New Player Blues!
I recently introduced my Brother and his partner to the game. Bigging it up saying how great it was. First match with them and we faced the Executioner who proceeded to wipe the whole team out in about 90 seconds!
be nice to see some kind of mechanic that allows new players an ease into the game.
I’m hoping he gives it another go but can see why it’s off putting!
Just venting here I guess :)
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mmr totally works perfectly and isnt a completely useless and busted system, right guys?
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Game needs bot killers for practice matches so survivors can try out basic mechanics and perks.
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Just make them aware that the learning curve might be a little rough compared to many other games.
Also make clear that killer is the power role and therefore it is unlikely they will escape very often. If they lower their expactations, they wont find it that frustrating anymore.
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"The power role" has become synonymous with "i'm entitled and supposed to win most of the time because i want to". No, i don't think that 80% of the participants of a match should just expect to lose because "well this is Dbd you're supposed to lose it's a dying-simulator" - no it's not, never has been and never will. Killer is expected to be the harder role, for the tough people who can handle the pressure, anything else doesn't make sense if you want this game to live. I play killer exclusively nowadays (came back after 6 months break) because it has become a walk in the park and is actually more chill than survivor if you're not playing in an experienced 4man on comms.
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DBD is like Counter Strike. It's an easy enough game to understand the idea and start playing... but the moment you go against other players, you're instantly met with a huge gulf in map knowledge, game awareness and skill.
If you're someone who likes to be really chill and not serious in games, and want to win without much effort (i.e. the Explorer Mode type players), the new survivor experience is awful. If you're someone who enjoys being challenged, and has a thirst for learning deep and complicated mechanics, the new player experience is great imo. Killers are actually scary when you're new, and you feel this constant sense of dread whenever you hear the TR.
Honestly I never minded being camped or tunneled when I started playing, because I was just swallowing the atmosphere, and to this day few things give me a rush as much as committing to opening a gate and praying the killer doesn't come back check before you can get the gate open.
I guess if you're a Soulsborne type player who scoffed at summons, coop, bleed builds, stagger builds, and all forms of busted magic attacks in Elden Ring, you'll probably be fine in DBD.
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Was it a pyramid head with no build and a ttv?
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Sounds like the first match I had. Went in and got rolled. The difference is I like pvp games and just laughed about it and tried to analyze what I could do better. I am still learning and having fun doing it.
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The game could use some more fleshed out tutorials. The ones that we have are a bit too simple. It would also help, if they introduced some killer bots. PvE is a good chance to learn at least how the game works. It could even reward them with a few BP (maybe 50% normal BP gain).
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Dont get me wrong. I agree with you on every word you say, and i think it absolutly should not be the way it is right now, but these are new players and they might be a little bit confused or upset why they always loose, even against other biginner killers. So i think it is a good idea to prepare them for very one-sided matches.
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First mistake: playing DBD
Second mistake: inviting others to play DBD
🙃of course
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I got most of my fun from my early days playing the game from being terrified out of my wits. Nobody should expect to survive any of their first games. But yeah, ideally the game would only match new players with other new players, but I don't think DBD has a big or active enough player base.
It's probably still better for new players to queue up with other new players (or at least to Solo Q). I think the MMR system goes by the strongest players on the team and matches the Killer accordingly.
Maybe an idea to start a new account if you can so you can play with newer players and hopefully get newer Killers?
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the problem is that dbd should be more """""kind"""""" towards new players. At Christmas I convinced my Fortnite friends to play dbd for the first time... after 3 days (about 15 - 20 games) they literally ran away... not from the killer, but from DBD 🤣🤣🤣
It was stressful for me too... I had to explain everything because everything was new to them. 30 killers and related powers, a lots of perks, different maps, even if everyone says DBD is a casual game, that's not true at all.
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Killers are actually scary when you're new, and you feel this constant sense of dread whenever you hear the TR.
I remember my very first match in Dead by Daylight: it was against a Huntress on the old version of Azarov's Resting Place, and I was terrified. Huntress is very scary when you are a new player, and the horror atmosphere was far better back then.
After some trials I went back to the Main Menu, listened to this banger:
And switched to killer, for my first trial as my beloved Old Freddy. From there it begins the process of learning everything that can be learned about the game and its mechanics.
