Does anyone at BHVR even care about about the survivor aspect of the game anymore?
Patch after patch, same old boring perk mechanics, or perks that literally nobody is gonna use.
This upcoming patch especially is just awful, it's like they spent a total of 5 min slapping ideas up on a whiteboard and then called it day.
Will survivors ever get anything exciting? It's a survivor only release DLC and the most exciting thing is the killer changes? What gives? The last exciting chapter for survivors was Mikaela...that's how long it's been..
Just really starting to wonder if BHVR is just completely focused on killers and nothing else in this game.
Like you all do know it takes 4 survivors to play a match right? Mayne toss the majority of your players a bone once in a while? Is that too much to ask?
Comments
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Mika release was certainly the most exciting, since the introduction of new type of perk.
And CoH was completely op.
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Out of curiousity, what constitutes "caring about survivors?"
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Overpowered perks I guess
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I don't care that they nerfed it.
Its the fact it was a very new and exciting mechanic for game and BHVR just completely gutted it and then just obliterated every other boon in the game.
I mean look at the new one coming out....literally nobody is going to use that...you seriously couldn't write a worse perk if you tried.
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Survivors get almost every nerf they ask for. They got a tunneling nerf, a camping nerf, now there's talks of a slugging nerf. The survivors nerfed every m1 killer into the ground by removing all playstyles except super sweat be everywhere that a lot of them can't do.
Don't pretend this is only one way
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What do you want, exactly? A gun?
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Interesting. So since camping and tunneling got nerfed, killers have to rely on camping and tunneling?
Seems like a really bad nerf then, right?
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Don't forget the gen regression nerf.
It got so bad they had to buff pop.
Not every killer is good and not every person playing killer is good but some (not all) survivors lose to a good killer/player and start screaming for nerfs to everything.
Some games suck for both sides.
Some nerfs are justified but asking for constant killer nerfs because you feel survivors are not getting good perks is nonsense.
I don't but if a killer wants to win then they will tunnel and camp due to gen repair speed.
Any survivor can do a gen but not all killers can gen defence other than survivors letting them 3 gen.
Until devs use hooks to determine the actual killer win rate then things will stay the same.
Using kills as a benchmark is so far removed from the reality that it's laughable.
Survivors kill themselves on hook. Killer camps and tunnel.
It creates a false positive when devs look at stats for killer v survivor and benefits neither.
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At the current meta, i am mostly siding with survivors since their complains have more truth in it.
Said that, my personal experience on that matter is a little bit different. Most of the time in my games, the killer actually DC's or gives up, not the survivors, often really quick. My last match was against a Huntress which ended after a 2 minutes chase (0 gens done).
Might this be a region thing?
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Tunnelling nerf? Are we playing same game? Tunnelling is living in gold era right now, it was never been that strong.
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Don't the survivors gameplay change with each killer?
With The Cenobite they have to mess around with the Puzzle Box and hope that fool don't teleport to them or forget the box and deal with those chains grabbing you.
With Nemesis they have to deal with zombies and the Infection.
With Sadako they have to worry about the curse and find tapes to put in the VCR. And you can't see her and all that weirdness.
All that stuff keeps you from sitting around popping off generators too.
Not to mention that each person plays killer differently and have different perks that change the game.
I think they have quite a bit of gameplay changes
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What boon perks other than CoH were changed in any way? You claim all the other boons got obliterated, so care to explain that? The truth is that this is a straight up lie. None of them received any changes positive or negative.
The new boon perk is meant to be something to help solo players. I agree that it could be stronger but it's nowhere near as bad as you claim. The real problem is that many people these days do not understand the concept of using perks to help them out where they struggle. If you only use meta perks (or perks that fit specific criteria) then of course you are not going to be as strong in other aspects. I could see Ilumination as a perk to help inexperienced solo queue players, if they made some adjustments to it and I think that's exactly what this perk is supposed to be. A helping hand for beginners.
The concept isn't bad but it could use some buffs. However, stating untruthful things like they don't consider the survivor side of things and obliterate perks (that have never gotten any changes) is not helping.
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Devs need to stop listening to all the crybaby killer mains, solo Q survivor desperately needs buffs
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For the illumination perk part, it is really bad perk. It is BY FAR the weakest effect attached to a boon totem, and in a time where boons are barely use outside of COH in a SWF team. This perk wont be used by SWF , veteran players wont use it either and beginners players probably wont pay for a licensed survivor when they can use Deja vu or a Red map, which are arguably better. It is the same as when they release Corrective Action for Jonah and is currently one of the worst perks in the game.
So this perk is pretty much dead on release, only to be used for adepts achivements.
