A friendly reminder that the vocal minority are not the majority.
The developers of of Dead by Daylight (and nearly every other popular game) get a lot of hate because they seemingly don't listen to their community. But we here on the forums, those on social media, etc are not the majority. Developers have many avenues that they look to for design changes.
I play another game that had a similar insistence that "nobody wants this" and "Everybody hates this" and it just wasn't true. The basic story (with animals as example characters) is that they were planning on adding new characters to the game, one being a cat, one being a snake. the other being a fish. However, they only had resources to do one at the current time. Well, there was lots of people asking for the cat first, lots of people asking for the fish first. Lots of people asking for the snake. So, the developers did an official poll, linking it everywhere they could. At the end of the poll, the cat won, with the snake coming in 2nd. So they announced they'd work on the cat first. Immediately the forums and all social media were flooded by the fish fans screaming bloody murder that NOBODY wants cats, EVERYBODY wants fish. Where were the cat lovers in all this? Playing the game, quietly in anticipation of cats being added. Even the snakes fans were mostly quiet as they were like "Okay, we're next after the cats." Today, all three "animals" are in the game, but the fish fans didn't stop screaming that they were the majority until they got what they wanted.
The same thing goes for Dead by Daylight. When I don't like something, I make my opinion known. Granted, i am one of those few trying to be positive too, but even for me the majority of the time I come to these forums its' to report a bug or such.
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Nothing justifies aggression, hate speech or threats towards the developers. Nothing.
But this isn't what we do here. The Forums are the official line of communication between the community and the devs and everyone is allowed to express their opinions and leave feedback here.
The frustration begins when people feel the feedback is being ignored completely. And it feels that way when you see things no asked for being introduced to the game and things everyone wants not making it.
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Yeah and that's it in a nutshell really.
You notice how complaint posts typically resort to (for lack of a better term) a collective absolutism to make their point, "EVERYBODY hates this" "NOBODY wants this" "This is UNIVERSALLY despised"
"How can I be wrong if everyone agrees with me" Its a very self reassuring standpoint to have and plays a big part in why people seek out echo chambers over real discussions.
I like to be positive about games I enjoy, in fact I've come to really appreciate some of the more negatively viewed and complained about aspects of DBD for what they really bring to the game.
DBD can be hard, and sometimes downright nasty, but boy does that ever make it a good horror game.
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I've not seen anyone really happy with DBD right now.
New players are having an extremely tough time.
Casual players aren't having a good time.
Experienced players are bored.
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Yeah I agree with Pulsar, I don't know many folks who are genuinely enjoying dbd right now.
Nearly all of my friends left, and the one's that play, and I quote "I only play it so I can play with you.
I know as of right now, no one seems to like depipping, and there are lots of discussions here and other places requesting the option to hide their prestige, among other things. After the last AMA folks seem disheartened too.
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Yes, that is true... But how many people who play this game didn't even bother with the AMA cause they didn't have any pressing questions or concerns? You got one right here.
If you are not enjoying DBD, that's fair. Especially all the streamers burning out lately, I find the majority of the ones i see stream DBD exclusively and I've never thought that was a healthy thing to do. While I am not a streamer, I play this, I play 3 other games regularly though too. One of my friends is a primary DBD streamer but technically variety, as she puts it "We play way too much DBD and occasionally other horror games from time to time." and yet she ONLY plays DBD on stream. Off stream she plays other games so she doesn't get burnt out.
Also, I tend to play both sides, and some of my games go well, some do not. Yes, they get frustrating and I do make my opinions known on here, but especially in a game with two sides like this game has, many times it may seem the developers aren't listening to YOU. That doesn't mean they aren't listening to someone else. No matter what the developers do, SOMEONE IS GOING TO BE DISAPPOINTED. It really sucks when it's you they didn't listen to, but it sucks for someone else when it is you.
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Otz has been saying this for god knows how long and his recent video proved your statement. BHVR doesn't care and their lack of ambition shows that.
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The one thing I'll always believe about any online game is the ones who don't complain on forums are the ones that enjoy the game enough to not deal with the hassle of complaining in the first place.
Doesn't mean there aren't issues or imbalances, but in terms of playerbase it will always be this way.
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Disagree.
It has most of the looks and aesthetic of a horror game but to actually play it for an extended its many flaws are really glaring.
It is horribly balanced and full of bugs/cheaters/latency issues.
And judging from the AMA the Devs just seem apathetic to it all.
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Hillbilly is a good example.
How do you take the killer everyone considers to be the "golden standart" and butcher him?
That caused a lot of frustration because it wasn't needed, nor asked for. The feedback was overwhelmingly negative but the nerf wasn't reverted.
So feedback is ignored not once, but twice.
