i don’t think ftp/buckle up is problematic.
i just think currently the community is having a “petty-off”, if you will, and are trying to gut either sides perks based off of what they don’t find fair.
you know those games where both sides put up a good fight and then someone goes down near the exit gates and gets picked up because of ftp/buckle up and then the killer argues it’s a free escape? i personally think if a team was coordinated enough to pull this off whilst simultaneously getting to end game, i think it’s a fair deserved escape. i may not like it when i play killer and it happens to me, but i don’t think it calls for a gut to the perks. i accept that i played bad, my chases lasted too long or whatever and they deserved to escape. it’s not that deep.
the same way when i play survivor and manage to not get hooked the entire game and escape all my chases, only for the exit gates to be powered, and the killer has rancor… i could argue that is a free kill and cry for rancor to be nerfed, but i won’t. because i think its fun to have these unique strategies in the game. which encourage different play styles.
anyway my point is if people keep on complaining about strong perks to get them nerfed, the game will get very boring and stale very fast. it is already headed down that path. gut one side until you gut the other and it would just be an endless cycle.
like there are killers who can insta down and take people out of the game at 0 hooks, but picking someone up off of the floor and them having endurance for 10 seconds is where we draw the line? i think people need to stop being babies and let the game have some variety and enjoy it as it is.
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What gets people upset about FTP+Buckle Up is that it invalidates your chase. Not getting a hook after you outplayed the survivor in chase can feel like you’ve been cheated. I don’t mind this combo much but I understand why other people are complaining.
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I don’t really have an issue with it either. I mean, it takes two perks, requires a second person to be in a dangerously close position to a chase to even pull it off, and now you have two people injured instead of one. Seems like a fair trade.
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I think the big concern with it is that it feels like you're powerless when it gets used against you.
The only real counter is keeping the person who has it injured, but then again sometimes you don't even know it's in play until it's too late and it costs you the game, especially for weaker killers or worse players, when a chase already costs you a gen if not more, it feels very bad to have it taken away from you with extremely little you can do, you lose almost all your pressure that instant.
Especially during the current meta, first of all you have to ensure nobody sneaks in during your weapon cooldown animation after downing the survivor, then it's already a question, are they under a pallet, then you have to wonder is there some angle they could flashlight save from. Especially after the background player buffs, it's not as easy as it used to be.
I don't think many killer players concern is a strong combo existing, at least it's not mine. I'm all for buffing survivor perks and adding more variety, same thing for killer perks, I'd love more variety. But when a combo exists that feels so uncounterable and unfun from one side, it should get changed. The same that happened to other perks before like Eruption.
It doesn't have to be an us vs them, all unhealthy perks, or perk combinations should be addressed, no matter what side they are on.
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There is basically no counterplay it's not about requiring multiple people or anything of the sort it's the simple fact if someone gets hit with FTP + buckle up there is basically nothing you can do. A death hook player can use it on someone you're chasing and going for either is still a hug net loss in time for pressing 1 button and being healthy.
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like there are killers who can insta down and take people out of the game at 0 hooks, but picking someone up off of the floor and them having endurance for 10 seconds is where we draw the line? i think people need to stop being babies and let the game have some variety and enjoy it as it is.
It's not the picking someone up with endurance part that's the issue, it's the being able to do it in the Killer's face with no repercussions part that's the issue. Counter-play is minimal, sometimes just non-existent.
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You say it's Not Problematic?
Ight.. Lemme know how you're gunna counter that once you get to Endgame and they Ftp + Buckle up in your face to the Door, =D
The Combo IS problematic and it needs to be changed for the Health of the game.
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And the second person near the chase is not doing gens nor will be after as they both will be chased by killer or need to mend.
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You mean just like the killer taking someone out at 0 hooks, with no repercussions, in a survivors face? Almost like there's no counterplay? Stop complaining about something that is already in use by the otherwise unless you want both taken out.
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There are so many uncounterable or near uncounterable killer sided perk combos and add-ons. I think y'all are just seeing this more often because it's currently popular as one of the few survivor perk combos that actually work well to counter tunneling and very oppressive killers. It takes a lot of coordination to do and almost never happens in solo q. I've seen it maybe 3 or 4 times solo q which is a majority of the player base.
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No, I don't mean that. I'm not talking about something else, I'm talking about FTP + Buckle Up. If all you have is comparing two different issues while repeating, "Stop complaining," like it contributes anything all, we don't need to continue this conversation.
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I think it’s bull crap tbh
it reminds me of the days of reviving someone instantly with a syringe except it’s deep wounds and you get injured yourself
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It really depends, usually if you see it it's some sweaty 4-stack that's doing it or if it's against a less than amazing killer it definitely hurts a bit more.
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Uncounterable Perk Combos?
Exquisit Me?
Name me a Few and i'll tell you the Counters,
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If you don't think it's problematic, then hey, how about we give killers a perk that lets them delete a chase. Let's say, a perk that can be activated every 60 seconds that lets them phase through an obstacle. I mean hey, if it's fine for survivors to invalidate a killer's play with no repercussions and no counter play, then it should be fine for killers to be able to do the same right?
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Literally the entire killer meta revolves around undoing survivors' objective progress.
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This logic can be used to justify any perk combos. Machine gun build, old undying + ruin, DS + DH + UB, CoB + Eruption, Some things are genuinely too strong and need to be toned down. Or how do you decide when something is truly a problem vs "everyone needs to just get better"
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In ways that have very simple and straight forward counterplay, yeah. Did they kick the gen? Tap it. Done. The gen is no longer regressing. Even if you let it regress for a while, they butchered all the gen kicking perks so it'll take no time at all for you to get your progress back to where it was. When you're doing a chase, there are, at a minimum, 3 survivors on gens, but lets be charitable and assume that the FtP/buckle up player is just tailing the killer for the entire chase. Let's also assume that the chase takes the absolute minimum of 45 seconds, since that's the expected time per chase the devs have tossed out here and there. Gens take 90 seconds to complete, so 2 people on gens is enough to either complete one gen or have 2 gens halfway done.
