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Legion is sorta fine
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@TreemanXD well working together with randoms (i play soloQ as surv) is quite difficult. Or your tip "dont" meant just DC or sui vs every legion then i fully agree with that tip
but i wont stop looking for reliable counterplay because there is a lot of Legion mains that think he is healthy killer (imo its Pepega killer) but maybe they are right and im pepega but at this point i didnt found answer, and any of legion mains didnt have me proper answer trapper try to predict where traps are, disarm etc. Wraith just look for him and dont let him block window or pallet, billy just dont be too far from window and pallet (dont be in dead zone) then you can loop him, nurse? try to break LOS and if its not good nurse there is much more counterplays i can talk about every single killer but legion? just wait for his 3rd colddown on his m2 xd or just wait for timer to down you
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@TreemanXD well when i see on bond 2 ppl selfcaring vs legion its almost impossible to not press esc and Leave match, because 2 surv would rather selfcare vs legion than in SAME TIME do equivalent of 1 gen (counting sloppy its 2x 40sec, gen = 80sec)
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+ looking at claudettes urban evading in map corner when meanwhile you are chased is neat too, at least 1 time per day i see 1 surv urban evading and while watching him UE somewhere i do equivalent of at least 50% of gen
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Not healing vs legion is just asking to be m1 downed. You can only do that if you're one of the top survivors. Would you just stay exposed against a hag? No you wouldn't.
What you're describing is mostly the solo-survivor life. If you want to genrush a killer then play SWF.
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well i never heal vs legion, i can get chased by legion that doesnt use power all day long all 5 gens long
and about "staying exposed vs hag" hag can tp, legion cant your argument is invalid,
getting hit by m1 vs 110%ms killer is ekhem hard well if surv has no map awareness its possible but if surv isnt bad what is faster? hit him 3 times with m2 or pallet loop not bad surv as 110%ms killer i bet you vs not bad surv 3 times m2 is way faster
yesterday i was chased vs huntress that used all hatchets (missing 3, i dodged 2) and refused to refill, i got hit for 1st time after 4 gens and only because she had unrelenting and i misscalculated distance and attack colddown slow
edit: "What you're describing is mostly the solo-survivor life. If you want to genrush a killer then play SWF." so youre telling me to only play swf(not to genrush but to not struggle with 4Head teammates)? well its funny when killer which hate swf is advicing you to play swf
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and btw i found you in another thread whining about survs that refuses to heal vs Legion, so if you think m1 as 110%ms killer is that easy why i found you whining about that? it was in thread about new killer and you wrote they just wont use shrines to heal so she will end in bad spot as legion xd decide, make 1 opinion not 2 opinions in 2 threads
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Im saying that about optimal SWF survivors, not some rando solo survivors. As a killer you will mostly crush solos because there's not enough pallets on the map anymore for ppl who aren't coordinated to actually find them if somebody else used them up.
And also the Plague is much more susceptible to being window looped than legion without Bamboozle. Also how old was that thread, I'm using thanatophobia already and not healing vs me will put you against a permanent dying light in the next patch.
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well its not about cooperating with each other in soloQ, but smart killer will look for surv that will camp pallet and waste them without looping, then as you told there is not enough pallets, but if there wont be single person camping pallet or afc in bush, there wouldnt be any problem in soloQ but in most ranks, most survs are just camping pallets and i see that from both sides as surv (with bond) or killer
lately i've been playing swf without voicecoms ( like 33% of my surv games, 67% is solo), and i love playing that way swf because im sure there is no 4Heads in my team, and thats all i need to be happy, i dont need to share info, i dont need to be on calls or be coordinated, i just want to be sure there isnt 4Head in my team, but whenever you dont have 4Heads in team angry killers are like "FU swf on discord" etc but thats rank system for you, to be sure you wont have 4Heads in team you need to make your team even without voicecoms, but when you are running bond you get enough info
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you are killer main and if you use BBQ i bet you saw and had ######### thinks what that person is doing in map corner, even on red ranks i know without those 4Heads killer que on red ranks would be impossibly long but god pls dont make me play with them as my teammates
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Okay you know what I was going to say something a bit more productive when most people here.