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No.
Unfortunately BHVR is only interested in giving killers good content. (ie. Chucky, Xenomorph, Ultimate Weapon, Friends til the End)
The perks for Alan Wake is a disgrace. I know I have no interest in buying.
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They can make perk good for all players without making it broken.
New Boon for example. Will it be so much if they add gate and survivor auras too? I doubt. And it would had synergy with CoH which is even better.
But instead of making perks valuable, they are keep adding garbage survivor perks. That's why they are not seeing use. I am not even asking meta-changer perks. I am just asking make those perks viable.
But BHVR is known with ignoring survivors when it comes to survivor perks.
We said Light-Footed has so much down-side. Remove cooldown or it should work when you are injured too. But no, all suggestions are ignored and now this perk hardly seeing use. And sad point, it's fun perk. I would use it more but why i use when perk have so much downsides.
Even Quick Gambit buff is showing they just don't want to make survivor perks viable.
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The argument about beginners not having access to licensed perks is a very unfortunate truth. Many perks that are amazing for beginners are like that. But their concepts still aren't bad. It's just that they drown in a sea of mediocre and unused perks because the only people that need them can't use them.
I do think that Ilumination could use some buffs but I like the concept. Locking it behind a license however isn't something I like either. As a base perk, this would be much better.
I don't disagree with you on the part that it could be buffed. Not at all. As it is, it is too niche and unreliable to be a real addition especially for the players that would actually need it, since they don't even know totem spawns. But I'm not sure revealing the auras of your team mates is the best way to do that, simply because it makes other perks with the same effect more and more obsolete. Also it would be weird to have 2 perks with the same activation requirement and side effect. But that's just my opinion.
I get that you don't ask for meta changing perks here but let's be honest, a perk that isn't meta won't find much use. There might be a few people that test it out at first but then everything goes back to normal and you never see these perks again. This is a normal side effect of the meta.
BHVR have been pretty cautious with their perk design for a while now and this goes for both sides. UW is the one exception that comes to mind. Most other perks have either been useless or just too gimmicky to be good. For survivor perks this is a problem specifically because gimmicky perks find no use in solo queue. Sometimes you just need a bit of set up to make these perks work but when you can't communicate, there is no real way to do that.
I believe they aren't trying to make weak or niche perks but they are affraid that whatever perks they do come up with end up as a huge controversy. With Quick Gambit I have no idea why they did that. It just defies all logic. I understand that they are cautious with gen speed boosts but on a perk that would require you to run anywhere near your team mates with the killer on your heel, that would also force you to get closer and closer to them (you can't just suddenly change directions and run through the killer after all) that doesn't make sense. Then again, we have indoor maps like The Game. So the only way to balance this perk is by reworking it from the ground up. The entire concept just can't really be balanced.
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This is probably the only "us vs them" opinion I have. BHVR absolutely does not care about the vet solo survivor experience. Not even claiming that it's intentional. It's a blind spot for them. I think they genuinely don't understand how horrendous matchmaking is if you're a veteran survivor and have fun being optimal. You are there to carry newer players, but you will almost never be matched with a full party of players with your experience level. They have shown it repeatedly with how they've tuned SBMM and how they've rolled back changes that improve the experience of vet solo players.
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I'm sorry but survivors aren't struggling that much. They're still hands down the power role.
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Brother this is the worst place to put a survivor complain, everyone plays only killer and think thats the only struggling side of the game.
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That's what basekit endurance is. A direct response to tunneling
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Where did I say they had to rely on camping and tunneling?
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Yep, you need 4 survivors and 1 killer per a match (I'm not saying ones more important than the other) but survivor REALLY need some quality of life changes. Like buff DS (just during match and not end game) and they NEED to do something about tunneling because its RIDICULOUS right now.
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buffing ds is not a QoL change
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Are we forgetting the times the killer can down right off hook?
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No but it would be really helpful, I don't think it should be active during end game.
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DS isn’t active during end game. Unless it’s glitched.
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The problem is less solo queue itself being in a bad spot but one player ruining the entire match for everyone else on their team in most cases. Solo queue is perfectly fine when everyone carries their weight. So I understand that further solo queue buffs aren't high on the list of priorities.
A chat wheel for communication purposes would be nice but let's be honest, the Meg that's opening a basement chest for her archives, the Claudette self-caring in a corner and the Nea killing herself on first hook won't give a damn about that. But you can't exactly balance around these players either.
If the 3 gen thing doesn't do anything, isn't that a positive? It means that the killer is not holding the game hostage, which is exactly what this mechanic is supposed to do. I think the 4.5 seconds to stop a gen from regressing is a bit much (maybe try 1 second first and see how that goes) but it will not be a buff to 3 gens.
