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Purposefully bleeding survivors to death should be a punishable offense.
I understand it's a hard thing to police but, why is it permissible at all?
Anyone could stream themselves purposefully bleeding survivors to death for weeks freely. Potentially even getting other players banned for harassment in the process, given players tendency to react to blatant toxicity. Is this really only absurd to me?
edit because nuance is hard: There are obvious exceptions, of course. I'm solely talking about situations where blatant toxicity is at play.
Comments
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It's because the game will eventually end so it's not holding the game hostage not that it's a good mechanic you're forced to afk for a few minutes. This would have been mostly solved by the I'm guessing cancelled/postponed endgame mori mechanic they were probably scared of nurse/blights playing for that outcome. It's a pointless petty thing for killers to do, but why is it even possible in the first place?
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I do that of 4 flashlights are in the lobby. It rarely happens so I don’t do it because no one often brings 4 flashlights in the game.
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Killers need to have option to bleed out survivors as long Background Player exists.
Survivors can also get spots, where it is impossible to hook them. Well, bleed out...
I can see having 4 slugs and killer waiting is not really nice, but it's definetly not bannable. Could be fixed with give up system...
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There are obvious exceptions, of course. I'm solely talking about situations where blatant toxicity is at play.
Bleeding survivors out because you couldn't pick them up and had to leave them slugged is boring, but fine. Bleeding survivors out explicitly to upset them is not.
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So Boil Over and Sabotaging hooks should be bannable too?
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Yea very exciting gameplay get slugged 2x games in a row by the same doctor vpning from south america
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Edited the post. Felt like common sense to me some situation would make it justifiable. Hopefully this clears things up.
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If by chance I am making survivors bleed out intentionally, as killer; more often then not... they forced me into that predicament and abused bad map designs. I had a game in which I play the new alien map as Chucky, and I had a squad whom was abusing sabotage /can't hook me builds for every Survivor in that team. They were not caring about winning but more on teabags and making it impossible for me to hook everyone, especially with how bad the hook spawns in that map particular; in which they used purple hook distance offerings and how they can nearly shut down any hook potentially. It not exactly easy for me to hook everyone in time without them getting off with power struggle, boil over, that perk that allows a fellow teammate to get off faster, etx. So yes had to play different and pretty much slugg most of the time until they were out of unbreakable and I was lucky enough to hook kill two survivors while the rest bleed out for being slug too long and that the closet hooks were to far apart foe me to successful eliminate them. I could have been the generous Killer and risk the Survivors breaking free; but I was simply trying to win a adept challenge then, so I simply couldn't risk it.
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Edited the post. I agree, there are exceptions.
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Trust me, I don't really encounter as much toxic by killer unless they are really having a bad day and had play too many killers games and lose too many times to a bully squads/swf/experience Survivors abuse maps and stacking meta perks to give themselves too much of a advantage to make their life miserable enough to commit to slugging until they bleed out intentionally. Normally killers don't do that when they don't get much BP, Joy in entertainment/killing, out of intentionally slugging to death. I don't play that way when I have a bad day, I simply swap killers or go play another game; or try a meme build or go for a specific challenge to grind for.
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Sure I don't like being bled out, but I don't expect killers to smile in delight when I use lithe to take off ... This isn't a game about being nice to another, it's about getting tortured to death and smacking pallets against teeth to prevent that from happening.
I always try to play as nice as possible both as killer and survivor, but expecting everyone to act like that is just a utopian desire
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The fact that knockout still exists is insane
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I think this would be a justifiable argument were I asking for something outrageous, but I'm clearly not. I don't expect killers to play in the nicest way, only not to purposefully waste my and others time for literally no justifiable reason.
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I would say a good start would be to look for instances where the killer frequently changes between walking forward and backward while in close proximity of a downed survivor while also on close proximity of a hook
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[edit: my current frustrations with the state of the game, the toxicity of the player base, and BHVR's apparent apathy to these problems aside,] i was simply explaining how one might go about detecting the most obvious instances of killers intentionally being toxic. i would imagine that "humping" a survivor who is well within range of a hook for an extended period of time would qualify as intentionally toxic and is not something anyone would do accidentally in the course of simply trying to play efficient
Post edited by ratcoffee on0 -
Might need a fact check. But I think bhvr counts trapping survivors in a corner as holding them hostage if it isn't egc, even if there is another survivor who can unlock the gate or do gens.
At that point the only difference is how long it'll take.
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Video evidence. As simple as that.
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If bhvr would be going back to their own wording, it actually would be an offense as its "refusing to participate in normal gameplay". But like always wording by bhvr is more tricky than a lawyer handbook.
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It's permissible because it would be nearly impossible to police. It's also permissible because of things like Boil Over. I have a strong disdain for boil over users who go to a dead corner but I wouldn't call for a ban because they use the strategy. Imagine asking for a boil over ban because they go to a dead corner. What should they do to not get banned as they are obviously going to this corner to not get hooked/cause frustration. Ban them all unless they crawl to the nearest hook? Bleed outs should be permissible no matter what.