Unfortunately the new player experience seems to be really bad these days, especially because of MMR. I wish everyone had a blast with their first trials, as I did back then.
PS: Why scoff at bleed builds in Elden Ring if instead you can use them?
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Yeah killers can be frightful presence if you are new. I was also afraid of killers when I was new.
Btw, please don't scoff at magic. I loved using them in Soulsborne games.
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I suppose it's fair to say there is the elephant in the room aye that learning killer powers/perks is extremely important for survivors, and doing that first handed as a killer is FAAAAAAR easier... your killer knowledge is invaluable when playing survivor... I've played with survivors mains who have like 3 years of experience on me, and half the time I call out a perk and they have no idea what I'm talking about xD
I mean, I myself rather enjoyed my new player life back in May last year... and that was me joining at the same point Skull Merchant came into the game... on reflection maybe I'm actually a closet psychopath and never realised it... xD
P.S. Bleed builds are filthy overpowered in ER. I made the fatal mistake of playing ER like I did in Dark Souls, and made a non-bleed dex build because I like those types of weapons... if you've ever made a non-bleed dex build in Elden Ring, well... you'll know why that's funny. 😅
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I remember hating GhostFace when I started. The number of times he made me jump out of skin just by sticking his big face out next to me when I wasn't looking, only for me to pan the camera and see him at the exact moment as the stalk popped... made me nearly drop my controller and feel like a complete idiot a few times xD
It's all good, I'm just playing man, the true beauty of the Soulsborne game is every player plays their own game, and has a completely unique experience of what is hard/easy that is exclusive to them based on their decisions and their style of play. But as a long time dex build/dodge player (I learned Dark Souls without ever blocking... which is insane to me now...) I jest at having a crusader like fervour elevating dex builds above all others xD
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And vice-versa, of course. Playing as survivor is extremely important if you want to improve as killer, because you'll have a better understanding of their perks, strategies and the multiple ways they can approach the game. Overall, DBD as an experience really shines when you play both sides, even if you play one of them slightly more than the other.
and that was me joining at the same point Skull Merchant came into the game... on reflection maybe I'm actually a closet psychopath and never realised it... xD
Oh trust me, I understand how that is. I joined around the time Legion first released.
P.S: I just saw that everyone was calling Rivers of Blood overpowered and I immediately decided I wanted that weapon. Although I changed it for the Hand of Malenia when I got it.
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Ghostface still jumpascares me xD
Yes. Soulsborne games' attraction is that thing as you said. Having own playstyle. Playing Elden Ring, I am attracted to the scale of Meteorite of Astel...And it became my forum name.
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This is also a true statement, I suppose the biggest issue for new players now, is the sheer amount of content to learn. Like all the new map configurations, all the different killers powers, perk combos, add-ons... as well your own damn builds, and where to even start... I literally told a friend of mine "Just play Feng Min... she has 3 perks that are decent to get going with if you're new".
Oh trust me, I understand how that is. I joined around the time Legion first released.
I heard the legend of OG Legion... there are a few points in DBD history where whenever anyone says "Bring back old DBD", you have to wonder... are you remembering right? I think your brain may have blotted out parts of your memory to protect you? xD
P.S: I just saw that everyone was calling Rivers of Blood overpowered and I immediately decided I wanted that weapon. Although I changed it for the Hand of Malenia when I got it.
Malenia straight up my favourite boss in the entire Soulsborne series... and that's a harsh competition. As a dex/dodge build, it was the most fair and rewarding fight of the whole series of games. A lot of people hate her, and I understand why, but for my playstyle Malenia was the ultimate skill test that demanded true mastery of her moveset to win. Ice pots can get stuffed ^^
Although technically a bleed weapon, bleed is low on HoM... and legit is one of my favourite weapons in the game... I used to help people vs. Elden Beast and cosplay as her often ^^
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I think MMR also plays a part on that. With the system being the way it is, a new player can be sent to play against opponents who are clearly above their skill level. There is a chance someone's initial experience won't be as beginner-friendly as it used to be. Ranks were not perfect, but they certainly did a better job than MMR does, across all levels.
