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First match and it’s started
Went against a Knight with corrupt/pain res/dead man’s and … grim embrace.
the match played itself. We are absolutely back to the eruption meta.
Comments
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This was to be expected. I will abuse the ######### out of this combo so that it can be changed as fast as possible. Should not have gone to Live Servers like this anyway.
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It'll be nice for me, i'll actually be able to play out matches and go for chases instead of hard tunneling out a weak link as the only viable way to slow gens down.
Though personally i'll be dropping pain res for that for nowhere to hide.
Then when they inevitably nerf the DMS/GE combo, i'll swap to GE/Deadlock.
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Well, who could have seen that coming? It's not like the ptb feedback was describing this exact situation. We can only hope that this combo being on the watch list mean they'll react faster than usual.
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Was it not possible to completely deny that synergy by letting go of the gen as the survivor gets hooked?
Seems like that should be the case, on paper, but I haven't been in game to check yet.
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For that match there was no point to even touch a gen because by the time it went away you got like 10s to work on a gen before someone was down again.
every single killer I’ve had this session has this combo. It seems gen rushing has become the counter for everyone tho not much value if gens get done before you hook
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That's a completely different issue to any perk combination, to be fair. It does only work three times even in those doomed games, at least.
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I'm actually going to do the same. I never thought I'd resort to it, but desperate times call for desperate measures. The fact that it was put on a "watch list" was inadvertently an advertisement for it.
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Classic BHVR.
Haven't had time to boot up and check everything out yet.
But I too, will be running this so it gets changed ASAP. Only way to push change down their throats is by making the game, apparently unbearable for the other side.
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Pretty good job so far!
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BHVR actions just scream "DONT PLAY OUR GAME" so I will listen to them. Never felt worse playing a game, it just feels hopeless, the lack of touch and empathy for their community. This game is not worth it.
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Worse. Much much worse.
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Honestly I don't even know why they bother with PTB and gathering feedback. There were plenty of people in the community who were warning that this was going be be problematic but as usual the problematic changes go live with no adjustments.
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Yeah, I also try to go at least a bit off-meta (sometimes more, sometimes less). But it just baffled me that they put it on their Watch List, because it is very clear that it should not have gone to Live Servers like this. Even Grim Embrace on its own is questionable like this, but paired with DMS it is just too much.
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I originally read the change they made per description that it would get value on the first hook a killer makes and then when all 4 are hooked. That would have been the right change, not every survivor first hook.
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i was looking forward to using just grim embrace as slowdown as it's strong and looks super fun and good to use on billy with lethal/bbq but (as an empath 😇), seeing what people are doing with these full slowdown builds, i will also carry a pitchfork and hope this stuff gets addressed.
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If people are going down in 12 seconds, you SHOULD be losing as a survivor, grim embrace didn't do that.
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Overreaction of the century. Its not busted at all.
Ultimate weapon and dms does the same thinf but every hook and isnt expected.
All dms does is extend the timer to 25 seconds instead of 12 (time taken to activate). This is if you STAY on a gen (which people countrr already with pain res and dms).
Its also only on first hooks.
So if youre getting every gen blocked for 25 seconds after it procs, it means you are a potato and your team is a potato spud too. Did i mention its also not every hook.
Its basically a noob check: if dms procs ontop of GE, your playing people who dont know what it is or expect it, so youre probably gonna win anyway.
Now if they stacked, sure thats a problem, but they dont. It overrides and just does the rest of dms. Gonna repeat though, if it became meta survivors would just look to see if person is on first hook? Yes? Ok let go for 12s and carry on.... Not first hook? Gen rush as usual.
Survivors ive played have not had difficulty countering this.
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God, I sure do love NOT being able to do anything!
And guess what? It still hasn't reduced tunneling! Crazy how they'll tunnel someone out and then get free value and make the 3v1 even more unwinnable.
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What perk in that loadout is stopping you from doing anything?
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Oh, come off it.
I am not in the mood to deal with this today.