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The devs just need to add a surrender button for the survivors once everyone is slugged on the ground and cant get up. itll end the match so you can move on to the next like identity V does.
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Not sure what being provoked has to do with anything. I believe it really is that simple.
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You can push survivors out, you can't bleed out on command.
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I'm not sure that's relevant. The killer could stop wasting their own time at any moment.
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When and how did I push blame for survivors actions onto the killer? Elaborate
The ability to equip specific perks, not to increase your chances to win or for fun, but in order to attempt to prevent outright toxicity does not make the latter justifiable. Not to mention it's not a fool-proof plan.
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I believe the point is that you should not have to bring this anti-slug perks. Also if they are a newer player and perks are the answer they may not even have access to them.
I believe the game should do a similar end sequence if all survivors are down and cannot get up as to when the final survivor is put on a hook. This way it takes the purposeful time waste away. That way if it is a players tactic to down all players they are not penalized for their chosen play style. The toxic player that just lets them sit there loses a way to waste people’s time.
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It's DBD. If they banned every killer/survivor that played toxic that would be over half the community. Some play toxic all the time...some have bad matches are rage into the next one. Online games can only do so much to manage toxic players.
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I was replying to your comment explicitly stating bleeding survivors out is "just like exit gate camping". I was not shifting blame, only pointing out there's a simple and consistent solution to one, but not the other. If survivors are sitting by the exit gates, you can push them out and move on with your life. If a killer bleeds you out, your options are limited to dubious preemptive measures.
If this resembles in any way "pushing blame on the killer" to you, you're an hypocrite. There's an obvious disconnect here. You're either missing the point or arguing in bad faith.
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"Online games can only do so much to manage toxic players."
I'm suggesting they do the bare minimum.
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I agree 💯!
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I giggled when I saw the title of this post. While it’s frustrating, it’s part of the game. It’ll never be punishable.
sometimes that’s the only only option the killer has.
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No offense, but did you read the post to completion? I'm aware bleeding survivors out can be necessary. This is not what the post is about.
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Shame seeing some people justify and downplay getting slugged out of BM in here.
So, an Onryo bringing Knockout, clearly has 3 hooks and basement near, but slugs everyone trying to just play the game and not “bully” the killer at all and stares at all 4 survivors on the ground for 4 minutes until they all bleed out is fine? Never used their power, didn’t care if they were getting looped, they down someone, slug back & forth and just stand there until the survs bleed out. There is no excuse for that type of gameplay.
I had 2 Onryo’s do this. 1 on Coldwind and 1 on Swamp.
The 1 on Coldwind never used their power, they just slugged with Knockout, I get downed and get humped and the Onryo spams M1 over me, however this Onryo did hook as I got hit on hook.
The Onryo I got on Swamp brought Knockout just to hit & run and watch everyone bleed out.
You cannot tell me that type of behavior is justifiable because “the killer was probably having bad games” or “they’re just trying to win” or “it’s part of the game”.
Slugging for the sole purpose of ill intention should be punishable, and there should be a bleed out option for the survivors if x amount of time has passed. The slugging mechanic also needs a rework, hence bad actors abusing game mechanics.
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Yes, I did read all of it.
The most toxic situation that can come of this is the killer bleeding you out for four minutes while teabagging you, it’s no different from survivors teabagging in the killer every match.
Either way the game moves on. Yeah it’s not fun, but there’s anything that can be done.
Its part of playing an MMO.
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"it’s no different from survivors teabagging in the killer every match." Of course it is. One gets to play the game, the other does not. It's a glaring distinction.
"Either way to game moves on." is applicable to practically every current punishable offenses. It's a demonstrably terrible argument.
"but there’s anything that can be done." Unless you can back that up with something tangible or an official statement, I wholeheartedly disagree.
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Getting slugged is part of the game. Getting teabagged is part of the game. Killer slugging you possibly for 4 mins is part of the game. This game like many other games can be toxic. It’s also part of the game, and a lot of it requires just having tough skin. It’s just a game after all. People put too much thought into it.
If everyone is slugged for up to 4 mins and dies that’s unfortunate and it sucks. I don’t know what to tell you, I am sorry.
if you don’t want this to happen, bring unbreakable, bring exponential, no mither, try to get better at looping, use stealth perks, use distortion, and I could go on and on.
Survivors have plenty of options at their disposal they can use, respectfully.
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If you don't want to be bled out then bring no mither. There is a strategic reason to bleed out survivors.
The reliance on perks or others to get back up is a balance decision. If it seems unhealthy then it can be changed, but that means the entire game has to be rebalanced. Which could take years.
If you don't agree that perks like no mither should be required to get back up on your own then perhaps it would be better to suggest an alternative to the mechanic.
Like maybe getting up on your own takes more time and you're forced to be broken for the rest of the match unless you have bill's unbreakable.
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mostly when we slug and let them bleed to death it is either because they are being very toxic or they are premade that came to troll
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I don't know how to get through to you. Conversations are meant to be genuine back-and-forths, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.