When it comes down to playing against a killer specially the legion. I don't mind playing as the killer but it is way too easy to get destroyed when they know how to easily counter you.
Don't get me wrong the same thing happens with Survivor and people become irritated when a new killer comes out because they're trying to figure out every way to bully the new one. Which is pathetic.
To be honest your analogy could be used with any other killer because some killers are just an outright pain the fight against. I play on PC and console and I swear to God I'm getting so sick and tired of seeing Michael ######### Meyers every other match because people are punks and refuse to get out of their comfort zone in low ranks and high ranks
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Im-
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about finding things that counter killer, for me playing isnt just mindlessly going from game to game (im not telling you that you are doing that) but i like find ways to get better and improve counterplaying is one of ways to do it,
and my analogy cant be used on every killer because only legion doesnt have counterplay, and without counter play you play almost like bot programed to run + compare finding counter play to killers and as killer finding counter play for T/L walls, shack, and any other structure (some windows dont have counterplay and shouldnt even exist) its same, you learn how to play and not be press W gamer, but i bet when you play vs huntress you never look behind you to dodge hatchet (edited)
and about myers, give me every myers you have i will give you every Legion i get :D vs myers you can break LOS and loop him, but i get you may be annoyed when you play vs same killer over and over again(but remember myers isnt worst killer you may get over and over again)
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so remove borrowed time too? because it's same god damn thing.
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I have over 1000 hours and can still be scared shitless if the Killer plays good enough (but not too good). Good matches are scary. Bad matches are either too easy or rage inducing.
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So I was gone for a bit and my Entity was this a sight to come back to. I think I need more tea.
Unfortunately I do not have the patience to reply to each and every last one of you. But I can safely say I was at least 25% right that someone would have disregarded my entire post with nothing but 'Delete Legion'.
Whether or not you agree or disagree with me I am happy that people didn't go at each other's throats in this thread (or if they did I did not see it as such). So you all restored what little faith I had in these forums, I thank some of the people here for that.
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That being said, this was a post that I want to reply to. An interesting question.
No pallet is ever safe. I could just equip Enduring, Spirit Fury and that pallet wouldn't save that survivor forever.
Jokes aside I personally don't feel that is a good comparison. Legion can be adapted to, every killer can. But a pallet (which in this theoretical example I assume is one the the most godliest safe pallet in existence), cannot be countered completely, especially once the devs fix the 'pallet hit trade off' that we have going on. So when that happens, the point is moot. Even Legion suffers from that, and it will be worse when they can no longer trade hits.
I wish more killers could yeet over pallets and windows, but that's just me (even playing solo where my chances of death is high).
Due to all the complaints I bet you fifty bucks they are going to give him a cooldown as a bandaid fix. And then he'd be worst to play.
Assuming you decide to be anywhere close to another survivor. He trumps stealth, only when he can actually find someone. I've hid from many Legions before and once haven't been found an entire match.
If it's in the game, it can be abused. Survivors do it, and literally every other killer does it too if they could. Yes I know that isn't really the point, but I am trying to say that Legion is being used as a scapegoat for the actions of those that choose to abuse him. What about people like me who don't abuse the chase mechanics (rarely at least)?
I actually honestly wouldn't mind that trade off, 115% for no power death potential? He'll have SOMETHING of map pressure. But I dunno, my opinion is that he is fine as is/or he needs a rework of his power. I gave my own idea somewhere, but of course it won't see the light of day.
Thank you for being calm about all this. One of the things I respect about you.
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i too like this thread, almost noone is using arguments "you are bad" its amazing, im not telling to delete legion because 1st they wont do that (they literally cant), 2nd i like their desing (except power), Sussie is BAE, and i bought both her skin and DLC 1h after release
i want their re-work, i know you can give me a lot plays as Legion, but when you play vs other Legions you can agree most games looks like "i do the exact same things you did but faster but wait for my m2" or "i will moonwalk you to death". And i get that you may play in diffrent way i have exact same problem(but with other killer), i main pig and as we all know 90% of pig players (that arent doing daily) refuse to use dash, or crouch to sneak on survivors (half of them tunnel trap or suck for whole game to use noed and trap 3ppl so they cant run away) and i play pig(and some wraith) with enduring/spirit fury/ whispers/bbq, use crouch to pull survivors off gens and because 90% of pig players thinks her main power are traps those 10% pig players are treated as 4Heads because noone belives you about crouch or dash
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So complaints of ppl are relevant now? Killer Acceleration buff to stop palletlooping when?
