Is Eruption mega nerfed now?
Seeing as how kicking a gen to apply it would consume 1/8 and then downing someone and activating it will be 2/8. So is it now extra pointless in this meta compared to pop?
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... logic says yep.
Did not think about that...hu...
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Yup. On top of that, surge was nerfed awhile back because it was redesigned to trigger multiple times without cooldown. These tokens are going to end up getting eaten up fast before the halfway mark of a match. For every 2 surges on a generator, that's 1 less eruption you are allowed to use, too! At BEST you are now only allowed 4 eruptions per generator. Yet again, more and more regression nerfs. It even removes trail of torment in the match eventually! Killers do a lot of excessive kicking to trigger trail of torment. No more! Like using nowhere to hide? Don't you dare! You'll have less regression choices later.
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I don't think so... 5% for the kick now instead of 2.5%, so just by kicking the gen you get more value...
You thus get more time to use Eruption, and get an additional 10% when it goes off. That's a 5% net gain over what you would have gotten kicking the gen again, and you didn't have to go back to it do it. It also starts regressing again, which a survivor must repair for 5 seconds to stop the regression, so if you're nearby when you get your down and you hear a scream, you can potentially save against the regression prevention too.
Then there is the point whenver I've used Eruption, I can't remember a time I've kicked a gen more than maybe 3 times.
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What about trail of torment users? They kick gens regularly to trigger its affect and can have zero reason to actually do it for regression
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In which universe do you kick the same generator 8 times to trigger Trail of Torment also considering the perk already has a 60s cooldown?
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Again I'm not convinced... Trail has a looooong cooldown, I typically find with Trail that even if survivors are Jonny on the Spot with removing my Trail, I still get what... maybe 6 uses most of the time?
Thats on any gen...
Also Trail is actually buffed, because it takes 5 seconds now to break Trail, rather than just tapping the gen.
Edit: Remember it's 8 kicks PER gen, not 8 kicks period. I doubt you'll manage to get 40 uses out of Trail of Torment in your average game.
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You have to look at the big picture. If you erupt a generator 3 times in a match, then you could only use ToT on that generator 2 times. If that gen happened to also get hit by surge twice, sorry you're simply not allowed to use ToT on that gen, at all.
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I am just gonna say if you get 4 eruptions on a single gen youre doing fine. You took 60% off the gen and got 4 downs. I dont think you missing the 5th eruption is gonna make a big deal... UNLESS youre just trying to hold a three gen sooo I am not sure how much thats gonna effect it.
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Doing fine has nothing to do with the issue. This is having a chain reaction of several kinda of perks getting disabled. This is supposed to stop killers who camp 3 gens at the beginning. This is actually affecting everyone, even people not camping gens whatsoever.
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Trail of torment has a 60 second cooldown and thats after the undetectable stops. I dont think they will be affected by this since its 8x per gen
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Yeah, I am looking at the big picture...
If you've managed to get all of that on a 3 gen cluster... you're looking at least 3 downs... probably 5. That's a lot of progression halted, 12% from Surge, 15% from kicks, 30% from Eruption, plus whatever regression time you got from Trail. You're probably looking at 65% regression or more across those gens, which across 3 survivors 150+ seconds you've saved from the team, plus whatever time you clawed back from them saving and healing each other.
That to me sounds like you've gotten good value, and should be close to getting someone out of the game...
Like tell me exactly how all of this you've described, is bad...
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thats why the number is so high. Like 60% off a single gen plus the aura reveals is def worth the perk slot. You can still trigger eruption potentially 28 times. Its only gonna be affected if you use multiple slowdown, matching it with pain res or surge. Its not going to come into play in standard gameplay.
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Surge is designed to happen rapidly with no cooldown. I've have this trigger 3 times in a matter of a minute before. Eruption takes TWO tokens up. There's also nowhere to hide uses. All sorts of reasons that charges will get eaten up fast. Every charged used up is one less charge you could use trail of torment. You can literally have a situation where you could never even use ToT on a generator.
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Eruption is the great loser of all this, but Nowhere to Hide, Call of Brine and other gen kick perks are kinda gone now.
Pop + Pain Ress will be all we gonna see through now
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So these were already what were widely the most popular but i dont see the others really having an issue with it. IDK how many times you have been kicking gens in a match but I am no where near 8 times on a single one even when I am running these perks. And I get that eruption could be hurt but if you literally get off the 8 regression hits on a gen you took away min 40% of that progress, 60% if using eruption. As a killer this wouldnt hurt you. You wouldnt be doing worse. because also you got at least 4 downs. The only way your doing this and not winning is if you are specifically targeting an area of a 3 gen.