We know that Blight's hug tech is considered an exploit by the devs and they did say, that they were going to remove it. However, looking at how Blight works, it's fair to assume that this is no easy task without completely breaking Blight in the process. When you bump against a tree and then want to rush past it, there often needs to be a little room for you to slide around the object. Otherwise you get stuck in place and your power becomes worthless. That isn't any more desirable than what we have.
Also, let's not forget what survivors got in recent years as well. A new HUD to specifically help solo queue (pretty good, if you actually use that information), base kit BT, hook grabs removed and the AFC are just some examples. So it's not like the devs don't care. They're just incredibly slow when it comes to fixing issues. There was also MFT, which became a meta perk. Killers didn't get much better perks either. UW is pretty good and Friends Til The End is nice perk that is a bit more niche. It breaks the mold, which is a good thing for both sides.
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Just really starting to wonder if BHVR is just completely focused on killers and nothing else in this game.
Saying that in the patch that will add the 4º base mechanic change that artificially hinders killers for the sake of survivors (Anti-Tunneling basekit BT, Removal of Unhooking grabs, Anti-Facecamping System and now Anti-3genning system) along nerfs to one of the perks that makes weaker killers viable is just hilarious.
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It don't even have to be anything groundbreaking. Just some new items! they don't wanna clutter the survival blood web i guess. At least think about reworking maps and keys to something useful.
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Yesterday the Overwatch devs announce huge improvements to the Solo experience for next season. Meanwhile who knows when we'll get a better Solo experience (probably never according to the AMA).
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Let's be real, what would be useful enough that the hardcore survivors would choose them over medkits and toolboxes?
Nothing makes people deviate from the meta unless it's borderline broken, or actually broken. It doesn't matter how good it is, if it can't outperform Adrenaline/Windows/Resilience/ExhaustionPerk, it may as well not exist. Like how nothing makes killers stop running PainRes/PGTW.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make maps and keys do more things, or at least do what they do now much better, but there's very little BHVR can change that would please the hardcore demographic while also maintaining good game health.
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Do you see how many survivors be running around with flashlights and never save anything? Survivors will gladly use non meta items if they are fun. Give them landmines, bats, or just about anything that could hurt the Killer. Guarantee survivors flock to it even if the effects are terrible
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If hag or trapper were played more I bet people would run rainbow maps they are the only thing in the game that reveal trap auras still same for the killer belongings add on
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Meh. It has some usages for solo q.
Besides, people who complain about a stale gameplay run the ssame 4 perks over and over again. How about you spice it up and use different perks you normally wouldnt use. It'll change up your playstyle a bit.
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There's another way to get people to deviate from the meta. Something BHVR didn't think of or is too scared to do.
The goal of the 6.0 update was to change the meta. Only reason why that update failed is because all BHVR did was give other perks a chance to shine with the same benefits. The best way to get rid of a meta is to gut the existing meta while encouraging a new one. Grim Embrace's buff is a prime example of encouraging a new meta.
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I was talking about the hardcore players, the diehards, the veterans and meta-slaves. People who run flashlights just to blind at pallets, or cheeky perks like Blast Mine and Chemical Trap, they're just fooling around for the fun of it. I'm not lumping them in.
The point is, when talking to people who act like they know what's best for their side, all they really want is new meta perks that are stronger than the ones they already have. Go to Nightlight, look at the top 8 survivor perks, anything weaker than those shouldn't even exist as far as this demographic of players is concerned, and they're the ones who make the most noise when BHVR releases anything new that isn't immediately S++ tier.
The game could buff everything you like and they'd still be here crying that BHVR is wasting time on things no one cares about when they should be making Dead Hard 2 because it's the only way to prove they care about us poor survivors.
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Unfortunately, survivor meta will always boil down to "fix gens fast" and "chase forever". And killer meta will always boil down to undoing those two things. We're at an impasse and I'm not sure how to fix it without barbecuing the game as a whole. It certainly isn't easy.
For both sides, I'd like weak perks buffed to usefulness, and strongest perks nerfed to no longer be auto-picks. I especially wish BHVR would go to all those useless survivor perks like Small Game, Premonition, Poised, Corrective Action, etc. and give them boosts, give them effects that are actually appealing and helpful and do things.
I'm disappointed in the planned Quick Gambit rework though. That thing doesn't needs its repair boost nerfed, it just needs a significant range increase of 32m ~ 40m. Then it could actually do something meaningful.