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Is a gen beinf blocked for 12 seconds really affecting you? (Dms shouldnt activate unless youre a potato). It only works 3 times at that duration and gives killer 5-10s to find one target.
Rest just go back on gens.
Gen blocking is trash v regression.
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People talk about a vicious cycle, ummm this playstyle further incentives gen rushing. I just wanna run autodidact/deadline/solitary and resilience but Doc wants to make sure we never get to touch a gen with grim embrace/thrilling/dead man’s and corrupt….
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oh i am. I’m burning some BNPs and full gen rushing builds with my friends. Everyone is gonna be miserable
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I mean, it is obvious that people are doing that with Full Slowdown-Builds. Because going full Slowdown was always the easiest way to play, since you can prolong a game to the point where Ressources are gone and without Ressources, the Survivor can be as good as they want, they will go down pretty quickly.
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i really don't think the passive aggressive comment was necessary for my lighthearted and joking post. but thanks anyways.
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I played against a Nemesis with it and my solo que team couldn't even finish one gen.
I played a game as Trapper and completely controlled the game with it after losing 2 gens in the beginning.
This build literally plays the game for you. Hope it's addressed soon.
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Comparing this to the Eruption meta is just plain wrong. At least with the gen block you can do actions meanwhile with incapacitated you couldn't. Also Grim Embrace only works 4 times and that requires UNIQUE hooks. Like its either this meta or back to a tunneling meta EVERY single game.
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Pain res + DMS combo = let go of gen before hook occurw
GE + DMS combo = let go of gen before hook and wait a few seconds for the first 3 fresh hooks. Thanks to AFC, the Killer will leave the hook ASAP.
Once people across the board learn this, it won’t be that oppressive. People anticipating such plays may even opt to heal/ do totems during this “downtime” just to be efficient.
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I'm normally excited to play when a new update comes out but I haven't played a single game and my desire to is zero. I've played long enough to know exactly what to expect and I cbf honestly.
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Grim brace should deactivate if a survivor dies by any means. That way it's truly a anti tunnel perk.
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What? You mean even with an absurdly ridiculous amount of slowdown people still tunnel? Everything I read on the forums is a lie?
/s
I forgot they were also changing GE from 'on hook' to 'when the killer walks away finally'. So yeah, we're literally back to the 'survivors just wait it out' meta. Fantastic.
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I mean, considering regression constantly gets absolutely brutalized by the devs, gen locking is the only remaining option killers have for gen control. "Just chase!" Yeah, tell that to the m1 killers who have zero chase powers. Their only viable option is to slow the gens down to buy them enough time to catch survivors out of position or making mistakes.
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If the alternative to "stand and do nothing" is "stand and do nothing to avoid standing and doing nothing for longer", we have what is called a Bad Mechanic. The balance or counterplay can be debated all day long, but it's a bad mechanic and shouldn't be in a video game. Bad lower tier killers can't be an infinite crutch for bad gameplay to lean on. You can't use them to justify having survivors stand and count blades of grass for 30 seconds.
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Yeah this got through meanwhile lets nerf Surveillance guys. Doesn't even work now when people touch a generator, it's only when the 'tap period' is passed. So you are more likely to hit the kick limit, which I hit on two generators at 3 gens remaining, so not three genning, I just do something called using my perk which tells me when someone is on a generator. Thank you so much for nerfing my relatively harmless perk while leaving this utter nonsense in.
As I said then, all these changes do is push weaker perks out and put meta perks in even more so then they were.
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Im gonna steal this
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grim embrace doesn't stop tunneling, it gives option for killer to not tunnel. Previously to Grim embrace, If I saw survivor 3 and survivor 4. I wouldn't chase survivor 3 or survivor 4. It is waste of my time. I will only chase survivor 1 and survivor 2 until survivor 1 and survivor 2 are dead. Now if I see survivor 3 or survivor 4, I might chase them because perk incentives me to do that.
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It encourages you to tunnel because it makes the game virtually unwinnable when you have three people
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It’s awful to play against and hopefully it gets adjusted soon but considering that they still haven’t even acknowledged FtP/Buckle Up, I honestly expect this to remain unchanged for months :/
Grim Embrace should just not trigger DMS and then the perk would be fine for the most part.