I heard the legend of OG Legion... there are a few points in DBD history where whenever anyone says "Bring back old DBD", you have to wonder... are you remembering right? I think your brain may have blotted out parts of your memory to protect you? xD
Well, I would 100% support bringing back the Old DBD, but there are exceptions. While I do believe it was overall a better game, you will never see me asking for Old Legion to return. Nor the original Mettle of Man.
Malenia straight up my favourite boss in the entire Soulsborne series... and that's a harsh competition. As a dex/dodge build, it was the most fair and rewarding fight of the whole series of games. A lot of people hate her, and I understand why, but for my playstyle Malenia was the ultimate skill test that demanded true mastery of her moveset to win. Ice pots can get stuffed ^^
My favorite boss in the series is Darkeater Midir from Dark Souls 3. Because that is a real dragon.
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Why is loss (even a crushing one) something to be avoided at all costs or so jarring as to ruin the experience?
I guess adversity, even minor adversity, really does reveal someone's true character.
"You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting".
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Why did you play with him? Did you NOT think the game would round up mmr towards you? Was your plan to bully baby players by queing with a brand new player, because clearly the game wouldn't allow you to do that so easily.
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What do you mean? Can you elaborate?
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Many people have enough adversity in their life that they also don't need it in the form of video games. There's no pride to be found in what types of entertainment you find appealing.
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If somebody doesn't want adversity in their games, they should probably avoid PVP games. Adversity is kinda the whole point.
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Competition and variety (humans offer a lot more playstyles than computer opponents) are the point, but those are much different than adversity.
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One thing I've learned about introducing people to this game:
Don't hype it up. Because in my experience w/ the friends I've tried to get into this game, they've all gotten overwhelmed or completely dunked on repeatedly, to the point they just want to play something else. This game isn't friendly at all to new players which is why I tell everyone new, to just stay away now.
Over 230 perks, 33+ killers all with different powers, a garbage bloodweb system that is just tedious & requires grinding, a matchmaking system that is overly flawed w/ 'MMR', etc. Its not a surprise new player retention is very low.
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If they were grouped with you, that's why. The person with the highest mmr in the group heavily influences the matching. It's hard to get new people into the game if you'll be playing with them for the first few weeks. The reason this is the case is to prevent high mmr players from grouping with a new account to just to completely demolish brand new killers. They'd essentially have to play on their own together until their mmr has some adjustments as they learn. Once they get some of the basics down, then you could occasionally group up with them to get a feel of the MMR waters with them. Grouping together on day one will likely stress them out of even wanting to play because they are getting dropped smack dab into a battlefield of experienced players.
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And yet, it's equally demoralizing to be functionally banned from playing with a friend when you need them most.
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Losing is absolutely fine, that's how you learn.
But people don't really learn anything from a swift, brutal curbstomping. All you get from that is demoralization. And that's often what we see, which is a problem.
Just last night I played a match where I was up against four survs who couldn't have had more than 20 hours in the game (I have like 4K). A couple of them it felt like it could have been their first game ever. I could have ended the match in 2-3 minutes, as a Legion. But I tried to give them something in the way of experience, shaking my head at them when they tried stupid things, trying to direct them a little bit.
It was tedious as hell (though at least I got some BP) and I ended up killing a couple of them, but I don't think it would have benefitted anyone to just annihilate them.
But matchups that lopsided shouldn't ever happen. Mismatches are going to happen because MMR can't be perfect and still keep the game moving along, but there should be some hard limits to how disparate the experience of players can be.
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Oh I agree it sucks, lol. Just explaining why they got the beat down. I want to get friends into dbd, but I'd never be able to play with them without them getting demoralized.
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If you're ever introducing new players, always start with custom matches.
It's horrible being slaughtered when you don't know what's going on, don't know how to do anything or find your way around, and can't hit skillchecks.
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I can empathize a lot with you, OP. If you play this game a lot and try to introduce friends, they are matched up to you, and they will likely get stomped, and/or tunneled out as a weak link. I watched the same thing happen trying to introduce friends of mine to the game and there's not really much you can do unless you have 5 people and want to mess around in custom games.
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Oh for crying out loud, if a game is triggering to real life issues then you need to deal with your real life issues and play the game afterwards.