And that, @AbsolutGrndZer0, is when we have a problem.
Post edited by JocelynAwakens on2 -
Yes, but sometimes, even if the feedback is overwhelmingly negative, even if there isn't some other source of information, developers have the right to not agree. We may think it makes no sense, and maybe it doesn't. But I would rather the developers make controversial decisions the majority do not agree with than to make stupid changes just because the majority want them.
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The thing is: the devs dont do what is needed, they do what they like to. And that is the sad fact. Also it doesnt matter if majority or not. Devs need to do what the game needs. From all the changes made last year, maybe a handful is what was kinda needed. Devs could easily make themself popular among the commnuity by doing what is needed, but they just do their thing (that is no good).
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Yes, but feedback can be filtered. You just need to look at everything very carefully.
Hillbilly is an example where feedback was ignored, twice in a row. It is a situation where the majority was asking for the controversial decision to be scrapped and later removed. Neither happened, and now no one is happy with Hillbilly.
Another example is often seen: the initial feedback right after a killer releases. This one is different because people still need time to adjust to the new character, to understand how to play as and against. On this scenario some pieces of feedback won't make it to the game, in order to avoid premature nerfs and changes, like Freddy suffered in 2017.
But you see how different the two scenarios are? The problem is scenario#1 happening far too often with several things:
Like, BBQ and WGLF losing their bloodpoint gains. That also had a negative impact, negative feedback, and nothing was done.
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no no. they agreed. in the nerf blog post they said they were very happy with hillbilly and his performance. and then completely changed him for no adequately explained reason.
I rather they make good decisions. couldn't care less if it's controversial or not.
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I really can't understand the refusal by the devs to revert Hillbilly back to the way he was before his overhaul (other than keeping insta-saw out of the game). I've seen 100% universal negative feedback about those changes on this forum. It seems like this is one of the cases where BHVR know the change was wildly unpopular but they don't want to admit that they made a mistake.
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I don't agree that BHVR don't care. I think they do care, but they are extremely slow to respond to any feedback or make any sort of positive or innovative changes to the game because of lack of competition. There are no other games in this genre that BHVR have to compete with for play time/revenue,, so they can take forever to make changes without having to worry about losing players.
They've been able to operate this way for the past 6 years, but I think that the clock is finally starting to tick for them to either step up their game or risk a mass exodus of players. In past years, new content and events would show large influx of player count on Steamcharts. This past year, that has not been the case - new content and events have brought in much smaller increase in players, sometimes very minimal. I think we've hit the point where the game has become very stale and unless there are some significant changes to game mechanics, game modes, fixing balance issues, etc., it could start to go downhill very quickly.
Just the other day I was thinking to myself as I looked at the hundreds and hundred of useless items and addons I have in my inventory: "are these still going to be here years from now?" That just speaks to the stale state of the game. Removing old items/add-ons that nobody uses and introducing new ones is something very simple that the dev team could do to keep the game fresh but because there is very little competitive pressure, these things just don't get prioritized.
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No one really knows why his nerf was never reverted, especially when the feedback was negative and when the developers themselves said they were happy with the way Hillbilly was performing before the nerf.
I will never understand this situation.
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Sad that most people seemed to miss the point of your post.
Just because the dbd sphere on the internet is negative doesn't mean that's how the majority of the player base feels. Is this what you were trying to say?
I also think people with positive options are less likely to share them because people will just tear it down and say why you are wrong for feeling positive about the game. It's not worth doing.
I'm glad BHVR do the satisfaction surveys because they are anonymous and private so i do think they are getting the necessary feedback thankfully
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My theory with Hillbilly: you ever have a situation at work where something is mandated by an influential manager/department head/whatever, everyone knows it's stupid, but they ignore the internal feedback and push it through anyway? And for the next month you and your coworkers are sitting there saying "Wow, I can't believe this is what we're spending our time on". I feel like that's what happened with Hillbilly.
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That is a very real possibility, actually.
But the mere fact someone gave that order is already a problem. Nerfing your golden standart just ain't the right thing to do.
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I'm really happy with dbd.
Are you sure you aren't just seeing the complaints while ignoring a few hundred-thousand who are happily playing without saying a word?
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Without saying a word? Well, naturally they cant be ignored if they aren't participating.
But I get what you meant :P
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Well said!
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I would consider myself a more experienced player.
I like the game right now. More than a few months ago.
I understand why others might be bored though. Not much is changing or changing too slow.
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Playing killer feels mostly great and playing survivor is a miserable experience.
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Nah.
My survivor experience is mostly fine.
But again, this is just my experience. This does not mean anything for the game as a whole.
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Do you play Solo?
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Mostly, yes.
