Basekit BT should provide you with Mettle Of Man's Endurance
There should be no reason that you're completely denied of perks like DH and off the record because you were hit as soon as you got unhooked. The anti camp feature made proxy camping and tunneling 10 times worse. So like I said in the title basekit bt should just completely ignore a hit and not cause deep wounds. But I would want it to be reduced to 7 seconds and remove the unhooked survivors collision for the duration. Yes, this would just be another bandaid fix to some core issues but at least you would actually be able to used the perks you equipped.
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People that know what they are doing when tunneling will abuse the fact a endurance hit prevents dead hard from working plus many other perks. Really irritating.
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I'd prefer, if they didn't have collision. That way they couldn't bodyblock either.
Edit: There is no anti camp feature. It's an anti FACE camp mechanic. It's not supposed to do anything against proxy camping. It also isn't really a surprise that killers instead of face camping will now proxy camp-
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I don't think making endurance stackable is good idea. It would create a lot issues.
But however, i agree with you about basekit BT. It should make survivor lose colision for 10 seconds with haste effect. So with this way, you can't use it for bodyblock to protect your teammate. Also killer can't bodyblock your way and hit you when time is out. And another good thing, you can actually use OtR now.
That's one of the best ideas from community but i know never gonna happen. Because i doubt devs will listen us.
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idk why they still aren't changing it to give no collision and hitbox for the duration instead, would solve so many issues regarding it.
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I never complained about the anti camp feature tho? I just said that it made tunneling worse because killers can no longer confirm kills by being in a hooked survivors face now they just tunnel out.
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I don't want endurance to be used multiple times again I just want base time bt to not cause deep wounds so you can actually use one of the anti tunneling perks to help you with tunneling...
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Both base kit BT and removal of hook grabs are anti camping features they added specifically and intentionally.
There's an AFC mechanic that fills a progress bar if the killer is too close, sure. But BT works exactly the same even if the killer proxy camps.
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Not to rain on the parade, but doesn't removing collision create all kinds of problems? Survivors clipping inside one another makes it impossible to control who gets hit, tunneling or not.
What happens when the collisions come back and you're inside one another? Usually bodies are forced apart, and this can have all kinds of weird effects like getting sprung in the air, getting pushed into invalid terrain and getting stuck, maybe even dropping out of the map.
Removing collision seems like a bad solution to me with a lot of potential for weird unintended side effects.
My personal feeling on the MoM idea is its kinda a non issue. If the killer wants to tunnel you, a smart killer will wait out the timer and hit you when it's gone. This is the far more sensible thing to do, so what a killer will do most of the time is hit the survivor unhooking as they unhook for pressure, then follow you off hook and wait out BT. The MoM suggestion and the body blocking suggestion will very rarely do anything to prevent this happening... but what it will do is prevent a killer who has realised you have OTR or DH, who now immediately hits you to counter your perk. It doesn't make sense to me to punish a killer for having good sense to counter your perks.
The point of DH and OTR is to give the survivor more time to make a resource. If you get to a pallet/window and they hit you before BT is gone, you already made a loop, so the value has already been acquired, wounded or not. If the killer instant hits you, you have the boost to run to a resource with, again, value acquired.
If you want to stop camping and tunneling, the game needs a far greater change to make not doing it preferable.
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The basekit BT already makes you a less desirable target after unhooking, unless you make it so. If the killer hits you in the 10 seconds so you can't use any other Endurance perk, you still have 10 seconds of free haste + the hit bonus speed to get the hell out of there to a safe loop.
"There should be no reason that you're completely denied of perks like DH and off the record" Changing it would only make more people weaponize the base BT even more instead of using it as what it is: A help so you make it to a safe loop even if the killer decide to go for you again. In other words, there is plenty of reasons to not do it. The same with making the survivor "lose collision".
So, how about no? What if we start developing some game sense and stop pretending for the game to cover every single mistake we make in a match, instead?
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Not to rain on the parade, but doesn't removing collision create all kinds of problems? Survivors clipping inside one another makes it impossible to control who gets hit, tunneling or not.
Yes that's the point. Having collision not only allows freshly unhooked survivors to be tunneled straight off the hook and bypass any other endurance effect, but it also allows the killer to bodyblock them, or for them to body block the killer. Depending on the intent and context, these are both problems.
The survivor loses the opportunity to escape and avoid getting tunneled out immediately, meanwhile non-tunnelling killer loses the opportunity to not tunnel and go for the unhooker. In both cases there is no benefit for the unhooked survivor to tank the hit for their unhooker, either the survivor is being cheated out of their anti-tunnel mechanism, or the killer is being cheated out of the ability to play fair, forcing them to tunnel. There should not be 'control' over who gets hit, in all cases it should be the unhooker who gets hit.