As harsh as it sounds, no game tutorial can fix someone’s perpetual self deprecating victimhood. That needs to be fixed outside of the game.
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You don't need 5 people for custom games.
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Holy lack of empathy.
Might be news to you, but people PLAY GAMES TO HAVE FUN!
There's no enjoyment in having a miserable experience whilst trying to learn a new game. There's no enjoyment in having agency removed.
If you can't see how that's massively unappealing to the average person, who likely already feels that way in their daily life, then open your eyes.
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As harsh as it sounds, no game tutorial can fix someone’s perpetual self deprecating victimhood. That needs to be fixed outside of the game.You're making so many massive assumptions about people. In your first post you say:
I guess adversity, even minor adversity, really does reveal someone's true character."You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting".The idea that a video game is revealing people's character is absurd. DbD is a stressful game, more so because of the lack of a tutorial.
Now there is nothing wrong with enjoying a game because it is stressful, its one of the things I find appealing about the game. But there is nothing good about it either. It's just an entertainment choice, not a revealer of character.
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You can essentially do a 1v1 to show off some of the killers and abilities.
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All that happened is some new players lost at a game that's it.
To come back and say people having adversity in their lives shouldn't have to face it in a game is just grossly melodramatic. I tell you the overreaction of this community to game mechanics is far more off putting than any game mechanics could possibly be.
Its a game. Its not lacking empathy to understand that a game has no obligation to help someone with their personal problems.
What you are equating here to a miserable time is simply losing. If you can't have fun simply because you lose, then games in general aren't for you because guess what...
You are going to lose a lot.
Especially when starting out, but that's how we learn, or at least that's how those who improve and succeed learn.
I point this out and the counter point raised is "people have enough hardship in their lives so games shouldn't be hard." As if a game has an obligation to take your personal hardship into account. It doesn't... it really doesn't.
If life is so hard that even losing a game is too much to handle then that's not a game problem. The best thing to do there is stop playing games and make some changes to one's life so that games can be without personal hang ups ruining the fun.
You chime in to say I lack empathy for pointing this out, but the problem here is you're equating loss with misery.
The "average person" doesn't tend to equate loss with misery. In fact many people can play games without any sense of misery, loss or otherwise. These kind of players are the most fun to play with, be it computer games, boardgames or sports. The ones who can be cheerful even if its not going well, rather than those who are just miserable because its hard. Because in the end its only a game.
Can the game be hard for new players, sure, but that doesn't make it miserable. Its only miserable for those who get miserable over loss.
One of the harshest truths in life is if you never lose you never learn. Furthermore being unable to learn from loss breeds perpetual losers.
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YMMV but I've found that if you want to introduce a friend to the game in customs you need 5 otherwise the games just aren't that interesting and then the fun only comes from messing around in the voice call.
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You can't very well learn when your match is over on five seconds because the Killer saw you were new and targeted you lol.
No, the new player experience is absolutely miserable. You are thrust into a game with no real instruction, into an extremely toxic community in a game where you have NO agency if you're new.
You equating some emotional weakness to DBD reveals both your inherent biases and your age, respectfully. You sound like my grandfather telling me, "Just work hard, you'll be able to support yourself, what do you mean you hate your job? What do you mean your miserable? Your life is great, these kids today don't get to feel miserable, they have no reason to."
You view anyone unwilling to participate as weak-minded, which is not only wrong but extremely insulting.
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"No, the new player experience is absolutely miserable. You are thrust into a game with no real instruction, into an extremely toxic community in a game where you have NO agency if you're new."
I think you need to find a new game it's becoming more and more obvious that you seem to just hate DBD.
Furthermore, again you equate losing a game to real life struggles as if they are equivalent. Hating your job and being miserable in life is not the same as losing a game of DBD. Your inability to separate these real stressors brought on by real life from make believe ones brought on by a game is very telling.
You take this too seriously and it gives you a very unhealthy mindset about playing and other players. The ageism displayed in your reply is evidence of this.
Its not mental weakness to recognize that you are getting upset over a game and walking away till you can play without getting upset, in fact that is mental fortitude simply because its self reflective and self improving. You should try it sometime.
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