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but the perks peak strength comes from spreading hooks. You can't say i am tunneling if i am spreading hooks. At that point, your blaming your loss on your inability to be successful at the chase.
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If you tunnel one person out, does the perk deactivate?
Nope. Still works just fine if you turbo tunnel the first played you see.
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you get 1 use out of the perk. you have question whether 1 use is better than other perk alternatives. The more you tunnel, the less effective the perk is.
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It's honestly not that bad, by the time you activate grim embrace a few seconds have already passed and then the perk takes up 12 seconds so in reality the gens are only blocked for 20 seconds and it can only happen 4 times but more realistically 2-3.
Comparing it to Eruption which easily bought an entire minute each time is a complete joke.
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I'm honestly surprised this combo wasn't changed before the patch dropped. It is a bad design, nothing more.
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BHVR trying thier best to get kill rates to 100%....
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DMS is every hook, GE is guaranteed value on every gen in the game. It also takes a 4.4 killer less than 4 seconds to walk 16m, so, ironically, you're looking at roughly 26 seconds of blocking.
So this is exactly like Eruption in the sense that you're confusing a '26 second block' with a '26 second block on every gen in the game'. So 3 survivors getting kicked off of gens is about 78 seconds of slowdown on your first hook (26 x 3 survivors). So before the survivors even know it's in play, making this essentially guaranteed value.
You also have the same issue as Eruption that you aren't able to predict exactly when it's going to trigger, even if you had perfect comms.
And, as someone else put it in another thread, I can't stress this enough:
When your options are 'do nothing for a while' or 'do nothing for a while to avoid doing nothing for longer' then you have an awful game mechanic that should not exist. Which is exactly the lesson they didn't learn with Eruption and incapacitation.
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It's not at all like Eruption because it's only generators. Incapacitated stops you from interacting with the game for the most part, only a narrow few actions are permitted, so just gen blocking is nowhere close.
You also can predict exactly when it's going to trigger. You as a survivor can see the start of the hook animation, which gives you time to let go of the generator. This is exactly how you fool Pain Resonance and Dead Man's Switch, it's not different for this combination unless there's something big I'm missing here.
I also have a problem with that last paragraph, because that's not a criticism of this combination - and it's not even really a functional criticism of Grim Embrace on its own. When you counter the combo, only Grim Embrace is activating, and so it's not "do nothing for a while to avoid doing nothing for longer", it's "stop repairing generators because that is the effect of Grim Embrace". It wouldn't be different gameplay if DMS weren't in the killer's build, not meaningfully.
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Let me put this another way, both the effect and the counter play result in this:
Just wait it out.
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Yes. Exactly. That is my point.
The combination is not problematic because the combination doesn't do anything. You would be facing the exact same gameplay whether the killer paired Grim Embrace with DMS or not. If you have a problem here, it's with Grim Embrace to begin with, not with the GE + DMS combo.
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Perk is not even that good, you have to hook all survivors for full value, paired with dms means you already lose 12 sec value from dms, and you have to sacrifice another perk slot for it, the perk is not that bad but as always survivor mains gotta exaggerate because they rather have killers weak so they can bully them.
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the problem here is that tunnelling is made even easier. I havent had a single match with Grim Embrace where the killer didnt absolutely tunnel you out.
Why is this the case? Because they have no real losses. Before, if they tunneled someone out, Survivors could punish by being gen focussed, the killer would hook 1, then 2, then 1, and was then forced to go back to 2. But since hooking 1 blocks gens, he can leisurely hook 2 without caring too much for gens, then gens get blocked again and all the time in the world to hook 1 again and then tunnel them out. If anyone else tries to replace, he can simply down, hook and continue chasing 1 again.
GE should start blocking gens the way it does now, when not camping, as that is a REALLY healthy mechanic (and honestly, should be basekit), but should stop blocking gens the moment the killer enters a chase.
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