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Looking for matches/videos from killer PoV where they don't tunnel/camp

Reinami
Reinami Member Posts: 5,636
edited February 1 in General Discussions

I'm looking for some matches where killers play against GOOD survivor teams, like really good top tier high MMR teams. Comp matches are fine, but the match specifically can't have any restrictions or rules like: "no same perks" on the survivor, or use any special scoring systems that tournaments often do.


In these matches i am looking for games where the killer specifically does not tunnel/camp/proxy camp in a way that seems unfair, and for matches where the killer wins. I would also like matches where the killer is not running 4 slowdown perks, 2 max.


Matches where the killer is not playing nurse or blight (or tomestone myers) is preferred as well.


Hoping to get these matches because i am genuinely convinced that it is not possible for killers to win consistently without camping/tunneling etc against top tier teams that are really good. I have been attempting to do an experiment where i "play nice" today, and after 10 matches i haven't won a single one.

So, while this is my belief that this is true, i WANT to be proven wrong. I want to see some matches to see if maybe i'm doing something wrong, and can improve on my personal play.


I have looked around and the only thing i can ever find are comp matches where they have special rules in place, or are doing some kind of challenge. Or content creators.

Post edited by EQWashu on
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Comments

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636
    edited February 1

    It is pretty easy to tell when survivors are good vs when they are not from the killer PoV. 4k hours will do that for you.


    But i would be happy to review some videos from any of those content creators i mentioned. Its just what i noticed when i watched them, that most of the time otz is playing some kind of challenge, which isn't really what i'm looking for. And scott tends to meme around a lot, and i'd imagine his mmr is probably much lower because of this, vs say someone like tru3ta1ent who plays to win every single game. But tru3 isn't what i'm looking for either.


    I'm here trying to improve and see if i'm doing something wrong.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 2,222

    You pretty much need to go up against a comp team with no restrictions otherwise u can just use the excuse "they wasn't good survivors".

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    I'd be able to tell the difference between "normal" survivors and high tier ones. You can tell just by how they move how good they are.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 16,341

    You can believe me or not, this was not my Edit. Some Mod seemed to have edited it (for whatever reason) without giving a notification.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636
    edited February 1

    Mmhmm, and they deleted my comment there, keeping civil, which i like. Either way, staying on topic. Would still love to see some videos of this to improve my play.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    I have watch tofu before and really only ever seen those challenges that he does, admittedly i haven't watched him in a long long time, so i'll take a look. As for skerms, never heard of them i'll check them out.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    Looked at skerms, he seems like he mainly plays survivor, and the few matches of killer i saw from the last 6 months were just PTB matches, which i wouldn't really take too much stock in as i don't think PTB uses mmr at all.

  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 6,784

    Thing is what do you define as "winning consistently"?

  • squbax
    squbax Member Posts: 1,508

    Ohtofu legit plays against people who would surprise me if they had more than 100 h in the game, they are clueless. As for skermz I do not know them, so I cannot give an opinion.

  • miniwengsel
    miniwengsel Member Posts: 407
    edited February 1

    This doesnt exits. I played as "nice" as I could as killer, but since MMR this is no longer possable. I have played 1 to 3 hours killer daily. I liked Pig, Bubba, Trapper etc, but since mmr I only played 15 matches a day, 12, 8, 5 and now I am at 2 maybe. I had like 100 or more matches a mouth and now I have 60 in three. I liked to play all killers, but I guess now I just need to learn blight and Nurse and forget, that other killers even exists. Survivors got Baiskit BT and information on every other survivor. What got the killers in reverse to this... 10% hit and pallet break couldown. Thanks it wasnt the baiskit Corrupt or the early game collaps we were waiting for. Even if you look at perk metas, if the killers got a strong one ore a potetial of one like Dead Mans and grim, that is instandly removed or announced to get removed, but the survivor perks stayed mostly the same. The only change is, that they added perks to it. I mean Dead Mans and grim isnt been used jet and they instandly what to remove it, but combis like FTP and BU is fine and can stay. WoO is fine and can stay. DH got changed, but is still meta. Adranalin also didnt get any changes.

    I know I sound like im only playing killer, but I play both sides 50/50, the difference, when I play survivor is, that I can play every or no perks and still can win with my personal skill. As Killer you need strong perks to be able to win. (on high mmr) and yes the killers in my survivor matches aslo hard tunnel, but I cant see any other options for them to win most of the time. If they hadnt tunneled the havent got anything.

  • Gastongard
    Gastongard Member Posts: 143

    You can look for AgustinaUnaplay8 on twitch or youtube, this guy has the rule of no camping or tunelling and he wins most of his matches, some of them against really strong teams/swf. Camping or tunelling is not necessary if you know how to manage the time, chases and gens.

    But also, if you expect to win every game you play, then you need to lower your expectations, because if killers could win every match then who would play as survivor? It would be more miserable than, which is something to say the least.

    If we take the Killer-Survivor ratio that BHVR published, which is on 60-40% on killers favour, then if you win 6 out of 10 matches you are doing more than fine. Loosing is not bad, I dont understand why every killer sweats their asses off to win just one match, you wont get any money for wining, in fact you are playing just a videogame, and not even a good one. And before anyone says "survis tunnels gen" then tell this devs to add a second objective, this is the only thing they can do to make the match progress.

  • ImWinston
    ImWinston Member Posts: 254


    This streamer did a challenge with Trapper without perks, without tunneling, without traps, without camping... he won 8 games out of 10. It happened about a couple of months ago, I don't know if he has a YT channel and uploaded a video about it

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,836

    A killer probably shouldn't win against a top tier, best of the best survivor team. A team like that *should* be hard to beat. And vice versa.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    Perhaps, i plan on recording some of my matches and posting them here as part of the experiment i'm doing. And see if people really understand that the survivors we are playing against are not the same.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    Dunno if you read the full OP, but i have played around 15 matches today now playing "nice" and won 2 of them, and 1 of them was because someone immediately DCed as soon as they got downed.