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@Shad03 we can argue most ppl will complain about anything but in my case Legion is 1st killer i complain about as whole (ofc i complain about red/purple stuff from both sides not only killers but i never was so anti killer as whole) i started playing 2 months before Freddy came out and i didnt complained about him (maybe about 20 freddys in row after week but it was more about 20 same killers in row than its freddy)
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Honestly don't know.
I'll be happy with longer duration and faster Frenzy Movement as base for Legion. SO I can use power as intended.
Or replace Fuming Mixtape's effects to allow for Unlimited Frenzy, which only goes away if you double hit a survivor.
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well killers are complaining about pallet looping since survs started doing that, and now its over 2 times less pallets (maybe even less than 2 times but 2 times since i started playing so i can tell that much) so tell me sth about no results in bitching about pallet loops
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I have a friend who doesn't even need pallets. Just a jungle gym. He can literally hold a killer off with ONE pallet an entire game, to the point the killer just kinda ignores him.
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Dont get me wrong, I also like Legion but he just doesnt care about the game's rules and that's a problem.
At least Nurse suffers from fatigue when she fails her swing, but making Legion stop his entire power when he misses would make him even worse than what he is now.
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I'm just gonna wait this whole ordeal out until the emblem system completely wrecks a majority of the high rank killers(and survivors) who use toxic playstyles such as tunnel/camp/slugging to get kills.
I run Iron Will and Lightweight on just about every build because of Legion. To counter Legion, you don't heal to full. You're wasting time. Break all the totems and gen rush him. Legion is fairly garbage unless you're playing solo then you might run into issues due to the huge lack of coordination and Specific Addon combinations make him almost impossible to get away from.
Deep Wound is a trivial joke. Almost every Legion runs the same meme build. So just play to counter it.
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He's a edgy rebellious teen. The fact he, or the other Legion members, don't play by the rules is the most in character thing about him. Also the most genius thing that the devs did, intentional or not.
But, that I will agree is the problem with Legion. You can't touch him or else he'll be unplayable/unbeatable. Which is why I said he's sorta fine.
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100% the killer's fault
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The only real meta I run on Legion is Blood Hound and Sloppy Butcher. Purely because I used that perk combo long before Legion was a thing.
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@Shad03 if killer is hold for entire game with 1 pallet and T/L walls that mean that killer is dumb enough and even bloodlust 3 isnt helping him, BL 3 is pretty much guaranteed hit
im not telling your friend isnt good, but that killer was literally worst killer in the game, i know there can spawn disgusting set-ups on lerrys or haddonfield and then map can almost be infinite
no mather how much your friend is good with current game mechanics BL3 (i know its weaker than it used to be but still its strong), bamboozle you can pull off 5 gen chase using 1 pallet IF killer isnt pretty much rank 15
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On 100% of the matches against various killers?
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I don't know what you're thinking but legion will still be great to pip with the new system. Toxic Playstyles i.e dragging the game out unneccesarily are rewarded with the new system.
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Don't get me wrong, sometimes he does get hit. But then he also runs Dead Hard, which (if the game doesn't screw him over) buys him more time then he needs.
Maybe I was exaggerating by basically in all matches he can outplay the killers. Even Nurses are not safe (unless it is a sweaty try hard nurse but I don't count them), on the times he does drop pallets it usually helps him.
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I try to be as unbiased as I can be.... but legion is not okay...... this killer doesn't really reward... you can just hop on and go nothing really to learn and there is borderline 0 counter play.... legit a player who has invested more then 5000 hrs into this game can make the juke of their gaming career and legion will still get the hit as long as the player has invested at least a weeks worth of time...
