MMR kinda ruined this game…
When you match up with players they’re still either really bad, or really good. Nowhere in between like it was before.
This is why SWF will always be a thing. It ensures you play with people within your skill level.
You end up stuck with players that don’t know how to play regardless of MMR. So you will continue to lose; Therefore, you will lose MMR… So you keep playing with awful players… It’s like an antlion trap. Especially so if you play solo. It’s a miserable experience. Even if you try to survive SWFs will spectate the solo player. Tell their remaining buddy to kite the killer to you. I’ve witnessed this before.
As killer it’s always a SWF. Who will likely make you lose unless you tunnel one out immediately… So you never learn to play effectively… This is also why tunneling is a thing. It counters higher MMR, comms, and everything else the survivors employ.
… Why not just make it like it was before? If the survivors were iridescent I knew they were competent. Gold meant they were seasoned. Anything else meant they were learning, or rising back up.
Good survivors would rise back up to Red really fast. Would dodge anyone less than Gold. During these times whenever I was Red rank I had good matches regardless of the situation.
Now as MMR goes on every match is typically miserable…
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MMR is not even working. It's terrible bad system.
I am feeling like it designed to make you feel good after some loses because my exp with it:
I am winning some matches and then i am getting some very good killers with very sweaty builds. I am fine with that but my teammates are not on this level.
And then i am losing some matches, my mmr is going down. And damn, i am getting some bad killers with insane teammates. Killers are hardly getting 2 - 3 hooks.
MMR was mistake and it's not late to remove it.
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The Grade system did work though. When everyone was Red rank I always had decent teammates. Skilled killers. I could always play with my friends who weren’t as good, and didn’t have to worry about “losing”. For as long as I pipped while playing with them I was fine.
Now whenever I play with my friends for fun instead of sweat teams I lose more often than winning. Which means my MMR is dropping for choosing to have fun even though my skill level is higher. So now I’m put with potatoes, and lemmings. It wasn’t this way before. Not from my experience.
The same with killer. Tunneling was not so bad in Red ranks because killers wouldn’t pip by tunneling. At most you’d break even. To pip as killer you had to make the matches last longer, and do everything else.
MMR took away the core value of DBD (Pipping), which ruined the entire game imho.
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I did feel games were more consistent with the old system. I remember purposely staying in purple rank because I had the chillest games there. As soon as I hit gold they started getting sweaty. Purple was the sweet spot lol
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I can only speak from a new person's perspective, and I know I'm gonna get flack for this but do hear me out... but MMR largely seems fine across the low to mid levels to me...
I started in May, and have played both Killer and SoloQ Survivor from scratch on my brand new account, and I've had every kind of game under the sun... but rarely have I had a game that I felt I could say for sure was not at my skill level. Sure I got the odd cracked Blight or Nurse, and the odd bambi Legion or Trapper, but for the most part my opponents and teammates have been roughly my level.
Recently I've started playing with friends. I've actually started playing with some streamers with numbers like 7000 hours in the game... I've also introduced brand new players to the game literally at 0.
The shift either way on my oppositions skill was... very noticeable... not only that, but the respective quality of builds/characters also shifted quite severely as well.
Since joining my high level friends and winning games with them, my games became noticeably harder with more Nurses and Blights popping up regularly (I rarely saw them before).
I've had days where I get completely smashed, I've had days where I'm almost untouchable, however there are very few examples where I can honestly point MMR as being a problem.
What I personally think is that DBD is a very precise game. Small decisions, and key moments decided on a dime have big consequences. I've had plenty of moments where if I'd dropped a pallet a split second sooner, or pathed just a little cleaner on my lunge, and that's the difference between another 10s at loops and a down... and that 10s window has been the difference between a 3 man escape, and a 4k.
Now I can't speak for high MMR... as I'm not high MMR, I just have to trust you guys on your observations... but considering your average player is likely around me... I think you're gonna struggle to get MMR removed... because for most of the player base, MMR seems to work fine... which is likely why the MMR cap got raised recently, enough players are in that band now to justify it.
I'm not arguing for MMR... but I'm just pointing out, I don't think it affects your average player like it affects you.
