First match and it’s started

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Comments

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 639

    As expected, we finally have a healthy combo of perks ( their duration doesn't even stack ) that rewards killer for going after different survivors and not tunneling / proxy camping and there are already people who literally refuse to adapt and only cry how oppressive it is for them not being able to sit on gens 24 / 7 in safety. It's a git gut time for some survivor players but I see some just don't want to.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,974
  • Quizzy
    Quizzy Member Posts: 862

    And the audacity to put DMS and pain res in the shrine soon after. Like these devs know what they are doing and do not care about health of solo q players. They definitely favor the killer side and nobody can tell me otherwise. NOBODY

  • Paternalpark
    Paternalpark Member Posts: 663

    Sure and if that doesn't work out somehow for the killer, they just resort to the tried and true method of tunnel out for the 3v1.

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 639

    Tunnel out exists because other alternatives get inefficient very quickly.

    What do you expect the killer will do if the first hook does cost 2 or 3 gens? Spread the hooks?

    This combo essentially gives killer more time to roam for other survivors and get rewarded for spreading the attention. Survivors who can't run longer than few seconds are simply unhappy that killer can get a value out of something that requires effort and want those easy and brainless plays back.

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 639

    Same could be said about survivors. First two hooks don't matter, it's the last one that kills you.

    Also those early gens that you speak of is the time that killer has or should have before first few hooks can happen. When all that time gets spent because of efficient survivor play, the killer has to apply pressure. You may think that defending last remaining gens is easier when in reality a well spread gens are extremely difficult to defend for most killers. With addition of gen regression events a tri-gen situation can't be used by killer, so that point when killer could ''sacrifice'' early gens for late game is now gone.

    So what should killer do if they have a bad start and almost no late-game comeback chance ( unless they go for specific end-game build with noed, bw and other stuff ) and each hook costs at least a gen?

    Survivors have a comeback chance against a tri-gen and much easier time repairing gens because they don't need to worry about tri-gen situation anymore. The only situation when they do struggle is when one of them is out early enough, which is the reason why killers try to get a survivor out asap.

    12 hooks don't matter. This game is tied to kills and escapes. We all know that. It's like saying fixing 5 gens and opening a exit gate is a win for survivors, even if none of them does escape afterwards.

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842

    That sure would be bad...if that's how that actually worked and you weren't making things up.

    It's not a 26 second block on every gen in the game. It's a 12 second block on every gen and 26 seconds on every gen that was being worked on at the time of the grim trigger.

    Also the combo is incredibly easy to play around, after the hook if it's the person's first hook just wait a few seconds after the hook and if no Grim trigger you're fine and if grim trigger just wait the 12 seconds and it's done and then no DMS trigger. It's not like Eruption because you could never know when a person was going to go down with Eruption. This it's very simply just wait 5 seconds after someone's first hook. You know exactly when it could happen and how long to wait, you had neither of that with Eruption.

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,295

    Same could be said about survivors. First two hooks don't matter, it's the last one that kills you.

    No survivors are complaining about the first two hooks, what are you on about?

    You may think that defending last remaining gens is easier when in reality a well spread gens are extremely difficult to defend for most killers.

    It's still a ton easier than defending 7 gens, don't you think?

    With addition of gen regression events a tri-gen situation can't be used by killer, so that point when killer could ''sacrifice'' early gens for late game is now gone.

    That's nonsense! Even if you can only have eight regression events, that's still eight regression events. And each individual event is now more impactful. That still buys you -tons- of time to get your hooks in, just not a literal infinite amount anymore. You actually do have to do work now.

    So what should killer do if they have a bad start and almost no late-game comeback chance

    You -always- have a late-game comeback chance, that's innate. If you fail to grasp it, accept that you lost a match.

    Sometimes you lose a match, that's okay too.

  • rha
    rha Member Posts: 417

    Well once the killer gets the first hook this fundamentally changes the game dynamic and everything slows down, with the right perks you quickly find someone to chase next and someone else must go for the hook save so there's only one left to work on a gen (in solo queue you may have two competing for hook save and gen progress is completely stalled) vs 3 on gens during first chase. Once someone is rescued from hook, they often want to be healed, and once that is done the killer has the next survivor downed already so it's not back to gen but rather run off and unhook the next survivor ...

    Plus the resources to work with (pallets) are gradually reduced, so chases will be shorter.

    If the survivors are still incredibly efficient fixing gens so that the gens are flying he is probably simply not good enough for the survivors and deserves to lose. If this happens consistently, then the problem is the matchmaking. Killer is so powerful at the moment and solo queue is so ridiculously weak that there's for sure a group out there for any killer against which he has a very good chance without any cheap tactics.

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 639
    1. Getting hooked twice in a row is considered tunneling.
    2. Defending last gens is now harder because of gen regression events.
    3. Events are not impactful. Gen regression perks are the same. If you mean 5% regression perk kick instead of 2.5%, then it's 3 seconds of gen repair. It's extremely easy to do, especially if 2 or more survivors do that. As long as you don't try to do that in killer's face, stopping gen regression is not much of an issue.
    4. Where exactly does a killer without very specific perks have a comeback mechanic?
  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 639

    First hook is impactful if it happens too early and other conditions do match ( survivor is hooked on Pain Ress or any other special hook, killer has perks that trigger on hook ) however if it's 1 hook - 1 or 2 gens pace which is quite common if survivors are not trolls, do repair gens and can at least go far enough from gens that are being worked on, then suddenly getting hooked stops being the end of the world. It's all about timing here.