I think this game is more fun the larger the variety of perks is. Dead Hard every match was painfully boring. Pain Resonance every match is painfully annoying.
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What a major assumption. Terrible way of thinking. Anyway.
Clearly you aren't playing Solo Survivor.
Thats another thing I've noticed. A lot of people will state something specifying SoloQ survivor play, and eventually it'll just be lumped in with 'all survivors'. I think people are talking about two different aspects of survivor gameplay and thats when things get muddled.
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I change my build every month or two, and I purposely try avoid meta perks unless I need them for a challenge. I still think this game is getting worse for solo players.
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Yeah basekit shadowborn, double gen regression on gen kicks, even worse quick gambit rework, useless new survivor perks.
Why play survivor???
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Tunneling is definitely stronger than before. Its just there is a basekit endurance so survivors have a chance without using perks. Comparing is pretty much like this:
Pre 6.1.0
- Hit
- Dead hard
- Hit (first hook)
- Hit (teammate has BT)
- Dead hard
- Hit (stronger DS'd)
- Hit (second hook)
- Hit (teammate has BT)
- Dead hard
- Hit (last hook)
Now
- Hit
- Hit (first hook)
- Hit (basekit BT)
- Hit (weaker DS'd)
- Deadhard
- Hit (second hook)
- Hit (basekit BT, denying Deadhard)
- Hit (last hook)
Note that using BT backthen is more powerful than basekit BT, because killers mostly not expecting it and swing. Knowing BT available all the time just make killer wait for it going off.
DS was much more powerful that killers werent dare to pick up survivor, which buy more time, which is why Unbreakable was OP, killers dont respect DS now, its far better to take 3sec DS than waiting for DS timer out, without the respecting to DS and slug survivor, Unbreakable is rarely be seen.
The slugging from respecting DS also makes it easier for a flashlight save.
The number of steps do not count a single teammate could bring 3 health state medkit so they can body block 5 times before asking for another teammate to heal them. Today a teammate can body block 3 times and down. These number can be multiplied by 3 teammates. Not mention self healing speed was 50% faster.
Yes, tunneling is stronger today.
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The game is definitely in a very stale place for survivors right now. Killer mains love to talk about survivors using the same meta perks yet you can guarantee the vast majority of matches you go into will have Corrupt, Sloppy (which wasn't seen much before the healing nerf and has clearly been done to make that even more miserable), plaything and a regression perk. Add to that tunnelling is now rife, camping is now rife (again despite measures to discourage it) and slugging is the go to method if three gens get done too quickly. Slugging imo is personally the thing they need to handle the most. I can cope with being tunnelled as at least you're out the game quickly.
Not to mention the amount of busted changes to some killers such as Sadako and Skull merchant or just generally busted mechanics for killers like Alien, Blight and Nurse. Or that the maps have been changed so there are multiple instances in each match of two gens being virtually right next to each other (I had a match on Hawkins where there were two gens on one walkway). By that I don't just mean two gens being near each other but multiple sets of it happening per match.
The sheer amount of things going on at the moment just make it very oppressive and very unfun. I'm sure killers will have their own list of things though.
Post edited by jajay119 on3 -
Yes I know :) I meant that if DS was buffed in the future it shouldn't be active during end game.
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Guess that only works for some people cause it works for me and I don't get bored of dbd. Oh well. At least I have fun. That's all that matters for me.
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The way you play has nothing to do with what we were discussing. But I'm glad you're having fun! Most can't look past their own selves and thats why certain playstyles become toxic. Not anyones fault but BHVR's tbh. Assuming people will have DBD etiquette and such for other players is silly on their part and now they are struggling in finding a balance for it all.
It simply won't happen. But glad you're enjoying the game :)
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Yes my comment actually does have something to do with the discussion. I commented initially to someone because i believe boon illumination will have some value for certain solo q players who want to help give info to their fellow teammates. Especially on indoor maps where gens can be hard to find for some. But I'm happy that you're happy that I'm enjoying myself with diversity in my build. Not many can do that. So I feel special. :)
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Can you share any you've found that were surprisingly awesome? Or.. just good lol. I've been trying to make meme builds work, so like you, I've been diversifying! Best unlikely combo I found was Sole Survivor and Object of Obsession.
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And all you said while considering that the speed on hit for survivors lasted longer pre 6.1.
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I used to be a undying Meta-Slave but i was lucky enough to escape the cycle and i just mess around with BlastMine/headon builds now but your right Survivor are just looking for the next best broken perk.
Survivor need more fun perks like Blast Mine, Nicolas Cage was a nice DLC with those quirky perks but as you can tell it didnt last long when you look at Alan Wokeness perks.
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