Dev Update January '24: Gens, FoV, Hillbilly, Onryo, And More!
Comments
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- When a Survivor is hooked, their current Condemned progress becomes locked in, preventing it from being removed.
Am I reading this incorrectly or does this mean for example if you got 4 stacks when I hook you, you now permanently have a baseline of 4 stacks for the remainder of the match?
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W update. Finally Grim Embrace gets its time in the spotlight
I would increase the "regression event" amount to 5% to be in line with the gen kick regression but 2.5% is fine
That would literally take as long to do as just straight up repairing the generator
In order to get the regression event, the survivor would first need to repair the gen for 2.25 seconds (90 sec/gen * 2.5% = 2.25 sec)
Then, the survivor would need to get off the generator and wait for the 2.5% of the gen to regress.
Since normal regression speed is 25% of repair speed, that takes 9 seconds (2.25 sec / 0.25% = 9 sec)
So, in order to deal with 1 regression event, the survivor would have to waste 11.25 seconds (2.25 sec + 9 sec = 11.25 sec)
In order to deal with all 8 regression events, the survivor would have to repeat this process 8 times. (11.25 sec * 8 = 90 sec)
The survivor would be better off getting the gen to 100% and making sure it can't get regressed that way, rather than keeping the gen at 0% while making sure it can't get regressed further down the line.
edit: I see a BHVR employee has noted that ruin doesn't count as a regression event, which makes that even better. however, I put a lot of work into proving that even if it were, intentionally burning regression events is a nonviable strategy for survivors and i'm not gonna delete that work
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That is correct. Whatever progress you have when you are hooked can no longer be removed.
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us onryo mains have been asking her to return for a long while
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Yes I think thats how it works, however seeing as we have back the old tapes, it is only scary in paper as getting rid of condemned is a given if you have more than 50 h so we got old onryo with a shorter cooldown and a bit of reikos watch basekit.
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I'll quickly point out the bad first, because I didn't think STBFL needed a nerf.
But overall? There is some good stuff here!
Blight's busted add-ons are finally adjusted, and it doesn't seem like Ormond will get the "Rancid Abattoir" treatment. Ruin is a step in the right direction I'd say, though the perk still needs buffs.
The 3-gen solution is kinda what I thought it would be, but I'm glad they adjusted gen-tapping together with it. This might actually work.
As for Overheat:
Never again.
However, Onryo's changes are the ones to pay attention to. I'm happy for all the Onryo mains who got their killer back, hopefully she will receive no further reworks and you will be able to enjoy her.
This gives me a lot of hope for Freddy. Especially considering they said:
many longtime Onryo mains felt that her gameplay had changed too much from the Killer they once loved.
There is a certain Dream Demon who has suffered the same, BHVR. Please, keep him in mind.
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Whoever did the math on the FOV slider might want to double check next time. 87 + 15 = 103? That's news to me. 😂
Billy sounds... Interesting. We'll see how this works on the PTB but I'm hyped. I still have my reservations because they were a bit unclear about how his collisions will be changed and they did not mention the 1 button counter to this killer, that has been around for too long already. But overall this looks promising. Can't wait to test it. Undoubtedly he will be stronger than he currently is and maybe he'll feel better to play as well.
Sadako sounds like a big W on paper. But I'd need to test her to have an idea of how well all of this will work.
Blight's addons get some much deserved changes. Although I am not sure, if new Alch Ring actually has much use. It's good for mobility but that's not exactly something that Blight struggles with. C33 sounds like a training wheels addon for players that want to learn Blight, so not bad. His speed addons sound a bit undertuned now. I mean both of them combined are still worse than the old Blighted Crow. Not sure how I feel about that. Adrenaline Vial seems fine now.
STBFL got the wrong changes overall. They nerfed STBFL in every situation instead of just cutting the extreme where it would be slightly better than it used to. This incentivises ignoring the obession even more than in the past. A better change would be to cut it down to 6 stacks and give it a 5.5% reduced hit cooldown per stack. That would leave it at 33% max, which roughly equals the old hit cooldown pre 6.1.0 (slightly more but fine imo).
Ormond. Did they just say that they will essentially buff this map for survivors? I did not see anything about making it smaller or dealing with the strongest loops and pallets on that map (like the snow machine and the god pallets in main building). Instead they are about to remove the only dead zone on the map (fine by me, it didn't have much of an impact anyway) and buff the loops on the shack side of the main building. Sounds like a buff to me. One that Ormond absolutely didn't need.