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I won't deny that Pop + Pain Ress is the most common regression combo right there, but there are people wish were not happy with it.
I'm using a combo of Nowhere to Hide + Eruption + Pop + Lethal and it was a very nice combo. It was not the most common situation, but i believe i have situation where the gen regressed more than 8 time because of survivors trying to repair it right in front of my face.
Specially as the Knight - one of the killers i main - now having limited regression will be a hindrance when survivor play badly and you cannot punish them.
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But now if a survivor tries to repair in front of your face unless they are on for 4.5 seconds, which is a LONG time, it will just continue to regress. You wont kick it a second time.
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You're procing ToT with the same kick that sets up Eruption. You spend one of your 8 regression events to activate both perks...
Anyone running multiple gen kick perks, such as Nowhere To Hide and Overcharge for example, is going to similarly benefit..
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a lot of people in this thread really failing to understand just how big the number 8 is, in terms of "number of times to blow up the same generator, as a killer"
i highly doubt regression power will take anywhere near the hit you think it will. if you truly are going to be affected by this change, good tbh this is the change you deserve
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It might actually stop people falling into the trap of stacking 4 regression perks.
You know, something people have asked for is a Exhaustion equivalent for regression perks. This kinda fits that niche.
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You would be incorrect. The kick to prime eats a charge and the eruption exploding eats a charge. That's 2.
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I never said it didn't...
Read it again.
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I have had 3 regression events within seconds of each before. That's nearly half of my charges gone for the entire match in under a minute. That's simply not scalable.
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My bad, totally misread that. As for ToT, not necessarily. ToT had a significant cooldown. Kicking it would use up a charge and NOT activate ToT if on cooldown.
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That killer has 3 people slugged at 5 gens...I don't think they need to worry too much about "only" getting 5 more Jolt prokes in my opinion.
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8 Surge procs is 80% of the gen, that's pretty substantial. That's also 8 downs, so I don't think you'd need to worry too much about gen defence at that point. Unless you've specifically been avoiding a sacrifice, you've almost certainly eliminated someone.
Also, as only events of 2.5% regression or more count. If a gen falls to 2.5% progress, those additional Surge procs aren't consuming regression events.
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okay even if those are the three weakest ones you took 5% from a kick, 8% from surge and 10% from eruption so you got 23% off a gen and still have 5 more on that gen, and got a down and its regressing. How many times do you expect that to happen on the same gen because you need to prime it and get the down. You also can do this three times taking away 61% which is hella value. Thats assuming that they count surge and eruption separately but because they happen at the exact same time I would bet they would act as one event which means you could do it 4 times getting 92% with still having the perks for other gens.
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...do you think the 8 charges is for the entire match?
it's per generator. each generator has 8 charges. that's like 5% of your total charges
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@UndeddJester (and a few others) cover this well. If you actually manage to pull off a situation where you've gotten all of this value out of your slowdown perks and somehow aren't winning/already won then there is something else going on.
It didn't get a lot of focus, but @UndeddJester is also right to the change to time to fix the gens. How frequent is the situation were you down a survivor a few seconds after a gen pops? Well, its certainly a lot more common than regressing a gen 8 times.
I guess if the survivors manage to all pull themselves up before being hooked, you pull that off another two times, then you're just going to have defend the other 7 gens you have left.
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Talking about a per generator basis. That generator in seconds has already lost nearly half the charges for the rest of the match
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let's see. you have 3 slugs and know where the 4th survivor is. you can easily either get multiple hooks or chase down the last survivor. the survivors have yet to complete a generator.
genuinely, why in the world are you worried that less than slightly less than half of your regression on one generator is gone in this situation? "oh no, I can only three-slug the entire enemy team 17 more times before I'm no longer able to regress generators, and then I'm in trouble"
Like I said, this is the update people like you deserve. Your perspective on the game is so skewed that you couldn't even recognize you had already won the game, you were so worked up about not being able to regress one of the gens anymore. With this update, hopefully you'll get the chance heal the way you think about the game and not get trapped in the mindset of "must regress generator"
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So rip high level games then? Watch a tournament sometime, there is a reason killers stack 4 gen regression perks there.
What will actually happen though? The old build was:
corrupt + pop + pain res + flex perk
This gave you around 150-200 seconds of gen defense and a good early start with corrupt. The new meta will be
Corrupt + deadlock + grim embrace + flex perk (probably nowhere to hide)
This new one gives you 120 seconds from deadlock, and another 88 from grim embrace, bringing back to around 200 seconds of defense. And the better part is that it blocks the gen totally as well. Then factor in that they buffed the base kick amount to 5% and survivors can't gen tap anymore. This will be the new meta.
