maybe add a totem counter or a totem counter to small game at least? I literally gave up on survivor because it's nowhere near as fun as killer is. 1 year ago it was the opposite scenario for me. They need to add a second objective to make it more interactive and slow down gens at the same time.
Please @ me if you respond.
0 -
Honestly, finding parts and taking them to cover 10% of a gen in a similar way that BNP does would suffice once you repair the gen for 10%, the parts appear in structure that you get the aura of and it takes 3 Overcharge III skillchecks to obtain a part. Once obtained, you see the aura of your gen and you can return to it to fill an extra 10%. The rest of the gen takes 90 (I know there's meant to be 128 seconds left but itll be more fair to have 90) seconds if you wish to M1 it out or you could grab more parts. Either way, it makes solo way more interactive and fun and you won't have to rely on chases to have fun. You could also repair a gen but at 160 seconds as 1 person, 80 as 2 and so on.
make a post about it if you want, I dont have the time to right now Goodnight.
@me if u respond.
0 -
It's amazing how many people absolutely ignore that NOED can be countered and even prevented. Then also go on about how NOED is a free insta-down, even though it isn't because you still need to find and chase someone.
But nah, let's change something that isn't even that bad.
0 -
Anybody who compares NOED to DS has no sense of how this game works and should not be taken seriously when considering balance discussions.
1 -
Good thing they're not changing it.
0 -
As 90% killers are using NOED, i always make sure to destroy all the totems... except when i'm chased and my random team genrush and then I get down and be camped lol... But i don't find it so OP or whatever else. I'm using it too as a killer on some ones and OMG its incredible to see how less they care about the totems, i played since last year and its been like 5-6 times only all my totems were destroyed before the endmatch. If they see no ruin on, they will genrush, and crying later...
1 -
Anyone who thought DS had no counters even though 75% of the killers cast base powers counter DS shouldnt be taken serious either.
0 -
Imagine crying "DS was op because you had to use enduring to easily counter it which took up a perk slot." Then saying "To easily counter NOED just use small game and use a perk slot."
0 -
You can't really counter DS in its current form, you can just attempt to avoid it with dribbling or just taking it and going for another down which is not guaranteed at all. Everything with DS is situational and makes you alter how you interact with a survivor you suspect has it and multiple survivors in a trial can have it. You only get one shot at getting NOED to work and it is completely out of the killer's hands as to whether they even get to see it proc. It is literally a perk killers have no control over and can't ensure it is useful. People call it a crutch, but it is a longshot gamble everytime with low return considering the state of the game. There is no comparison to be made between a perk that even with the rework on ptb is still going to be a meta perk that has to be respected and a perk that isn't meta, can't be controlled by the user of said perk, and is more of a hindrance than a helpful endgame addition.
3 -
Remember when NOED was infinite and had no way to disable it? Either you GTFO or died?
Yeah, I feel this is lost on most new players.
1 -
Why are so many complaing about NOED?
Just do Totems and you have no problems ;)
1 -
Noed is fine, if you have a problem, remove totems, it is counter -able, just survive.
1 -
Just-cleanse-totems!
0 -
Please go into detail about this 75% statistic.
I can really use the laugh.
1 -
There are only 5 totems, all it takes is when you spawn in look at your surroundings cleanse the totems in your area hope your team does the same. It's not like totems are cloak mode they are pretty easy to find.
0 -
Don't leave me hanging @Jake_Parks_prince
0 -
I wonder what people would think of NOED as...
==========================================================================
No One Escapes Death, Perk Level 1
==========================================================================
You are animated by the Entity when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, gain 1 Token.
As long as No One Escapes Death has at least 1 Token, Survivors suffer from the Exposed Status Effect.
Each successful offensive action spends 1 Token.
==========================================================================
No One Escapes Death, Perk Level 2
==========================================================================
You are animated by the Entity when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, gain 1 Token.