Edit: And the issue you get with grades, is that your average player can't get to iridescent rank... and I won't bother explaining intrinsic motivation in games to you... but allowing your average player to reach 'iri' rank is a great tool to keep those players invested and keep game footfall strong.
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For those who are wondering why this happened. The only time the killer community actually quit the game. Saying no to game balance in 2020. The exodus was so large-scale that the lobby of killers turned into this, and the lobby of survivors into an eternal search.
A very logical question then arose in the community: why low-ranking killers had to play against high-ranking survivors. The old ranking system simply broke down when Killers grew tired of the balance of the time.
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They could fix this very easily.
Lock ranks. Brown to green can match only with each other. Purple to red with each other. Now except few days after rank reset, you have pretty much good matchmaking.
And also for fixing lobby dodge, just lock it too. If you joined lobby, you will stay until match ends. And you also can hide survivors and show only their portraits, that also could fix it.
But no, instead of improving old system they replaced it with worse.
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Locking to lobbies, or some other effective way to prevent lobby dodging should go into effect regardless.
I'm pretty convinced we aren't getting a full picture of this MMR system, since dodging lobbies simply turns it off entirely. I know some people claim lobby dodging isn't a big issue, but in reality we don't actually know how much this is affecting the game as a whole.
BHVR is convinced their system works, players are not convinced it works, yet players also have the option to turn it off to try for easier games. Seems obvious to me that the opt-out part of the system should be the first thing to go here.
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Consider the time.
2023-2024 I agree with you. These are healthy and balanced decisions. But in 2020, you're simply condemning high-ranking survivors to an eternal lobby. These survivors simply do not have enough high-ranking killers. Low-ranking killers began to play against red ranks not out of a good life, but to close the vacuum that had formed.
Then the question was how to attract killers to the game to replace those who left. That's why the killers got that great patch. But before that, a new ranking system had to be quickly introduced to reassure the public. That news came very quickly when the level of complaints reached its maximum.
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short story time. Once Upon a time the killer role suffer immensely! mmr was loosen and now solo q suffer. The end
Solo q isn't a place you go to win these days. The average team will fold to killer tactics and the meta been only tactics since ruin nerf. 3genning, tunneling, and camping all require a somewhat competent team. Honestly i feel the devs done their best to help solo q but the lack of coordination is preyed on constantly. Just play swf if u wanna win & have fun
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The fun factor in this game has gone downhill since MMR was introduced. Who is this system for exactly? It definitely didn't help the people I tried to introduce to the game. Even when I didn't play they were getting matched with people who have thousands of hours. It doesn't work for me either as I still get matched with P100 Blights and Nurses. Even when I go on a big losing streak in solo queue.
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"So now I’m put with potatoes, and lemmings."
Great comment. Way to go to encourage new players.
You were new once yourself.
If you can't offer anything constructive don't say anything.
Insults to new and learning players are pathetic and childish.
It's just a game and everyone starts somewhere.
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Different experience here; not to throw shade on your Trials, but there are many inbetweeners. It's often the worst experiences which will stand out in memory, making the reality more exaggerated than it actually was.
Anyway, as for the MMR my belief is that it's failing because it is working as intended. Wins and losses are far too black and white to be used as a measuring stick for the experience of players. The whole principle of it ignores much of what players really should be graded on, which is their Emblem average in each category, as a measure of skill. That shows more about how a player performed in a Trial.
Grading would be done better if it was matched across the gradings. People who scored low in Boldness but high in Objectives on average could be placed with others with a similar spread. Likewise, the Killer Emblems could also be matched, so it bases the MMR and placement on performance in the categories, not on a win/loss streak which can depend on style-of-play, luck, rng, and the other players. A "win" will always be based on a variety of things, so I believe matchmaking should follow a similar path and not something so basic.
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At this point, I take MMR should be scrapped. The feedback is always negative, and it seems to have caused more harm than good.
The ranks weren't perfect. Sometimes that system failed, it happened.
But I would go back to them in a heartbeat because even the worst of that system was far more enjoyable than anything MMR has to offer.
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I will never forget that Nemesis I played 2 months or so back. It was cin RPD and he played decent, but fell for every single juke or mindgame and while he got a couplecof hooks, we had an undeserved 4E, because Nemi was so confused by bodyblocks and why he couldn't move on towards the exit gates.