The killer downs someone and in the time it takes them to clean their weapon, the other survivor gets picked up. At a minimum, that's 10 extra seconds of chase time added, assuming the killer knows what's going on and waits it out, but in those 10 seconds, they'll reach a structure, meaning you're going to get even more time, so at a minimum that's 20 extra seconds of gen time for each survivor on the gen, but realistically it's going to be significantly longer. By default, gens regress at 1/4th the rate that survivors can do them in. By comparison, regressing a gen from halfway would need 180 seconds of uninterrupted regression.
Can you see how this comparison is nowhere near comparable?
Post edited by Zenislev on2 -
Yeah guys just don't slug while you wipe your weapon
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Ftp+bu is anything but uncounterable. Ftp only functions if the survivor is healthy. Injuring survivors is *checks notes* ah yes, base kit for every killer.
And healing was nerfed for this exact reason too. So that second survivor is off gens for free, has to waste time healing to make it work, and all the killer has to do is be aware of their surroundings.
If you're getting bitten by this combo, a simple flashlight save does the same thing but is easier to pull off for the survivors. Or you're just wanting that second survivor to be banging out gens instead, which I'm sure is the next thing to be complained about after this 'change' (nerf) goes live. This is already on the road map, so I don't even know why people are complaining about this combo. BHVR is already catering to killers whining on this one.
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let me hit some other person that's not trying to body block and take a free hit but rather keeping their distance, while chasing my target real quick with my *checks notes* hatchets as wraith or gf.
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sadako: take the damn tape, michael myers: tombstone is bs but you can counter it using lockers, gens, gates etc
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What bothers most players, not even just many, most players, in DBD, just doesn’t bother me.
I think the legitimate reasoning to that fact is how people are playing Dead by Daylight like it’s the only game that exists. I seriously believe that even if players wanted to stop playing DBD, they wouldn’t easily be able to immediately give it up without some form of intervention. I think many people are addicted to this game and are either in denial, or are outright oblivious to the reality that ceasing to play would cause them mental strife.
I’ve overcome the mania of Dead by Daylight.
For playing more casually lately, I don’t get disturbed by trivialities others bemoan everyday, like this game is the only thing in their life.
I just don’t live for drama and the dysfunctional.
The lows of DBD greatly outweigh any highs experienced while playing, and they are occurring far more frequently.
Regardless, I agree, FtP and BU are unfortunately merely more casualties to deflect blame onto and eventually get nerfed, while the real underlying issues remain problematic and ignored.
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do it looool i’m not a child and am not bothered if people escape or not as i play for fun, if you ftp/buckle up im my face i will give you happy nods as you leave and will still say ggswp after the game. i don’t think it’s problematic. game has got too competitive for people to know how to enjoy it anymore smh oh well
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just play nurse? lmao
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"Just injure everyone" is the new "Just wait it out".
With an addition of an actual "Just wait it out" thanks to the 10 seconds of Endurance.
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This is exactly what killers cried about for healing nerfs before medkit and circle got gutted.
People whined that healing was too easy, they nerfed the crap out of it so most people stay injured. Staying injured is complained about incessantly, sand apparently wasting time healing is too much and getting complained about too now.
At this point just come out and say it's too hard for you if survivors don't start out on hook at match start.
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but playing killer and survivor (solo) is hard, you can´t make any mistake most of the time or you´re fcked
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I dont think the strength of effect from FTP + BU is uncounter-able or insanely op. Its just requirement of 2 perks is quite cheap for its strength. I do think if it requires 3 perks would be more than fine ( FTP + MFT + WGLF)
BU can go back to giving Haste to both survivors, but it should work for both healing and picking up.
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just play legion/plague bro, what's so hard about it?
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i wouldn't be against it if mft was changed to like "get endurance after healing someone else regardless of your health state" so it synergizes with ftp, and also with wglf's activation requirement that 3-perk-combo wouldn't be unfair, imo.
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Yes, both sides have stuff that could do with getting tuned down but BU+FTP can put the killer in a lose-lose situation through no fault of their own. They down someone and before the weapon swing animation is even over the other survivor runs in and picks them up. Then the killer can't really hit either of them without giving them a speed boost.
This isn't like flashie saves where after the down you can then scope out the area and make sure it's safe, or run something like Infectious to see if anyone is around. This happens on the down itself, which gives killers way less that they can do against it.
I get that it's two perks and I get that "oh but that's one less survivor on gens" but that's still two survivors doing gens and for a lot longer because it delays your first hook by a long time, and your first hook is the most important.
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Then that's you in general bud,
You might not have an Issue with the Perk itself. but many in the Community do and it Shows,
Weather you're playing for Fun or not doesn't make it any less Desireful so to say..
so if you put yourself in other's Shoes and realize that "Ey.. that make's more sense that this perk combo is unhealthy for the game along with MANY other combos.. we can get this changed if we can speak up about it" instead of.. what you typed up,
No hate.. just trying to put some logic in there,
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I see ftp buckle up combo as problematic as pain rez dead man's.
Not a priority in this game's state rn.
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At least with THAT you can let go of the gen for a sec when you see someone is about to be hooked. With FTP BU...the only "counter" is to insure everyone is injured before you down anymore.
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