Why isn't self killing on hook at the very start of the game considered as griefing/trolling?
Seriously, I just had a person who picked Gideon map but decided to die at 5 generators only because "we are against Wesker with Gen Regression perks so I (in this context read this as he) is not going to play vs Wesker on THAT map with those perks the killer had".
So a person loaded into a match, ran towards killer to get himself killed only because he doesn't like a killer/a perk, leaves us at 5 generators with 3 people online and killer already having 1 kill on his side so not even replacing with bots can help in this situation, and we are still acting like this behaviour is just fine and shouldn't be bannable?
I didn't manage to screenshot his words about him "legally quitting from that match" but I have a video of that player acting during that match recorded where he placed his medic kit nearby and then run towards killer to get killed while also self killing himself on hook and missing skillchecks on purpose at Stage 2.
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because you'd have to ban half the playerbase to stop it.
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So every game has this ruling in their End User Licence Agreements where griefing matches on purpose is bannable and they aren't afraid of banning players, and here we are suddenly afraid of doing it?
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I'm pretty sure it would go under unsportsmanlike. The in game reporting function lists "purposefully losing the game" under that category.
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more reastically, not allow it. As long as they design a mechanic around its use, it can't be actionable. If giving up on hook right off the bat was something to be punishable, they would simply make giving up on hook right off the bat not to be possible ie removing struggling entirely the first few minutes of the match.
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Why list "purposefully losing the game" in the first place if they DIDNT mean dying asap? What WOULD be meant by that statement?
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Idk probably the same reason DC'ing is listed.
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DCing is automatically tracked, which is why it isn't listed. They already know when ppl DC, so they don't need to be told when it happens.
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well what if someone's trying to get a sick flashlight save off the hook then they would be thrown in the same boat or what if they have to leave for an irl situation and dont want a dc penalty maybe they're cpu crashed 2 times while playing and now they will have like a 30 min penalty. Theres many reasons I for one dont play this game to do gens and get out I play to get content and cool clips so i try it all the time to get the 4 %.
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As long as it has the function of 4%ing, you really can't punish people for using it
I'd love for it to change but I don't see how you could punish people for using a gameplay feature
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Could be that the person had to go. People don’t always quit or give up for nefarious reasons (I.e. to ruin your personal gaming experience). The best solution would be to design a game that doesn’t fall apart for one side or whatever if one person leaves prior to that side reaching an unspecific threshold.
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In the example shown though, it was obviously not someone trying to escape from hook. You have someone who ran to the killer, didn't try to run away, then blew through their hook attempts, followed by all missed skillchecks.
The worst player in DBD wouldn't be THAT bad. There's a difference between failing at being stealthy+being bad at chases+being really unlucky+being bad at skillchecks...and THAT.
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Sources of frustration is overlooked. It is very sad it has manifested itself like this.
For killers, sources of frustrations are usually remedied by the devs: longer gen times, nerfed healing, hatch standoffs, perks generally nerfed, etc.
Survivors hardly have frustrations looked into: hopeless matches as in the case of Wesker with slowdown perks is overkill in public games, killers that slug for bleedout timers to expire, tunneling, slowdown perks, exploitable killers such as Blight and Skull Merchant.
They are finally looking at the 3-gen exploit but who knows if it will work. Low confidence since the anti-camp mechanic was specifically designed so killers can easily circumvent it (ie. standing outside a small radius and tunneling)
Playing as survivor is extremely challenging like no other, unfun, and has no rewards to staying in matches because there is no options in bad matches to have a positive outcome.
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They do not try
If they allow you to catch them and hook them, then they just Kobe if they choose
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Low confidence since the anti-camp mechanic was specifically designed so killers can easily circumvent it (ie. standing outside a small radius and tunneling)
well, because it wasn't anti-camp mechanic
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So instead of standing directly in front of the survivor, killer stands slightly farther away. When survivor is unhooked, they chase them down again.
It didn't accomplish anything.
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Tbf it doesn’t really stop that either. You just have to stand 16 meters outside of the hook which many killers were doing anyway to bypass Kindred.
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If the person "Has to go" there is a faster and better solution for them. Leave the game. Not only do they now not have to wait where a killer might potentially slug them instead for 4 minutes, but they also at least give their teammates a bot. And if they "have to go" then the DC penalty won't effect them, because by the time they come back, the timer should have already gone away.