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There are no situations where blatant toxicity is in play, though. Killers will always have deniability. It goes beyond being a difficult thing to police and it becomes fully unenforcable if you need there to be zero doubt at all - "I felt it was the best way to secure the win" isn't blatantly toxic and can be argued by every killer that has ever slugged in their whole lives.
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Right. Let me give that a try.
Again, "It's uncommon, therefore it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be" is a non-argument.
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i think they should instead soften the pain of being left on the ground. Let there be an option to just bleed out faster. Hold down the space and you'd bleed to death in 1 minute instead of 4. having to wait on the floor for upwards of three minutes while the killer 'humps' me shouldn't be in the game.
Bleeding out faster could potentially be used to try and get out of the game faster, but survivors can already do that on hook. The game could/should just auto conclude once everyone is downed, so there is no chance to bm.
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The staff members who handle reports already get a ton of reports about people who don't break the rules. If bleeding survivors out were a bannable offense in some situations, the number of reports for non-bannable instances would outweigh the number of times where it broke the rules. And BHVR would have to decide in what instances exactly it counts as bannable. They'd have to explain it without being so specific that people can use BHVR's definition to skirt the rules (they already do that in multiple instances, for example not explaining the math behind incremental ban timers for disconnects), and still people would not understand it, there would be a million arguments between players what's okay and what's not. This would be a huge headache for BHVR's team, it would cost them a lot of man hours (paid man hours) to deal with a few instances of someone being left on the ground for four minutes, something that can be a normal part of gameplay.
Just go AFK and get a snack or watch an advertisement on YouTube or something if you really can't stand to sit there and watch yourself on the ground for a few minutes. Don't get riled up over something so ridiculous as a game, just be quiet about it and move on. Even when I had PlayStation messages on and someone messaged me after a bad match to either taunt me or rage at me, I either ignored them or was super polite in response. Man, some of those people said some quickly-banned-by-PlayStation stuff after my polite responses. Toxic people hate it when they can't get a reaction out of their targets.
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Knockout exists. Infectious Fright also encourages slugging because it tells the Killer where to go for the next chase.
As long as these perks is in the game, mass slugging as a strategy is deemed to be acceptable by the devs. If the devs wanted Killers to hook all slugged survivors after downing them, they could give basekit deerstalker to Killers to make it easier. Rather than just blaming everything on the Killer player, look at the system designed by the devs and question why some aspects that encourage Killers to act in certain ways exist?
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1) Whos fault is that? Every single survivor went down and not a single survivor has one perk that can help them get up from slugging?
Out of the 16 perks survivors can carry not one person brought anything to help themselves. That’s not the killer fault and the killer should not be punished for it. You all got slugged, of course.
2) it’s a applicable to nothing, getting slugged is part of the game. Teabag is also part of the game it’s not punishable and it shouldn’t be punishable. If you can’t handle it then Dead by Daylight probably isn’t the game for you.
3) In terms of this third point I’m not sure what I was referring to so I won’t touch up on it if I’m being honest, it looks like it was a typo.
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Slugging is fine. That's not what this is about.
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You're not engaging with this in good faith. This is not a balance discussion. I'm not complaining about slugging as a whole, but a specific scenario where killers will purposefully bleed you out, not because it's the efficient thing to do, but because they're petty.
If you could boil down my argument to "slugging is unfun and unfair", bringing up anti-slugging perks would make sense. But you can't, because it's not.
I don't think you understood point two.
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"here are some accurate numbers I pulled out of nowhere and refuse to back up with a source"
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Stop with the strawmans, Jesus Chirst. I never denied the fact that survivors teabagging by the exit gate was common. I was merely calling you out for blatantly fabricating (and doubling down on) a fictitious number in order to support your argument. "80-90% of all survivors stand and drag time for the killer", "No, your arguments are wrong, here are some accurate numbers." This is textbook bad faith.
"But let me turn that argument around [...] I could just as well claim that it never happens." No. No you could not. For one, in an earlier comment, you mentioned that it does, in fact, happen. "Also, its really rare, that im getting bled out, its not even 1/10 games." Furthermore, you and I could just look it up and come up with plenty of examples.
On that note, here are some actually verifiable numbers. These were pulled from Otzdarva's two most recent available vods. A grand total of 28 survivors escaped through the exit gates. 6 were teabagging and/or purposefully wasting his time (4 of which were SWFing, but that's beyond the point). So, just about 20%, a far cry from 80-90%. Now, I hear you; "cherry-picked", "small sample size", etc. This is about as much time as I'm willing to spend skimming through streams to make a point. While the actual number may fluctuate, I guarantee 20% is not far off. Want to triple down? Feel free to come up with a different number and back it up with a source.
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Generally speaking, it's much faster and smooth to secure 4k with bleedout than letting survivors camp on hatch for 30 consecutive minutes, I won't bother finding already winning survivor.
They MUST do something to stop last two survivors from hiding, otherwise bleedout must exist.
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