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What is Public Opinion on Skull Merchant?
Comments
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During chases you're most definitely going to need to put a drone at a window or a pallet, I was mostly referring to Skull Merchants who only use their drones during chases or only place them directly on generators which is a common mistake that Skull Merchants make.
Skull Merchant's trap playstyle is pretty respectable to me because you actually have to keep in mind of the drone's range, tiles or buildings that survivors are likely going to commit to such as the main building. In the Killer Shack you can actually place a drone on the side of the entrance area (such as next to one of the lockers) and survivors will not see it coming because it's hidden from their line of sight.
Obviously all Skull Merchants are going to drop a drone in chase though because that's pretty much required and is the right thing to do during chases because while it does force a survivor out of the loop, there's the chance they may fall in a drone's radius allowing for mindgame opportunities.
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....so you just play her exactly like how they described.
Survivor runs to loop. Drone goes up.
Survivor stays? They die.
Survivor leaves? They die.
Quite engaging and fun gameplay. Certainly the pinnacle of design.
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Honestly people need to stop with the whole "delete Skull Merchant and refund everyone". It is annoying and it doesn't contribute to the discussion.
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You love trying to come at me and playing dumb while doing it omg lol
So I'm not allowed to trap certain areas unless there's no survivors there and if I chase a survivor I must do it purely as an M1 killer if I have no web set up?
Or
Do I set up the web up as I chase a survivor if they're running to places where it would be convenient for me to trap regardless of if I was chasing someone at the moment anyways?
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Thank you this was my point. Its not like I'm going to give up on creating a potentially lethal web just because I have to do it during a chase or only interact with survivors after I have a web set up.
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I am not criticising you, except for playing her exactly how they described and saying otherwise.
It's ultimately not the players fault that such boring and unskillful gameplay is the most effective way to play her. That's why I pushed for a full rework, because you can't just take her problematic aspects away.
She's always gonna be really good at holding gens and now she's also good at anti-loop brainrot. Knight is the same way, minus the gens and more emphasis on chase.
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Best comment regarding the new Hip Swing Sandy that I have read here in the forum. Once the majority has learned how to effectively deal with an SM, she is anything but strong. Unfortunately, many people still blindly hate her because of her past as a 3 gen monster. I can name killers that are really boring to go against in Solo Q, at least in my experience (e.g. Wraith, Knight, Legion, PH...)
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would
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I feel as though people have a lot of anger toward her because of what she used to be. If SM were released at launch as what she is now, she wouldn’t be as hated. Same reason I still hate Legion and always will is because of old 2018 Frank’s Mix Tape Legion. Some people will hold on to what they used to be and still despise them and I can’t blame people for that.
People DC at the sheer sight of her and don’t try even though she is very beatable. I understand she’s “Status Effect: The Killer” and still not fun to face but neither is like 70% of the killer roster. I don’t like playing against her either but she ain’t going nowhere nor is she probably getting another rework anytime soon :/
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I honestly have that with Legion.
He is to me and to you what Skull Merchant is for most players. No matter what is done, the killer will always be hated.
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She is literally the same as she was before. Just go next, luckily not THAT many people play her. And your teammates are far less likely to hold you hostage against her.
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If you are actually this downbad to actually quit dbd over the most boring/annoying killer in the game, then thats sad.
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I recently bought Skull merchant and I've seen an average of 2 DC per match
honestly crazy it might be just mmr but I still understand why it is so frustrating to play agains her
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overbuffed, drones should have an increased cooldown, so she can only use on loops instead of spamming to protect gens
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Coming from someone who just parrots what dbd youtubers say and has never formed an opinion of their own I have to laugh
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I genuienly think it is an MMR issue with new/mid level survivors vs SM if this is true because I get DCs literally 1/10 matches and typically its when I down them quicker than they'd have liked. But can't say in the last month of me playing her I've gotten a single person Dcing once they know its a Skull Merchant
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I am sorry but we tried way to many SM Custom games to know that there is no legit counter play besides the obvious ones. Most of her so called counter plays like stoping during chase only work in very niche situations. Going with the rotation is also not viable since she can swap or simply chase in a different direction.
The only counter play is to work as a team and rush the gens. SWF coms are your best bet - calling out the upcoming chase area and disable drones, but even that is short lived.