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Hence why said "feature" should go away. 4% is not fun for anyone. Survivors use it to leave the match and avoid the DC penatly, and it penalizes killers due to a complete RNG thing out of their, or the survivor's, control.
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They'd need to toss luck with it. Currently unhooking yourself is the only thing luck affects, so they'd need to toss the offerings and rework up the ante and slippery meat.
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Because you can't say that it's trolling when maybe they tried to genuinely unhook themselves and then genuinely failed the struggle skill checks.
Very unlikely but if you start banning based on assumptions it will get out of control.
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How does removing the feature and then banning people for griefing not fix the problem?
Look at any other team based multiplayer game:
- Overwatch
- DotA
- LoL
- CS 2
- CoD
- Rainbow Six
Every single one of these games has one thing in common. Leaving the game, or feeding, or griefing your team is a bannable offense if you do it often.
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If I bodyblock a teammates over and over, no one is going to give me the benefit of the doubt that I GENUINELY forgot the controls to get out of the way or I GENUINELY didn't know they wanted that pallet/window.
Why is finding the killer, standing in front of the hook without running and suiciding on hook given the benefit of the doubt of being incompetent, but we have no problem calling the other stuff griefing?
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I'm just sharing what the devs said. I'm too lazy to find the source but i know mandy said something like this.
By way killer standing in front of the hook. That's camping and it's explicitly not against the rules.
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It would be way too time-consuming for BHVR to manually check if each player is needlessly suiciding too often and there's no reliable way to automatically detect it.
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And you think it's FINE to rob your team of any winning chances repeatedly just so you get your funny clips?
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You are probably looking for this: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/2556400/#Comment_2556400
Being bad is allowed. You can't prove they are doing it intentionally, so you can't report it.
If they say they did it intentionally in the post-game chat then MAYBE you can report it, but realistically that is never going to happen. And it likely would have to be very explicit, as in "I ran at the Killer and killed myself on hook to ruin the game"
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It allowed the unhook to happen, this serves as a reset and gives that survivor a chance to escape, and for other survivors to take aggro.
That fact that the killer decided to tunnel is a different issue. It's not an anti-tunnel mechanism after all.
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Then it's not face-camping.
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I at no point was talking about the killer camping...
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This is the only time we'll ever call it "being bad" instead of griefing. We don't call it being bad when I bodyblock my teammates, or being unlucky when I try to open a locker that is in use in front of the killer. Why do we call THIS a combination of both?
Pointing at a locker=griefing
Pointing at a hook=was just really bad at the game
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I mean face camping is just standing still watching a survivor on hook from a distance where if they got off hook you could still hit and/or down them again. 16 meters doesn’t create some magical barrier of protection between a killer and a hooked survivor. Lol
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Well it's not bannable, even if you report it. Because according to devs, it's hard to prove it if survivor meant to do it or they were just bad player.
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Wouldn't that be equally the case for everything else that falls under griefing? If I report with a video of a survivor pointing at a locker to the killer, how is that different than a video of a survivor pointing at a hook to the killer? The complete lack of a chase could be a pretty good indicator that it's not a skill issue.
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Non of them is asymmetric multiplayer game tho? Bad examples. If you look this genre games, most of them does not even have dc penalty but DbD has.
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Well, i am just telling you what devs said. They are not wanna ban people for hook suicides. They are not taking this as ban offense. So as players we have nothing to do until devs change the mechanic or their politics.
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I've self-K'd on first hook before at 5 gens... but only if it has been like 5 minutes, nothing is being done, team mates are terrible, everybody else is on 1 or 2 hooks. I think it is reasonable to predict exactly what the rest of the game is going to look like, so if I have the opportunity to get out at that point, I'm taking it.
I've never done it immediately because I didn't like the map or the killer. I think that running towards a killer and getting yourself hooked because you don't like one of those things, is definitely reportable, as it is simple throwing, regardless of missing the skill checks on the first hook.
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No, face camping if when you're right up in their face, camping them. It's specifically when the killer is right at the hook and it makes unhooking much harder and a trade almost certain.
Even if the killer literally stands just outside the range of the AFC mechanic, it still gives the other survivors a better chance to get the unhook without having to trade, and is thus much healthier for the game.
A killer who is hanging around the area and goes right back to the hook to tunnel is something completely different and is not what the AFC was made to counter.
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Honestly this needs to be addressed.