Survivors already lose collision in some circumstances. When a survivor is injured, they lose collision for a few seconds so the killer cant block a survivor in a dead end and score a double hit entirely free. Meanwhile some killers lose collision as part of their power.
A survivor losing collision after an unhook wouldn't be too different to a survivor losing collision after being hit. It's a brief window where the survivor is the most vulnerable and can use the lack of collision to avoid unfair blocking when they have no control over their circumstances.
Instead of 10 seconds of endurance, I'd prefer 6 seconds of no-collision. With BT being changed to 9 seconds of endurance after regaining collision so it still protects for 15 seconds.
There might be a conflict between losing collision and other survivors being able to heal them, so potentially the survivor taking any action (heal, sabo, etc.) or being subjected to an action (healed by another survivor) ends the period of non-collision.
Losing collision is a far better solution than 'stacking endurance', which would allow survivors to abuse it by scoring multiple free hits along with free speed boosts. That's not possible with non-collision as no hit = no speed boost, but also no attack cooldown on the killer side.
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The problem lies in that losing collision in this game means the survivor can still be hit. The examples of losing collision on hit or in killer power rely entirely on hit and power use cooldowns and animation locks to prevent multiple hits in a row, not lack of collision.
You also lose collision while falling from a second story. If you drop onto any other player the game will let you occupy the exact same place until one of you moves, for example. If the players are a survivor and the killer, the killer can swing and injure or down the survivor even with no collision, because 'no collision' is different from 'ignores a hit' like, say, MoM does.
And here lies the real problem with the 'no collision' idea: it will be more annoying to the killer in them long run. Because what it opens up is the unhooked survivor (with no collision) will be phased through by the killer to get to the unhooker. Because of killer visibility, were already know the unhooked will disappear from killer vision while still in front of the killer. So the killer sees a clear shot at the unhooker, but in reality the unhooked survivor with no collision is standing inside, just just in front of, the killer. And because they aren't *immune* the unhooker still takes the hit instead. But now the killer can't even see the body block.
The 'no collision' idea solves nothing, but makes it even more annoying, and possibly more effective, to body block. The only way around this would be to guarantee the unhooked both no collision and *completely immunity and invulnerability* during that window. Which may not even work because the game allows characters to clip indefinitely until their hit boxes are finally separated by the players. Two survivors who stand still will permanently be clipping, and frustrating for a killer who can't clearly hit the intended target. It's harder to coordinate, but running survivors can do this too.
So, for example, a survivor being unhooked with OTR might clip into the unhooker in a corner. They can clip together with the unhooked slightly outside to tank the hit while they heal up, with no way to get to unhooker. The killer could stand there looking at the pair knowing he can only be forced to hit the unhooked survivor, which is a lose-lose for the killer. The killer either hits endurance (body block) or they get to heal up, which is still an extra health state. That sounds awful, and would be entirely possible with current game mechanics if this solution were actually implemented.
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You realise you've just argued a technicality when we in fact agree?
Give no collision AND no hit detection. Problem solved.
The killer should phase through the unhooked survivor, and hit the unhooker. However you call the process to get to that point makes no difference.
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You know what fair point. Well argued, I don't really object ro anything here.
I'm not convinced it's enough of a problem myself to warrant changes, as personally I've very rarely come across scenarios where it was body blocking specifically that got me as survivor/helped me as Killer, instead of just being the result of tunneling in general... if anyone got body blocked successfully, chances the survivor wasn't making safety anyway.
Longer BT endurance actually addresses that.
Other than that... I have no reason to refute any of your logic here tbh. 😏
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Fully agreed on it not giving Deep Wounds. There's no real reason not to, allowing an anti-tunnel perk (or just other source of Endurance like Dead Hard) to work in tandem with the basekit system instead of being cancelled out by it would allow anti-tunnel perks to be more potent, and therefore more effective at preventing tunnelling.
The only potential concern is bodyblocking, and eh... I'm not bothered, personally. If survivors want to throw so they can be tunnelled by the killer (while occupying two survivors at once, as the person who unhooked them is still there and accounted for), that's fine by me. You'd just wait out the basekit BT and hit them, either for the down or to get through them if they have OTR. Minor annoyance at worst.
As for losing collision, I don't hate it, but I also feel like it wouldn't be necessary if we implement the above change.
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That's fine, but I actually don't think the invincibility is a good idea personally.
And usually when I bring it up, people don't actually want that either.
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