Survivors have so much Power in Public Games...

Yes exactly. On ALL levels of play. That means low levels as well where the survivors are still running around afraid of the killer afraid to do gens lol. High level is included but it’s not specifically high levels, meaning the killrate is inflated by players who play at a casual level. I just gave you proof by giving an example of what the game looks like at top level, you know where both sides actually know how to play? You’ve just chosen to completely ignore my argument and then say that you’re willing to listen, when you literally did the complete opposite of that.

The honest truth is that it doesn’t really seem like you are willing to listen. You’ve literally just done the opposite of what you said you were willing to do. I can see I’m clearly not going to get anywhere with this conversation so we can just agree to disagree.

How do you explain all of those high MMR streamers who consistently win 9/10 games as killer? Do they have a secret queue which makes the game easier for them? Or maybe they're just better than the average forum killer?

Last two times BHVR released stats, the killrates were higher if they were filtered only to higher brackets.

You can't say any side is favored in this game. There's far too many different factors, which all change match to match.

You can get a blight with full meta running against solo queue survivors without items running off-meta, and then in that case it's killer sided.

But then you can have a match against a Trapper with 1 slowdown, but against a 4 man swf with 4 bnps with adren, dh/sprint burst, bond and windows, and then it's survivor sided.

It all depends on who decides to play more sweaty, which is impossible to tell before the match has started, except for the rare occasion where the killer sees 4 p100s with 4 toolboxes/medkits.

And even if you pair a 10000 hour nurse main against 4 survivors with 4 bnps, the best perks possible, then there's rng that comes into play. Which map did you get? Where did gens spawn? Is there a 3 gen? Where did the survivors spawn?

Arguing over which side this game favors is such a ridiculous argument, and it's entirely pointless.

My main gripes with Eerye of Crows is the lighting, alongside main building having the perfect bully SWF setup still. In first person, all that bright light on the walls and floor makes scratch marks even more hidden and really becomes blinding in some cases. And what I mean by jank tiles is something I'm sure survivors also see: Generation problems. This has been seen with weird 3 gens, tiles with no pallets and whatnot. More times than none on killer for me, I've seen multiple jungle gyms with windows facing each other so there's no real chasing them without bamboozle to cut one of them off.

In terms of intentional game design, there's a good handful of maps that have easy to do mid gens that result in a wide gap to patrol quickly with no real way to approach without the survivors getting to safe loops immediately. I actually think that's one thing Crows does right, with the mid gens having more high walls to consider before moving while other maps almost have no high walls for some of their mid gens.

We also have to consider how extremely good loops can nearly guarantee 2 gens pop quickly alongside kitted out toolboxes/perks against most of the killer roster. I have saved many soloQ games on survivor running commodius with two charge addons, stake out, hyperfocus, fogwise and built to last to do critical mid gens in the killers TR when there's a decent looper, or at least most of the gen if they decide to switch to me. Then all it takes is map knowledge of the best loops and how to counter the killer in question and if they're easy to counter. It got so monotonous for me that I now try harder builds and suffer more in SoloQ for it because of how fast I could do gens by myself compared to my teammates. It's only when I run into extreme slowdown that the gen build starts to suffer more.

I played like 10 games today as survivor, we got hard tunneled and/or proxy camped on the hook, even at 5 gens.

If thats "so much power" to the survivors, then i really dont know what to tell you..

There's a few factors to consider here:

• Why was nobody else doing gens? Not one other survivor?
• If they are proxy camping, it should give enough time to slip in and get the save, if not trade hooks if the killer is patrolling outside the facecamp circle
• Survivors can see what other survivors are doing and if they're in chase. More survivors need to be aware of this.
• Tunneling is a problem depending on the killer. The only things you can do is take hits for them, do the gens and hope the tunneled player can loop well and has access to loops.
• If they are camping too close, don't crowd the hook and allow the survivor to pull themself off the hook, then take hits for them to make sure they stay alive.

The answer isn't to do broad nerfs to killers, most already feel like tunneling is needed because of gen speeds which is another topic, but survivors need more information at their disposal. Maybe a visual indicator for the facecamp ranges, or better manuals in game for killers, powers, items, addons, etc etc. Also, some anti-tunnel changes to killers that bypass it.

I wouldn't go that far.

It's pretty entertaining and it's always cool to see true masters of any craft, but no, I don't think it should have much, if any, influence on balance

I can't remember the last time I've ever seen a survivor die to tunneling and no gens get done while survivors are doing gens and taking hits. Most of the time I get 4k's at 5 gens, it's because I end chases quickly and apply DMS with Sadako's mindgame teleport using VCR and they never get around to fixing them again.

Were all the killers running some kind of gen block/regression combination? Even Pain Res alone doesn't stop at least 1 gen from getting finished by first or second hook.

Out of my 10 games last night as survivor on NA I had about 4 hard tunnelers, 3 running pain resonance and one running Surge/Deadlock and we managed to get at least 1 gen done, max gens done was 3 before someone died and one of those 4 was an escape because the tunneled player ran OTR and DS.

This is why I talk about the disparity of no gen stall/regression and more gen stall/regression builds. Because the other 6 games were 0k-2ks running minimal regression like just Surge or none at all to devote to chase/stealth and it failing.

To add to this most top tier are well oiled coordinate 4 person swf, which is NOT the majority of players. You can't balance around the elite. Maybe the original person who stated this should read Animal Farm

So kill rates are sqewed because people intentionally throw games.

tbf.. most regression perks are trash, but i dont remember their perks, i do remember the one wraith that had addons that made him see any survivors within 8 meters when he was cloaked, and i think the other gave him uncloak speed, then he camped the hooks in hes invisibility. Needless to say that we all died .

I’d like to also mention another factor which leads to an inflated killrate that I haven’t mentioned, and that’s the whole issue of tunneling. Survivors obviously hate being tunneled out, and I’ll admit it isn’t fun at all to be tunneled out. Yet time and time again you look at popular steamers that have thousands of hours on the game and even they tunnel for a win. Take Otz for example, when he’s going for winstreaks or just needs the win he tunnels one person out.

So why would these players who clearly know what they’re doing feel the need to tunnel even when it’s hated by their own community? It’s really simple. Survivor objective speed>>>>Killer objective speed. There is simply not enough time for a twelve hook game against a good team. That’s another reason why looking at purely the killrate is just not valid. It doesn’t really tell you the full story of the match.

If we completely remove the option of tunneling from the killer I would honestly guarantee that this “killrate” would plummet drastically.

There have been many valid points on this thread as to why the killrate is not a valid way to dictate the game’s overall balance including lower levels of play, tunneling and camping in order to even achieve the kills, survivors constantly offing themselves on hook, et cetera.

And I don’t really understand the idea that we shouldn’t balance around the higher levels of play. If we balance around the casual audience the game is more imbalanced when we reach the part of the game where both sides actually know how to play. If we balance around high level then the lower level will simply learn how to play the game as they get better. Most games literally balance around the better players it’s illogical to do the opposite.

This is not a survivor exclusive issue. Whoever brings the broken BS items/add-ons/offerings/perks will have a lot of power in public games, does not matter what role they are playing.

Reminds me of the depip squad. If at the end of the game the killer has someone on hook... they'd just leave. No hook trades, no giving any chance for a comeback. The killer gets 1 kill.