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It's mostly a joke (obviously just deleting content is a non-starter), but because she can't be fixed without fundamentally overhauling her, and that depth of change is not something BHVR has shown a willingness to do in any case. There are a few killers in this category (Nurse, Legion come to mind), but while others are too weak or too strong, SM is just completely insufferable to play as or against. It's DBD at its least fun.
By far the worst designed killer in DBD history, and I'm not sure that there is a useful discussion to have about her that doesn't start and end with "take her back to the drawing board".
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But there is a difference between suggesting an overhaul and suggesting a removal. BHVR will never remove a character that people paid for and then refund everyone, that is simply unreasonable.
The most extreme thing that can happen to Skull Merchant is the Freddy treatment. And while his rework was the worst change ever made to this game, at least in my honest opinion, maybe SM would be luckier than the Nightmare was. Or maybe not.
However, asking for a character to be removed from the game won't take us anywhere.
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In this case. the overhaul would effectively be a removal of her current gameplay.
So, basically exactly what happened with Freddy, Doctor and Legion.
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I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting or expecting that she be deleted. Like I said earlier, just deleting content is a non-starter, and I think just about everyone realizes that. It's hyperbolic rhetoric to express their displeasure with an irredeemable killer.
If BHVR were willing to take such an extreme measure, odds are Nurse would have been long ago, if nothing else but to save themselves from having to balance around her constantly. Or they would have taken all the Stranger Things content when Netflix pulled their license. But you can't just take content away.
But if it were to be done, you'd need a relatively equivalent exchange that would replace the removed content with something similar but better (like replacing imitation Freddy with actual Freddy, which would be glorious).
For SM, I'd advocate totally gutting her and replacing her power with an entirely new one. Not tweaking, replacing. Like bye bye drones altogether.
But they won't, she'll just fade into obscurity on the island of misfit killers no one uses or cares for with the Twins, only to be a novelty that makes people say "OMG, what is that?" when they see her once every 6-8 months.
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Not sure on that one. Skull Merchant is the first Killer where I actually think that they should have killswitched her, reworked her completely and bring her back with the option to refund if someone does not like her anymore.
IMO she even trumps old Legion when it comes to the worst addition to the game.
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There is something to be said about an annoying amount of people asking for a feature to be removed.
Sure, it's not exactly constructive criticism, but even shallow, emotionally-charged feedback can be constructive.
It is the responsibility of no one on this forum to find solutions to the game's problems, and while I think we can all agree that problem solvers are more helpful than complainers, the least anyone can do is express their opinion on the state of play.
"Rework X" doesn't convey the same thing as "Remove X." It is important to consider the implications in that distinction.
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This is all true however another reason for the hate, IMO, is that a lot of people play her because they know she is hated and also because of her crazy win rate which is partially due to people not knowing her counterplay but also the crazy high DC/quit rate against her. I have a very low opinion of Skull Merchant and anyone who plays her regularly.
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Ok, I expressed myself very poorly on this one. I'll try to explain better what I meant to say.
It is not that I think Skull Merchant doesn't need changes, because I think she does. I don't like full reworks for obvious reasons, but there are always exceptions and this killer may very well be one of them. Maybe it would make her better, unlike Freddy.
So it isn't a possible "removal of gameplay" that I am worried about. That can happen and it should happen in her case.
However, removing a character the same way that Common and Uncommon map offerings were removed from the Bloodweb is not something that is likely to happen. And I think that saying "delete her" and nothing else ends up hurting the discussion instead of providing a constructive debate.
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she is overhated and very very beatable, but she is also just kinda boring. like there is so little to actively enjoy when facing her, as it feels super cheesy doing well in chase but getting scanned and getting injured for pretty much nothing. it's just like... okay. that was lame.
i'm spitballing slop ideas, but personally, I wanna see a version of her that brings back the active zone (without lockon, without automatic clawtraps upon disarming, without instant manual activation, all the 3gen garbo, etc), but the active zone traps people inside.
then clawtrap could be an active application, something you need to hit people within drone radius' for. maybe charging up the radar lets the clawtrap shock people in LOS, for a stun/slow/whatever. idk, she just needs abilities that she has to press buttons for, rather than this automatic garbage she has now.
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HOLY BASED.
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Negative unfortunately because of lack of survivor skill.