I'd rather have slightly longer queues than play with cry babies because they are bad at the game and get downed by a Clown or Huntress 30 seconds into the game.
Just make it so that you can't try to unhook yourself if you are the first person hooked.
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You're literally splitting hairs here. The intent is the same, regardless of whatever point you are vainly attempting to spin here.
Far too many killers intentionally proxy/face camp just to hard tunnel and for easy hooks. Why leave the hooked survivor when they can get free downs and more hooks?
Theres a lot BHVR could do to combat or just stop this behavior all together, but we all know they won't.
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Just remove the 4% and skill checks at stage two. It's extremely easy to do and if people have to go like any other game they can eat the miniscule dc penalty this game has.
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You don't have to manually check it, you base it on reports, after a certain threshold is reached, then you investigate. They already have to do this through video evidence for griefing and already do it.
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Everytime someone brings up "asymmetrical" nobody can ever explain to me.
What makes an asymmetrical game so special, that suddenly griefing your teammates is totally ok?
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The difference is important because BHVR stated right from the beginning that the AFC mechanic will ONLY target face-camping while leaving other forms of camping untouched.
They said this before implementing it and yet many players still seem shocked that proxy camping still exists.
This was never supposed to weaken killers staying nearby until the unhook.
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All of the reasons you listed in your previous post along with this. It isn't worth being a survivor. As someone pointed out there has been a survivor bonus since Chucky came out. I don't think I have ever seen it so long. Yeah games were bad prior but they really went downhill afterwards. Not only this but I have DC'd more times than not recently because gameplay is terrible. I have not even been playing. You are right killers do get attention immediately, but what they need to realize they need 4 times the amount of survivors and survivors buy cosmetics. They won't buy something if they are not happy with how things are. 3 gen is their fault because it lies in game design and they had ample time to fix it. There is a new survivor coming out but I highly doubt people will rush out and get it.
People do end their own games for other reasons too, but they probably wanted out because of a streak of bad games or the same killer
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Can't really take these posts seriously anymore as it's mostly killer mains upset about it because they feel entitled to the bloodpoints. While the survivor is getting tunneled and watching their team mates spinning across the map. I'd rather just die on hook and go next.
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I hate the ability to leave the game whenever with no penalty far more because I play survivor not because I used to main killer.
MMR , suicide on hook and essential trolling being endorsed by the devs are all things that should be addressed.
I have lost far more blood points going over the cap then spent them for two years now. People who care that much about bp are probably not as common as you've convinced yourself.
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Honestly, that entire situation is stupid, and if half of the player base needs to be banned for killing themselves on first hook, it would FINALLY be a welcome change to DBD. There are so many people who give up because they don't want to play against a certain killer or go and run off at the beginning to find and simp over the killers in the game nowadays and do absolutely nothing to actually progress the match.
For example, I had a match a few nights ago where I was playing Ghostface. Couldn't find any of the survivors and I saw scratch marks running into the basement. 3 out of 4 of people were down there wanting to be hooked because "we love Ghostface." Doesn't matter if 3 out of 4 of you want to die for the killer, you're ruining the game for the ONE person who's actually attempting to win. It ruins it for people who are diehard survivors, and it honestly isn't fun from the killer perspective either. When I play matches and I get people like that, I just go out of my way to avoid killing that one survivor. I might knock them, but I won't give them the satisfaction of being first out just because " I don't want to deal with this."
To everyone defending the survivor who did that, it's sad that so many of you see that as normal behavior when DBD is and always has been a dice roll. You never know what you're going to get and sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal with it. If you can't do that, maybe you're part of the problem.
Will it suck? Absolutely. But so does playing survivor with the new "tunnel" meta.
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It’s not though. There’s really no need to pontificate or overcomplicate it. Face camping is just, well, standing still and watching the hooked survivor from a distance at which you can easily hit or down them again.
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No it isn't, it's standing right there at the hook. Standing at a distance is healthier as it gives survivors a better chance at saving the hooked survivor without having to trade, which is much, much harder when the killer is at the hook.
They're two different things and BHVR was only addressing one of them. If you think BHVR should do something to stop more forms of camping then feel free to ask BHVR to do that.
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So what is “right at hook”? Is 4 meters? 1? 3.7? 8? …15.999…? 😏
I personally couldn’t care less about camping. It affects the player retention negatively which hurts the game in the long run so it’s a problem that solves itself in the end.
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