Sometimes i play in a duo, but that happens once or twice a month.
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I personally think that hillbilly was not butchered because he already had a very powerful ability, an ability with little guardrails as he could spam it to oblivion with virtually no consequence for doing so. Because of this, people rightfully asked behavior to add some restraint to his power.
I don’t understand why some people need him to be in that overpowered state just to find him viable.
Now, I don’t typically like saying this given its derogatory connotation, but, and I’m saying this as respectfully as I can, but perhaps it’s a skill issue.
I would add a copium pepe the frog meme here but I don’t want to add salt to a festering wound which has been continuously picked on for years now as the Billy changes happened literally years ago. I’m gonna quote from a Taylor Swift song titled “Daylight” and say to just let it go. This isn’t directed to you personally, but more so generally to the people that hold the view that Billy was butchered.
It’s hard for me to believe that some people are holding a genuine grudge towards a company over balancing a character in a video game. Character balancing is natural in online video games like these, some of these changes are going to be changes that we will not like, and if these changes truly turn out to be that much of a hindrance to x character, then the developers will adjust accordingly, it’s literally their job to focus on the health of their game. Don’t hold it against the developers for doing their job.
Concerning the main topic of this post, I mean yeah, a vocal minority is not the majority, but this does not mean that the complaints of a vocal minority should be completely disregarded over that simple fact. Now, I can’t confirm, but I do suspect that behavior does not operate under a direct democratic system where majority rule takes precedence over the views of the minority all the time, as such, we should not expect them to base their decisions solely on the popular opinion held by the community at a given point in time.
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I can't very well ignore them if they aren't speaking. I am only able to see feedback that is...you know, vocalized.
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I don't think it is likely that a company can be a build a successful game with a seven year life span by not doing what is needed. I have plenty of disagreements with design decisions BHVR has made, but you can't stumble into making a successful video game.
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Your animal analogy is a good way of expressing the difficulty some companies face. There are also difficulties when so many people have varying demands amd the company is spinning, trying to prioritize.
BHVR can be sluggish in response and also make some questionable decisions. However, when people claim they do not care, that's so far from the reality because the game is what is paying their wages and allowing them to live the lives they lead. It's also their baby, so it's natural they shape it in their image.
Overall, I enjoy the game a lot, but my expectations, the way I play and how I see it are all rather different from other plauers, who - in turn - also are different to others. Different demands and such. As with Otz, I don't agree with some of his comments on that video regarding the AMA but it doesn't mean he's wrong - he has a differing angle.
The best thing BHVR can do is to scrap AMAs because they clearly cannot give details to many questions. Instead, they should focus on polls, giving feedback and statistics, and updates as communication. AMAs are not the way to go when companies cannot disclose much about future plans.
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Lets do something crazy lets share the stuff we like about the game for once.
I would if I could, but everything I liked about this game was either removed, reworked or altered in some way.
What do I have left?
Backwater Swamp. Nothing but Swamp.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Bummer. Yeah there is plenty of stuff I miss from old DBD too.
Look on the bright side as for Backwater Swamp, a mud bath is meant to be very good for the skin... but then again look at the Hag... hmm.
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Well, just like the old Muddy Splinter used to say:
"Avoid walking in the mud or The Hag will eat your bones."
In all seriousness though, things sure aren't looking good for me in this game. But nothing I can do about it except offer feedback here.
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We are glad that you are back :)
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Thank you so much, my friend, that means a lot to me :)
Whatever happens, this Old Freddy main will be here.
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That's kind of obvious.
It seems also that a lot of members of that vocal minority are bent on making the game worse to fit their own personal issue.
I'm glad BHVR makes choices based on statistics (even if I may disagree with their conclusion about such or such issue.)
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The funny thing is though, in some ways the community is more obsessed with changes done based off statistics than bhvr is.
I've honestly lost count on just how many times i've seen people make arguments for or against changes purely off of statistics seen from official dev stats, nightlight stats or any other community created stats.
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I am not interested in doing this discussing again and again. they did their part to place themself on the market and have no competititors. thats enough to say on this part. trying to to polish the game always got a big uproar within the community that has insight on gameplay. the average players doesnt care, cause theyre not that deep into gameplay.
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A lot of these posts prove your point. Everyone has an opinion and though many people agree with it, not everyone agrees with it. The devs are receiving a lot of a feedback from various sources including their own data. To say that they don't care after all of the balance changes to both survivor and killer is ridiculous. Also, to believe that your opinion or even a hundred opinions should result in change that you specifically want to see is not realistic. Yes, you should continue to give feedback as it can be helpful. Maybe they implement it and maybe they don't but they are not obligated to make ANY of the changes we suggest. It's their game at the end of the day. We just play it.
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