If you learn how to verse her she can be very fun both to play and verse. She has a low skill floor but a borderline infinite skill cieling.
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overall disliked I'd say.
Last time I played her for my daily, it took 3 games because all the survivors would disconnect/give up instantly.
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If you think new SM is anywhere close to being as bad as OG legion you're either blinded by the SM hate bandwagon or completely forgotten how absolutely awful legion was.
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Uhhhh, yeah, no she's just as bad.
She has the EXACT same issues, which is more than a little amusing.
At least the Legion mains kinda knew and wanted him changed, nobody really thought he should stay as is and nobody claimed he was a "infinite skill ceiling killer". Unlike a lot of the DM players
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You can't moonwalk to guarantee a down, survivors can actually do something.
Survivors have so much they can do but no one does it because they don't fully understand how her power works
- Standing still/crouch walking for literally ~0.3s waiting for the scan lines to pass
- Avoiding drones outside of chase to make your chases longer and less 2 tappable
- Standing still/crouchwalking to force an M1 for more distance while healthy
- Standing under a drone for 0.3s to make it raise and remove its scan lines
- Pathing back into the drone so she's forced to walk under it and raise it
- Using vaults (which are her best counter similar to bubba, the main reason I run bam almost every game)
- Camping pallets
- Forcing pallet 50/50s similar to other predrop killers like clown and bubba
- Chaining loops with walls
- Keeping track of where she's been to run to non-droned locations
- Predicting her movement speed bonuses looking at the UI and seeing whos claw trapped
- Disabling drones to frequently ran locations
- NOT disabling certain drones so they become more predictable with visable scan lines
- Taking hits
- W keying
- Predicting laser tags/scan techs
- Running up to badly placed drones where the scan lines move slower
- Using main buildings
- Using map specific tiles/structures that have an absurd amount of LOS blockers that I would not be able to list all of (yamaoka gyms as example)
- Exhaustion perks extend chases massively (overcome my beloved)
Don't get me wrong, she isn't perfect, but I wouldn't say badly designed either.
Also if you saw and knew what SM is capable of then you would probably agree she has a borderline infinite skill ceiling. You can scan through almost every hole that slinger can shoot through so there's always a way to improve your scanning efficiency. You probably just think her ceiling is low because of how low her skill floor is, and that there is VERY few actual good SM players.
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The thirst trap killer deserves all of the hate she gets.
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Lots of words to say the same thing.
Place power on loop.
Survivor leaves? They get hit and die.
Survivor stays? They die.
Survivors doing gens?
Place power on gen.
Hold 3-gen.
Excellent gameplay. She's both old Legion and WORSE. At least Legion matches were over fast. Here we have a Killer that WILL down you, regardless of your skill; who offers one, that's right, ONE whole counterplay, hold W. It's not really a counterplay, since she has Haste, UD and Tracking, but you die a little later so wooooooo. That's the EXACT same thing as old Legion.
Add on top of that, she can still hold 3-gens. Awesome!
She's a borderline skill-absent Killer. A true defintion of anti-loop brainrot and a perfect epitome of what a Killer should not be. Unengaging for all parties. Her best case scenario is a complete redesign ala Freddy.
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Your issue is that you're viewing it in complete black and white and nothing else.
What if when I run away from the loop I have a chained window? No hit
What if when I stay I win pallet 50/50s? No hit
If we're going off when you WILL down someone, then every killer in the game doesn't have counterplay since you will eventually go down against any killer.
If you're going down quickly in every chase against SM, then that sounds like a skill issue tbh. You should try not getting scanned for a starters.
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The difference between old Legion and SM is that Legion was 100% guaranteed a three hit down with Frank’s Mix Tape with zero input from the survivor. All Legion did was stab, stab, fatigue, wait 10 seconds, the stab again and down. And there was zero counterplay because Legion could vault pallets and windows and could whiff a swing but still be in their power.
SM is a glorified M1 killer with a bloated base-kit due to all the status effects, but it’s not a guaranteed hit because you still have pallets and windows to work with and can chain together strong tiles. You have options in a chase. Yeah if she keeps setting up drones then you’re going to eventually get a claw trap, get hindered, and go down but isn’t that the point of the killer’s power that you’re supposed to eventually go down? And someone else also has the ability to hinder you and force you to drop pallets? Clown.