    If killers who are not efficient deserve to lose as you say, then don't you think survivors who are not efficient deserve to lose too? By this statement, if a killer tunnels one survivor out asap and the remaining survivors don't repair 3 or more gens meanwhile, they deserve to lose too.

  • bornagain234
    bornagain234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 336

    Genuine question, have killers ever had a combo everyone hasnt complained about?

  • Akumakaji
    Akumakaji Member Posts: 5,178

    Honestly, during the Eruption meta I only tried it out 2 or 3 times and then laid it to rest, focusing on other ways to win, but in hindsight it feels like I dibbed out of an important part of DBD history, the likes people are still talking to this day. I did the right thing back then, but it feels like I missed out on history. This won't be happening again, this time I am all in for it! Wooohaaa!

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,295
    1. If you double-hook someone and then ignore them for the rest of the match until you've gotten a solid number of hooks on others, they're really not going to care.
    2. This is actually pretty doubtful. How many games do you actually manage to rack up eight regression events on one gen, without also winning that match? Besides, your job isn't to keep the gens from being done.
    3. YOU think they're not impactful. That's a difference.
    4. Who said anything about a comeback -mechanism-? The game's built from the ground up to work that way. The killer starts behind and can overtake the survivors. The game doesn't hand it to you, but you can easily secure extra kills even if the early game was trash. If the survivors had a bad start, it's incredibly difficult for them to recover.
  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 6,489
  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 639
    1. But you do realize that survivor who was double hooked already is in the risk of being hooked for the third time at any moment and has to play safe? It's not like killer will intentionally ignore a survivor who is repairing a gen in front of it, right? Being double hooked like that means you can get eliminated the moment killer finds that convenient or required.
    2. That's the thing - in this gen block meta, you likely don't get those 8 gen regression events because you rely on getting gens blocked long enough to get survivors eliminated. Go for gen regression perks and chances are you will eventually get a gen that can't be manually damaged by a killer anymore.
    3. Maybe it is a subjective thing here. If so, then this entire point is irrelevant.
    4. Who decides that killer starts behind at all in the first place? Killer spawns in one point of the map and survivors somewhere else ( provided no offerings are used ). It all goes about luck whenever killer finds and does catch survivor off-guard and gets early downs or hooks or has to spend time before any chase does happen and lose a gen while searching for the first target. There's absolutely no guarantee at any point of the game that one side will win or lose. Odds of winning or losing do change based on how many survivors are still in the game and how many generators were repaired.
  • aerie
    aerie Member Posts: 68

    just went against the aforementioned The Build (trademark pending) and can confirm i am not excited

  • Firellius
    Firellius Member Posts: 4,295

    Being double hooked like that means you can get eliminated the moment killer finds that convenient or required.

    Which is about when that survivor is released from the hook again. That's the problem with tunnelling. An issue you don't have with gens.

    That's the thing - in this gen block meta

    It's not a gen-block meta thing. BHVR chose 8 because it was a number that, according to their statistics, is barely ever hit -outside- of 60-min stall tactics. You're very unlikely to hit this limit, so long as you don't play exclusively for gen defense.

    Who decides that killer starts behind at all in the first place?

    That's how the game progresses. Your first chase has the most pallets in it, and the least pressure on survivors. Your later chases will have more pressure on survivors, fewer pallets, people might be injured, your power might come online, whatever you may have, but generally speaking, killers start the match at their weakest. Which is why it's unreasonable to point to the very first chase as some kind of indicator for the rest of the game. Plenty of matches where the first hook comes at three gens done still result in a 3K+.

    Conversely though, if a survivor is dead and there's more than one gen left to do, the chances of a 2E or better are infinitesimal.

    Killers can make comebacks pretty easily. For survivors, it's almost impossible. That's why this focus on a 'fair' early game is entirely unreasonable.

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842

    It in the early days of DBD there was Sloppy/Nurses Calling and I don't think many people minded that?

    But in the last few years? No I don't think so maybe Lethal/BBQ but calling that a combo is a stretch.

  • Green_Sliche
    Green_Sliche Member Posts: 639
    1. The relation of tunneling to gen is that getting someone tunneled out asap is the best gen regression tool for a killer out there. Less survivors left - slower the gens may get repaired.
    2. Gen block meta is about defending gens from being completed, is that not? You sacrifice gen regression but in exchange you don't spend gen regression events. A simple example here is having a gen being blocked for you for 30 seconds or having a killer come and do a kick and regress a gen to it's 30 seconds before state.
    3. Absolutely subjective and random experience. Your first chase may be the easiest one where you catch survivor off-guard and get a down in first 10 - 15 seconds in the game against a chase at later where survivor loops you around the shack or jungle-gym or circles around 2 pallets forcing you mind game or tank the pallet. Game result can change at any point of the game because there are plenty of other factors, such as survivor altruism or greed or killer's relentless pursue of the weak link or mere mass slugging.
    4. Even if there are 3 survivors and 2 gens left, chances of escaping still exist so long as gens are decently spread, there are enough pallets and survivors are capable of keeping killer busy. This part is about luck and skill, which can be the biggest variable. Saying that killers can make a comeback and survivors can't is a bit of a short-sight, when there are so many factors that need to be considered. Perhaps since killer is alone, this so-called comeback is more noticeable because survivors are about a team work and coordination where killer is about making right decision at the right moment.