The post game chat solved the mystery: 2550 hours me had played a 20h Nemesis! And my other teammates were no noobies either, sporting 650 to 1000h in DBD.
Really, no matter the lobby time, but stuff like this should not happen. At all. But this is fine, I guess.
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The MMR calculation is fine. A better player is going to escape more than a less skilled player (in general). Looping is just one component of survivor skill. I've seen plenty of loop-brained players throw games because they don't know where they are or where to take the chase. You can end up hurting your evader score if the correct play is to hold W across the map and die in a corner.
The problem is that they flat out refuse to put good solo survivors together for any length of time. It's why everyone gravitates towards SWF. The devs flat out refuse to actually group survivors by skill. The easiest way to troll yourself in this game is to be good at survivor and play solo queue.
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Yep. Get to solo as a red rank player and immediately find yourself with survivors that AFK, DC, or Kobe themselves to death. Chases that last all of 15 seconds. Get close to ranking up, but nope. Here is 3 depips in a row because someone didn't like the killer they were up against or got downed first.
Sucks
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mmr is why I don’t play killers I’m unfamiliar with
It’s not interesting being ######### on by people with 8000 hours and are gods at the game with a killer I’ve played for 3 matches
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MMR is the worst this to happen to dbd since old hex ruin
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Nah. That’s not about starting anywhere. I have about 2.5k hours in the game. I know it’s not a lot, but whenever survivors get downed in less than 15 seconds after being hit… Every match… It’s… Aggravating...
I saw this right when I started. Heck it happened to me; However, after so many hours I had a sense of what to do. Then I played killer to understand the game better. That’s when I got good as survivor. By learning how killers work/think. I was able to predict what the killer might do.
Back during old lobbies this wasn’t as consistent. At all. I would always be matched with players with some sense of what to do once I ranked up high enough through pipping. If not I could at least attempt hatch escapes to save myself. Then the devs changed hatch escapes which prevents solo players to at least attempt an escape. Then they made MMR. Which ruined solo altogether.
Solo has gotten worse…
Post edited by WaveyTrey on0 -
Why was the grading system changed?
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As killer I go up against P100s alot. Sometimes a surv will switch between their characters in lobby to show me they got two p100s on their account (my highest is P34 skull merchant)!! I am not even that good a killer (casual-ish). Today I played 10 matches, won 2 and only because I tunnelled a surv out. I went against sane sets of swf twice in a row at some point even.
I think I've hit an MMR ceiling line, but at my level of skill it's ridiculous to cap out so soon.
I hope they make it so that SWF's MMR counts exponentially higher. Feels like playing at a tourney level, this game's meant to be causal. Can't even experiment with none meta perks without getting stumped.
(My surv experience seems more balanced though, both as swf and soloQ)
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Survivors I face are never bad, not even remotely. Its more of a case of how good they are. Ranks were far better than this mess. If you wanted a challenge or to sweat, you get to red, if you want balanced games, play at green etc etc
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MMR sort of works...that's why you find it less fun. MMR doesn't mean fun it means fair. It is isn't fair for me as a killer with 3k hours to beat up new survivors. It isn't easy for me to beat 4 survivors who have 3k hours. It's just like Call of Duty...I spent years playing before I got good but now everyone I play against is good too. That's how MMR works.
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Every game I have played that has an MMR system either has me stomping people or getting stomped myself
Usually back and forth
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This was a thing before MMR too though. Tons of posts complaining about "rainbow ranks" and screenshots of green rank killers vs all red survivors and vice versa, survivors green/purple vs rank 1 killers.
In both systems BHVR prioritizes making queue times as short as possible vs getting you into a good match but having to wait for it.
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Rainbow ranks was more due to swf the problem was back then it scaled ranking to the lowest grade which if you had a friend who was still in 20-15s rank you as a rank 1 played those baby killers (hence the whole Ochido situation). Then they changed it too 2 highest ranks scale the group so now your baby friends are facing high ranks, and then who got this new ######### mmr everyone hates that majority of killers wanted
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I don't really get the MMR stuff. It feels like it's opposite ends for me. If i play killer it's a 4-man SWF sweat squad but as survivor it's immersed survivors who just got the game. Makes it really difficult to have a good time playing either.
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