I’m not a SM defender, she’s not fun but she is far from a 100% “guaranteed hit” nor is she as free of a down as 2018 Legion.
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Your definition of DM counterplay is essentially the same as telling people in 2018 to just stun or locker juke the Legion.
She has Haste, Undetectable, Tracking and Hindered. She cannot be looped, you MUST hold W or die. Holding W only prolongs the inevitable, which is why Overcome is genuinely S-tier against her.
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Okay, so bad RNG that doesn't happen much anymore.
A pallet 50/50 versus a Haste amped SM with no red stain is hardly a 50/50. It's more a 90/10.
"Don't get scanned" = "Wait out DH 5HEAD"
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Re: "Survivors play against her mindlessly" 100% agree!!
I am still surprised how many times surv get randomly scanned/injured when I am all the way across the map!
She's a great killer to learn the macro game fundamentals from at higher MMR. You'd need to really keep track of when drones get hacked, where surv will want to be (high traffic areas), managing terror radius distance with 8sec undetectable and knowing when to break off chase.
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So is she not supposed to have some sort of a tool to deal with loops and catch survivors and some point in time during chase? Are you supposed to loop her for the entire game?
And 60% of the killer roster cannot be conventionally looped. You hold W against Clown, Pyramid Head, Artist, so why are people so feral over SM when other killers do the exact same thing as her and do it better than she does…
I’m with you, she’s annoying to face and she needs some sort of a rework but people overblow how bad she is due to how bad she was when she launched.
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Clown isn't hold W, he's drop pallet. He also gets a pass because he existed when it wasn't oversaturated.
PH can be juked consistently and irregardless of any external factor. His power is also a skill shot.
Artist has the same issue, but she CAN skill shot and cross map. You can definitely see people complain about her just putting crows down at a loop, but there's STILL jukes you can do.
DM can't be juked. Her power is an AoE. There is no skillful interaction there, no skill shots. If you place the power down, you win that loop. That's it. Maybe if you controlled the Drone, but you don't.
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Standing still 0,3 SECONDS mid chase (its rather 0,5 seconds), in a game where 100ms ping is close to unplayable? That is not counterplay, that is giving a free hit.
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Two skull merchants in a row, i am that l l close to uninstall this ######### game.
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honestly sounds fun might play her
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Standing still for 0.3s gives her around ~1.44m of distance on you. If you're getting hit from that then you're greeding loops and should play a bit safer.
That RNG absolutely does still happen.
She wouldn't be haste amped if the team didn't give her a bunch of claw traps. She got rewarded with haste because she did her job well with good drone placements and survivors messing up, so naturally the chase becomes harder. Both wesker and singu have a similar mechanic.
Even haste amped id still say its a 50/50 and a fair chase esp since it is entirely the survivors fault if she gets above 1 stack.
Idk people seem mad they can't loop a killer by predropping it into oblivion. The main reasons I started maining SM in the first place is because she can actually punish predroppers, and you have to be actually outplayed instead of "run to yellow, drop pallet, repeat".
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Weren't you the self-proclaimed "#1 MFT hater"?
Somehow, 3% Survivor Haste is OP and uncounterable but Killer Haste doesn't make unsafe loops worse.
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she is still awful to play against and unimaginably braindead in 1v1 👍️
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YES thats me and #1 pre nerf COH hater. MFT is why I started maining SM in the first place.
MFT is significantly different to SMs haste since she doesn't have it permanently, and is instead reliant on good drone positions and survivors messing up to get it temporaily. And despite the haste effects she gains she's still very much loopable if you know what you're doing and outplay her.
You are rewarded for playing well as SM and punished for playing bad on survivor. Idk chief that looks like pretty good killer design to me.
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The hypocrisy is genuinely enjoyable, please continue.
The extremely skillful interaction of, "I placed this Drone in a loop and now I have Haste because the Drone knows your here!"
Either 3% matters or it doesn't, pick one.
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Idk what else to say if you can't see that she clearly has counterplay. Simply look back at the list of things you can do against her that I posted and maybe do some 1v1s with a friend to get the hang of it.
The wiki is also very good at getting to understand her power.
I'm not gonna debate when you want to view things in such a black and white manner ignoring everything that goes into a SM chase, especially when she's a very macro heavy and difficult killer to master, so the state of the wider match must also be considered.
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