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The sbftl changes is another indirect nerf to the death Slinger and player who do not play with a mouse and keyboard
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I'm excited for this update. Gen kicking is better and gen tapping is dead. I am interested in trying out both killer updates.
@Peanits is there any update on Blight's "hug tech"?
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this is old sadako and if they don't bring old iri tape back her condemn mechanic will go back to being irrelevant and non existent once again. we'll see
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As a P100 Blight main, I am pleasantly surprised with the add-on rework. I was getting ready to be completely disappointed but alas. Everything looks good, only thing I’m unsure about is the C33 change.. Umbra Salts & Plague Bile were never really good add-ons to begin with unless you’re new to Blight and learning him. Considering you could already control Blight’s turn rate via input those add-ons were really never impactful. But let’s see how it plays out on the PTB.
Rest of the changes look interesting. Wish Ruin wasn’t a hex though.
The amount of cheesing that’s going to happen to counter new STBFL is gonna be funny.
Edit: forgot to mention about the FOV slider, it’s about time. playing killer on default FOV is horrible, and no more wasting a perk slot for shadowborn. also, RIP shadowborn 2016-2024
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Sincerely, thank you so much for this! No more hyper-annoying gen tapping, I literally fist pumped with a loud 'YES!'
At some point, figuring something out for too much endurance/invincibility against lower tier killers would make playing them feel a lot less unfair.
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Generators: Why would you do that to killers but not balance it by nerfing the survivors repair speed, even if it is on an undamageable gen(Look into coding to protect from cheating survivors making all gens hit max regression events from start of match.
FOV: No base impact.
Onryo: So, you just reverted everything back to what it was originally but kept the not being stunned in demanifested and gave a slight , buff?, by making a useless add-on base kit.
Hillbilly: You still need to give them a significant negative effect from entering overdrive such as you can't release the power once you start to activate it or the base movement speed is 4.4m/s.
Blight: Pretty good but you still need to fix the "hug tech" bug that violates the rules of his power.
Perks: STBFL got what it deserved and all but Shadowborn are perfect, might need to add the effect of making you being blinded lasts longer. Maybe add something to monitor and abuse so it isn't so basic as a killer teachable.
Ormond: Maybe put up some higher walls for coverage that make projectile killers harder to use in those dead zones.
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Sadako: The stacks getting "locked in" has me nervous, especially on smaller maps like the Game, it also might encourage tunneling since hooking someone with say 4 stacks might be eliminated quickly once unhooked, the fact that it affects everyone within any TV is also questionable in my opinion since survivors are generally near gens and it will just encourage spamming teleport. I'm really sceptical about this one.
Billy: These changes are great and well deserved, but the biggest problems was always cluttered maps with weird detection that makes you bump into nothing. I hope the collision reduction helps with that a lot.
Perks:
Grim Embrace: I would change numbers a bit, say 32 meters and block it for 15, then it'd be a great perk that rewards Killers for not camping, 16 meters isn't enough if that is the intention of this perk. But even without the change Grim Embrace might become the healthiest perk in the game, perks that encourage spreading the love and leaving hooks should be very powerful.
Quick Gambit:
Its still bad and doesn't adress the main issue of the perk, it needs a complete rework.
Also do perks trigger "regression events" because if thats the case Ruin will become a liabiliy that exists to help the survivors.
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Will there be a visual indicator for Killers if a Gen can no longer be kicked? Also what happens with the pain res stack when the generator is already at its limit?
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All of this sounds great.
Except the wrong part of Ruin was reverted. Disabling on sacrifice is good, it's anti-tunnel. It just needs more impactful regression.
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Does Grim Embrace stack with Thrilling Tremors, so that we have a total time of 28s (12s+16s)?
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I don't think you understood what the problems with Ormond are. Exactly like you didn't understand the problems GoJ has (or pretended not to).
I feel like ruin should have the other effect unnerfed (200% regression -> deactivates when someone dies) but whatever
The rest look like great changes. Sadako ones are interesting and will have to be tested tbh
Couldn't ask for anything better, now some demo and nemmy players will actually have to learn the killer :')
Rip blight addons 🦀
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
The way I understand it is that only perks which take the percentage off "instantly" affect this new mechanic. So, Pop and Pain Res would, as would a dry gen kick without perks, but something like Ruin or Oppression that just starts the generator regressing over time won't.
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Does that mean you have 4 stacks always on you, after an unhook, that you can‘t remove? If yes that will be OP!
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The 8 'regression events' seem to much from me.
I think 5 is more than enough to realise that the killer is constantly in that portion of the map and wants to defend that gen at all costs without leaving.