As long as No One Escapes Death has at least 1 Token, Survivors suffer from the Exposed Status Effect and your movement speed is increased by 10% per Token.
Each successful offensive action spends 1 Token.
==========================================================================
No One Escapes Death, Perk Level 3
==========================================================================
You are animated by the Entity when the Survivors are on the verge of escaping.
Once the Exit Gates are powered, gain 2 Tokens.
As long as No One Escapes Death has at least 1 Token, Survivors suffer from the Exposed Status Effect and your movement speed is increased by 10% per Token.
Each successful offensive action spends 1 Token.
==========================================================================
Just an idea, i'm not suggesting this cause frankly i don't know what i think of the Perk in general.
I just like making up stuff. 😋
Edit: For those who see "100%", please refresh the page: I forgot to edit it before posting.
0 -
The only change I think NOED needs it that there should be a "tell" that you have it. Something that is very slight but noticeable if you pay attention. Also something that you can hide as killer, but at a slight cost. For example, when you damage a gen the sparks are red for a short time. It's subtle but gives away you have NOED. Then if you want to hide it then you just don't kick gens, or do it in a way where you know no one will see the red sparks.
Then as survivor it's not such a slap in the face at the end of the game. And as killer I can show the survivors I have NOED as a threat to make them slow down on gens/do totems which is really what I'd want.
0 -
The only thing that needs to change about NOED is survivor complaining about NOED.
The speech about "Noed has no requirements to trigger", that is the foundation of this thread, is utterly wrong. Noed needs all gens done AND still a dull totem to trigger it and even than the Hex can get found and destroyed.
And those things are not enough "requirements"?
Please for gods sake stop spoonfeeding survivor.
They just have to spent the time cleansing totems and always expect the killer to run Noed until proven wrong. Problem solved. Noed is like the new "reworked" (*cough*buffed*cough*) DS. It's existence along should slow the game down, no matter if the killer really has it or not.
3 -
@Wolf74 "The speech about "Noed has no requirements to trigger", that is the foundation of this thread, is utterly wrong. Noed needs all gens done AND still a dull totem to trigger it and even than the Hex can get found and destroyed. And those things are not enough "requirements"?"
No because it requires nothing on the part of the killer. Devour Hope has requirements because you have to be active as killer to get the effects. NOED is just given to you for failing.
2 -
I can't stand that survivor meme anymore: "Noed rewards you for failing".
That is such a crap idea. It's called "preparing". And just because the requirements are reversed in nature, still make them requirements.
If Noed triggers at all, it was the survivors fault. They failed. They did not do totems.
Stop turning the fault upside down.
DBD is a horror survival game based on slasher movies, so you better like getting a nasty jump scare surprise. But most survivor mains don't want that, they want the killer to be predictable so they can feel safe all the time.
2 -
@Wolf74 "That is such a crap idea. It's called "preparing". And just because the requirements are reversed in nature, still make them requirements."
Yes preparing to fail. And no they are not requirements because you did nothing as killer to earn it. You're trying to justify freebies here.
"DBD is a horror survival game based on slasher movies, so you better like getting a nasty jump scare surprise. But most survivor mains don't want that, they want the killer to be predictable so they can feel safe all the time."
NOED isn't a jump scare. Prayer Beads is a jump scare. SM Myers is a jump scare. NOED is a cheap shot, like hitting someone before the bell rings.
1 -
Sorry, but I have nothing more to say. Your point of view is just pathetic.
Any talk about an end game perk being a perk to prepare to fail is just ridiculous.
And you don't admit that it is the survivors fault if Noed triggers.
You just want to keep survivor safe.
An evil, demonic possessed, psycho serial killer is using a "cheap shot"? Who would have guessed that!
4 -
Most killers can't do ######### about 5 gens popping, factually. NOED needs a change for the top killers but individual perk balance will never happen.
1 -
@Wol74 "Your point of view is just pathetic."
LOL you have no argument and just resort to insults. Very nice. You want a sippy top with your free kills?
1