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Yes we get it only the 1% matter.
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Ah yes, one of the "it doesn't matter because it is rare" people.
Let me ask, should the game be balanced around high level players or average level players?
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The tournament level players have always adapted to what the game has been. It has never been balanced at the highest level. This is why tournaments instill a host of restrictions.
It should absolutely be balanced around your average players, if it wasn't, there wouldn't be a game to play.
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Great, so where are my nurse buffs?
Because literally every single time BHVR releases statistics, nurse is by far the lowest kill rate killer in the game. Every single time, and not even by just a little, like significantly. One of the more recent times she was a full 5-10% below the next lowest killer.
So obviously if we balance around the average level players, then nurse is not only "not OP" in this case, but actually nurse needs major buffs.
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This has nothing to do with my performance. They put themselves in that position by 3 of them trying to play altruistic and putting themselves in danger. In my match, I let them get back up and heal reset and continued. You're projecting. "Oh you're a slugger" what else am I going to do in that situation? Let them get saves when I pick someone up? They are the ones swarming near each other while injured. Don't bother trying to say I'm the problem.
I'm merely pointing out that 8 charges is very rare on a gen is nothing short of a myth.
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Except cherry picking a single example of a particular event does nothing to suggest said event isn't 'rare'...
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This kind of thing happens fairly regularly. Not necessarily always surge related, but there are plenty of things that can cause a generator to get hit multiple times in quick succession. The whole "8 will never happen except for 3 gen campers" is an absolutely ridiculous belief.
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I like the part where you came back to the thread but didn't reply and address what i said. Because you realize that once you take your belief that the game should be balanced around average players to its logical and final conclusion, that the truth is undeniable and nurse needs buffs.
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Come on. Everyone knows Nurse is a unique case. It was a bad faith argument that didn't warrant a response.
If Nurse was buffed to a point where 'average players' could consistently 2K with her for a 'fair kill rate' at all MMRs, she would be beyond broken at mid-high level play, let alone the top 1%.
None of this has been a good argument in favour of maintaining a 4 regression perk meta. I simply rolled my eyes and closed the thread.
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Corrupt + Deadlock + Grim Embrace + Pain Ress or No Way Out
My bet on the next meta.
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But let me get one thing straight: the gen will still gain progress from these seconds, right? Or they will have to repair for 4,5 seconds before the gen start gaining progress again? Because they can do this silly stuff of doing the gen in front of the killer face until the killer run out of kick/regression. Its kinda rare and silly, but happened to me more than once.
Really, lets wait for the PTB to Kick in (bad dum tss) to see how this is going to play. But for now, i think this system need some tweaks to be more fair for killer and survivors.
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It was a bad faith argument that didn't warrant a response.You didn't fall for a baited bad faith argument?
You're a superhero among forum users.
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While they repair, the generator actively gains repair progress. It's just if they stop before 4.5 seconds is up from what was regressing, then the gen will continue to regress, again.
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I'm reminded once again that BhVR is very good at weakening and keeping perks that are already underused against them.
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From my understanding they need to stay on a gen until they repair 5% (which is 4.5 seconds no perks/toolboxes/skill checks) to stop a gen from regressing. Meaning if they are on for 3 seconds and then get off essentially it will act like ruin and start regressing again. But a regression event only occurs when the killer causes it to lose 2.5% instantly via kick or perk. So if a survivor hops on in front of you if you get there in <4.5 seconds and hit them the gen starts regressing again but no new event happened. So if we do a scenario:
New way:
Gen is at 50%
You kick Gen is at 45%
You walk away
3 seconds after the kick the survivor hops on gen which is now at 44.1%
You head back chasing the survivor off the gen after they worked for 3 seconds. Gen at 47.1%
You chase and down the survivor after 20 seconds Gen at ~41.5%
Assuming no perks youve used 1 Gen regression event. on the gen.
Old way:
Gen is at 50%
You kick Gen is at 47.5%
You walk away
3 seconds after the kick the survivor hops on gen which is now at 46.6%
You head back chasing the survivor off the gen after they worked for 3 seconds. Gen at 49.6%
You chase and down the survivor after 20 seconds Gen at ~49.6%
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So why is nurse a sudden exception? Where do you draw the line around "balancing for the average player"
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Okay, Surge only pops when you DOWN a survivor. So even if you manage to down a survivor 8 times near a single generator (unlikely) that's also 8 survivors downed. If you haven't already killed 3 survivors, then... you got seriously outplayed and you're already losing the match.
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3 times is a fine. you only lose value if it is over 8 times.
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