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You know this will make less people play these killers, this is a huge blow to controller players who already have a harder time with m2 killers
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- There is an indicator when a generator cannot be regressed anymore.
- It would target the second most progressed generator instead.
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I'm curious to see the new 'regression events' in action, though I usually don't play PTBs (mostly I just watch content creators and then have a go at it myself when the updates come to live).
Perhaps STBFL should only lose tokens when the Obsession takes a hit from either an M1 or an M2, not by losing a health state by any means. Otherwise they can also cause the killer to lose stacks from simply using Plot Twist in a corner, which is completely out of the killer's control.
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Twice per match, and even then that'd only work if you're the obsession.
That's a non-issue, I'd say.
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Thank you, that sounds fair enough.
Ruin and Oppression could use some buffs though, the only way they are off any value is if you pick them with surveillance, and even then they are outclassed by perks like Gearhead.
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Not so convinced though.
Her TVs come back on considerably faster than before, and survivors will be grabbing tapes rather than ignoring them to disable the TV for the longer 70s, and ofc denying her TP to get condemned stacks. The fact that the stacks can get permanently locked in, is not trivial.
The kicker is, once they grab a tape, they can't grab them to disable the TV again until they get rid of them... and once TVs come on again, every teleport will affect ALL powered TVs.
This means once the TV comes back on, they're gonna be getting condemned stacks every TP near, not just that gen, but every gen. So they have to go do their TV at some point, otherwise they can't disable her TVs or her condemn build up.
With the right gen slowdown, timings and predictions... Sadako could do some serious work.
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We do have a question on that though: does the survivors missing the skill check from oppression count as its part of the perk (similar to huntress lullaby as that adds bonus regression to missed checks)
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I also wonder if you'll still be able to kick a gen for Nowhere To Hide (or Oppression) even when the gen has reached its 8 regression event limit. Does the generator interaction remain active without any further regression, or will the killer not be able to interact with it at all anymore?
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Overkill and easily abused
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Is it me or did they actually think Ormond was a killer-sided map
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Please give it a try on the PTB and let us know if you still feel that way!
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I truly honestly don’t understand how this is fair, if coordinated survivors decide the optimal strategy is to extend the game to 30+ minutes by repairing a 3-gen in short bursts, then hiding very far away.
When survivors are excessively hiding, then the problem isn’t that killers are refusing to commit to a chase. Instead, the problem is the killers keep patrolling generators over and over, and repeatedly find zero survivors and zero scratchmarks, and the survivors will be so far away from the generators that it’s unrealistic for many of the killers to be able to find them without the help of tracking perks.
No. Once survivors figure out that perk is in the game, they’ll repair for a minimum of 4.5 seconds, then will literally run so far away from the generator that Nowhere to Hide won’t reveal them.
And if the killer is forbidden to kick generators that can’t be damaged anymore, then the survivors won’t even need to worry about that perk being used on damage-immune generators.
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you can have a teammate heal you up off the ground to chew through STBFL stacks. honestly seems like a bit of a time commitment for counterplay but being what it is, I think maybe "when the killer removes a health state from the obsession by any means" to prevent that scenario (and that one renato perk nobody uses) specifically
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So you are really okay with new Adrenaline Vial? It's literally meme addon now. I mean, it 100% deserved nerf, but it should be -0,5 sec per token (to make recharge speed 10,5 sec, almost as basic recharge speed) and decrease speed to 5%. Now this addon is just nerf to him.
Also speed addons shouldn't be touched imo, or at least not in a half. He needs his speed addons to give hits in some loops and constructions, and you should know this as P100 Blight. Now two addons is worse than one old Crow and it's awful change imo.
C33 change i just ddin't get, need to see it in PTB.
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Absolutely love the Onryo changes. I think you all at BHVR completely nailed this one and got it right. I appreciate you all taking the time to rework her again.
My only concern is this line. "When The Onryo teleports, Survivors within 16m of a powered TV will receive a stack of Condemned."
I would have expected it to be only within 16m of the TV Onryo Projects to, but it is all powered TVs instead. I fear this will lead to some of the issues seen in the last rework where skilled survivors will shutdown her mobility while also making condemn a non-threat since their seems to be no downside to holding tapes now.
I personally would rather condemn only apply to the one TV Onryo Projects from simply because it won't encourage survivors to just shutdown her teleport mobility. I plan to make my own post about it later in more detail. Overall great work though BHVR!
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I'm not sure how this strategy could even come about unless the killer's protecting a 3-gen early on, though?
If you're being active and getting work done as killer, those survivors aren't even going to be in position to try that when there's one generator left.