I'm the type of player who enjoys playing characters which rewards for the playtime I invest.... like spirit... with legion I can just hop on and not even care I miss attacks while in frenzy because theres 0 punish for playing bad..... I'm happy that bhvr bounced back from "The Accident Chapter" and I hope that they at some point can do something for legion
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@Shad03 i dont wont to be mean but i cant belive in constantly pulling of 5 gen chase agains every killer (except nurse), i want some proof because i refuse to belive someone can for example 10 times in row meet so bad killers, but if for example you are playing together and someone has R15 and you play vs R15 killer thats possible, but that count as de-ranking to bully baby killers and that should be bannable + if he is using "deffinetly not infinite windows" (i hope you know what i mean, like ironworks window) then its possible but thats scummy and there is no infinite window in every map so its not possible
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Given that we usually get the worst possible maps for killers, it's believable. Of course on the rare occasion we do get a good killer, but those are few and far between.
I will tell you, he practiced his arse off to be a good looper and killer runner. I feel safe having him in a match cause I know he can handle the killers.
(That being said, there were a few times a Myers tombstoned him, but he laughed. And we did as well)
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@Bravo0413 It's all subjective my friend. I don't claim that everyone should fine Legion is fun and balanced. But what I am saying is that people are overblowing how bad he is. And juking is never reliable, to the point even I question how I downed someone who should by all rights, still be healthy or injured. I still hook em' but even so...
I find personally find Legion rewarding because I use mindgames and such to kill the survivors. What people like to forget the heart attack the Legion suffers can really be a detriment without add ons to help. And I barely have the cooldown add ons of any sort.
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legion has literally zero counter play..that's why ppl dc vs him. not fun playing against something that has no counter.
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@Spicybarbecue It's a never ending cycle. People want to play Legion legitimately.
People dc, denying the legitimate Legion players from playing and learning how to be better as Legion.
The people who dc deny themselves from learning how to deal with Legion. And then they complain there is no counter to Legion.
It starts, stops, and begins all over again with no end in sight. The literal definition of insanity because people can't or don't want to adapt to a killer who can (for the price of a heart attack) deny the safety of pallets.
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We are talking about the legion, not nurse.
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jungle gyms are strong structures. not strong enough for a 5 gen chase. unless you're against a truly new player that many games in a row, you're lying.
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I will admit I was exaggerating. But I was not exaggerating a lot of the games are secured for the win for me and my team with that friend running the killer.
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Its insane how so many People jump on the Bandwagon of "legion makes people dc" without even understanding anything. Some people even posted that he is stronger than Nurse lul.
He is weak when it comes to killing survivor its just that you cant avoid his ability that you have to spent most of your time mending and this is just boring as hell but in the end legion will not kill any decent survivor unless they do the moonwalk thingy and this takes way too much time.
Is he annoying: yes Is he good or strong: no
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Nope. As long as Legion is in the game the way they are, and as long as rank means ######### all, I'm gonna dc every time. I will gladly trade off losing a couple pips (oh noes!) in order to get a match I'm actually going to enjoy. It's not my fault that the devs made a killer like legion and it's not my fault you decided to play as them. Either find another killer to play, or deal with people DC.
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So I guess all killers should dc when (current) ds screws up an entire game? Or what about loops? I rarely find playing ring around the freakin' rosie fun at all. I don't want easy games, just to let you know, but for you to say that means you are unable to adapt to a killer who breaks the meta of the game.
It is not your fault that the devs made a killer whom challenges the meta, it IS your fault for not learning how to versus a Legion. Either learn to play against killers who break the meta (people like to forget that the Legion gets a heart attack which drastically slows him down), or get out of the game.
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in that case, its just a good survivor vs a bad killer. probably playing a low tier killer. probably not running perks that are strong. probably coldwind. a lot of factors come into play.
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In a way, yes. We've faced high tier killers and he ran them around. Instead of 100% I'd now instead say 75%-90% of the games he's won against alright-good killers. 100% against bad killers. He and I consider a facecamper at the end as a win even though I rescue him whenever me and him join forces (most of the time).
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I agree, I think they did a pretty good job so far.
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Lel.
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@Spicybarbecue we try to tell people the counter-play but you guys never listen, maybe if you didn’t dc every time you could learn his/her counter play.
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