Overly-stealthy survivors can be annoying to face, sure, but I don't see this change making that any worse.
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No where to hide should still be able to be triggered on Gens even if they no longer lose progress on Gens that have reached the kick limit.
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This is one of those changes that don't even need to be tried out
If full condemnation would just expose the survivor or anything like it, sure
But the fact that Sadako can mori them, its just too much
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didn't realize ALL active tvs inflict condemn, and i assume survivors won't be able to turn tvs off at the cost of 1 condemn stack like they could before, which could help her.
but tapes will be such a non-factor it feels like then, you just need to travel a distance to get rid of stacks. holding onto tapes would build stacks over time before rework, and getting your tape knocked off inflicts with 2 stacks now. they won't do anything after this.
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I think they just tried to deal with the two massive deadzones Ormond has. You still have Toba Landing, Nostromo Wreckage, Midwich, Rancid Abbatoir, Cowshed, Saloon, Macmillan estate, etc…
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This update is a real clown car stuffed full of bad decisions.
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Yeah not having any real penalty for taking tapes could be a problem since skilled teams may easily be able to deny her condemn as well as her mobility by taking tapes wherever they are at without any real consequences. Will have to see how it plays out on the PTB and on release but the all TVs apply condemn change concerns me the most.
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You may be right, will need to see it play out in the PTB, but the impression I get right now is a Sadako who tracks people's movement well will be able to prevent survivors getting rid of TVs, and offer a similar level of slowdown as the Pig.
I don't think she'll be high tier, she's still just a stealthy M1 with a TP killer at her core... but the slowdown will buy her time, and she'll at least be more engaging and interesting on both sides...
If she catches a high condemn target, that's when the sauce begins 😁😁😁
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Everything needs to be tested first. You could be absolutely right, but we don't know that until we've seen it in action. The scientific method doesn't end at the hypothesis. Regardless of how it turns out, at least once we've tried it out we can make an informed decision on what to do next rather than taking shots in the dark.
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These sound like broadly positive changes to me. The 3 gen solution seems like a good one too.
But the ruin change seems to be a little bit unnecessary to me. Was it really a big deal to have it deactivate when a Survivor is dead? What's better gen slowdown than one less Survivor able to do gens? It can still be cleansed though, I guess. So maybe not a huge issue.
I can see Ruin being used more often by 3 gen Killers who might favour passive gen slowdown after the update, like Thanataphobia / Dying Light, coupled with perks and add-ons that keep you injured like Sloppy Butcher.
With this in mind, Legion and Plague could become the best 3 gen Killers in the game with their abilities to keep Survivors injured. Legion in particular have two or three add-ons ideal for holding a 3 gen (Frank's mixtape to kick gens in Frenzy, the Fuming mixtape to regress gens not being worked on and Filthy Blade to make mending take longer). Resilience, BNPs and Deja Vu should be able to counter this somewhat however.
Even so, I still think it will be a viable strat to hold a 3 gen from the start of the game even with these changes. Killers will just 3 gen differently. But I guess we'll see how 3 gen Killers adapt.
Having the FOV change removed from Monitor and Abuse is a minor quality of life buff for me too, because the change in view while in chase sometimes made me feel a little bit sick.
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Coordinated teams could purposely target the easiest generators first, and purposely leave a 3-gen for the end. In other words, a coordinated team might find a 3-gen, and purposely refuse to touch any of those 3 generators, until all the other generators have been repaired.
I thought we were told this new mechanic would only punish killers that purposely tried to defend a 3-gen from the start of the game? This new mechanic can clearly punish killers, even if the survivors were purposely creating a 3-gen.
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oh she will be better from a survivor perspective sure. honestly she was just a pubstomper which was an issue. hopefully she won't be way too underwhelming after the changes.
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Right, but doesn't that kind of assume that the killer isn't doing anything to like... stop them?
They still need to get to one gen remaining to even start the process you're describing. That's a pretty big chunk of the match, probably about half of the overall time you spend playing. The killer doesn't achieve anything in this time, doesn't get anyone killed, doesn't create deadzones, doesn't observe patterns in what gens the survivors are prioritising, doesn't have perks to help slow the game down...?
Honestly, even if we assume this scenario you're describing happens, what's stopping the killer from just committing to a down, letting the survivors finish the last generator if necessary, and making the rest of their play during the endgame?
I don't see this as a real problem with the proposed system. Maybe one in a thousand games you have to put yourself in a slightly worse position by prioritising a survivor instead of gen defence, but even then, it's not like you're being forced to throw or anything.
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That would be far less efficient than simply breaking a 3 gen early on like you should do as a survivor.
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