  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 6,784

    Or... hear me out

    Matchmaking is and always has been dog. No streamer is going to spend hours of their time afking off stream just to lower a number they cant see. Most of my games are 3-4ks even when I do play with the most random builds, and upon looking at peoples profiles a lot of them don't even reach 1k hours, while I myself have over 6k.

    The strategy you mentioned is nothing new and is a perfect ideal scenario which only really works against inexperienced groups since, again, its a perfect scenario.

    2 gens remaining and all 4 of them being alive is what happens a large majority of the time. Just because they're all alive doesn't mean you haven't depleted their resources and have gotten hooks in between. If you haven't done either, then you kind of deserve to lose at that point since a bunch of mistakes have brought you to that point.

  • WaveyTrey
    WaveyTrey Member Posts: 652
    edited February 2

    Yes. We should begin comparing our experiences playing DBD. As opposed to just focusing on hours and the supposed MMR. Since it all varies after a certain amount of time playing any game.

    After I repeatedly saw “PAID ACTORS” in the chat boxes of big streamers I began to wonder if it was true. Somewhere along the line I now believe that it is true. Not every single time as that would be too obvious.

    There’s no way a low/mid tier killer will defeat everyone consistently with no slowdowns after like 5K hours. While chasing anyone for more than 30 seconds? They absolutely will not 4k. Gens should’ve been slammed unless the players deliberately lose on purpose. They’re doing challenges in the tombs, or they’re messing around.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    I think it is more of combination of, matchmaking is horrible, and time of day/region.


    For example, i live on the west coast of U.S. if i play around 7 pm - 2 am, i will win probably 95% of my games as killer, easily, going against these, what i call, "normal" survivors.

    But i i play during say, the morning, or my lunch break, around 8 am - 12 pm? I get these crazy good top tier godly survivors where there is no weak link. Even if they play solo queue, they just are hella efficient and i lose 3 gens in the first chase basically guaranteed. Or, i break chase and then i lose the 3 gens slightly slower, but i end up with no hooks.

  • Frizouw
    Frizouw Member Posts: 96

    I like that thread, trying to gage if killers are having skills issues or if the game is really made in a way impossible to not tunnel.

  • Shroompy
    Shroompy Member Posts: 6,784

    Basically the same case here over on the east coast of Canada but its not that different. On the off chance that I can play during the day I do get decent Survivors on average, but with a few very experienced ones sprinkled in. During evening/nights when I usually play I get the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. Either really experienced Survivors in a coordinated group (which is not often, probably like one out of 5ish games) or people I have no business being matched with (Survivors with hours that don't even reach quad digits)

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    Yeah, its super obvious to me in the first chase what kind of match i'm dealing with. And yeah, obviously i get the megheads as well, but sometimes...

  • I_CAME
    I_CAME Member Posts: 1,327

    I lost 9 games in a row on the day of new Billy release. By far one of the worst losing streaks i've ever had in this game. I still got matched with 4 P100 Hillbillies in that span. One of which had 8700 hours and another which was a comp player. The matchmaking is just bad and I don't know how some people still don't realize this. It's not strict at all and just throws you in with whoever.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    You know i was just toying around with the options menu and realized that there is a "matchmaking delay" that streamers can use to prevent harassment. I wonder if playing with that setting on does something to the matchmaking.


    I'll do an experiment this weekend where i play 10 games with it on, and 10 off and compare results.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,683

    I was going to offer to record some of my own games, as I try my best to avoid strategies that are frowned upon.

    But thankfully I don't usually play against the super sweaty teams of survivors you're looking for, so I don't think my recordings would help with your experiment here.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    I would say this person is digging too deep. But it is true, if you watch someone like tru3ta1ent (yes i know he complains a lot) there really is something to the fact that the survivors he plays against are usually really good. Then when you watch someone like scott jund, he can have the first chase go poorly, but doesn't lose 3 gens somehow.


    You see what i'm getting at? Its not some deep conspiracy, but something is there with matchmaking.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636
    edited February 2

    Matchmaking is also a wild beast. I just got out of a game where the survivors sent me to garden of joy, i was playing chucky, they had multiple adrenalines, sprint bursts, all of them immediately ran to the house. I made a single mistake in the first chase, so my first hit was delayed, caught back up, landed a hit, bam, 3 gens gone. At that point they kept abusing the OP house and i ended that game with 1 hook and 4 escapes.


    The match right after? A match of what i call "normal" survivors, where they were super inefficient, mindgaming themselves, running into me etc.


    I recorded both matches, unfortunately the 1st one OBS wasn't working right so i lost the footage for it when i hit "stop recording" it just never saved the file. For the second match i recorded it, i'm going to annotate it, analyze it and go over it. Then i'm going to keep playing until i get another one of those 1st ones, and do the same for that match. You'll see the difference.


    EDIT: this next match i'm sitting in queue for has 3 p100s, so maybe it will be like the first, although prestige is mostly meaningless it increases the chances of them being better than at least the last match i just played.


    EDIT 2: Unfortunately someone was afk for the beginning of the game, so i wouldn't really count it. We'll see how the next one plays out.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Remember Knightlight team against an average SM with 50min match?

    Yes, they listed down the strongest team in the world's mistake like an average Solo team

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,906

    It is pretty easy to tell when survivors are good vs when they are not from the killer PoV. 4k hours will do that for you.

    It is pretty easy to tell when you are the killer how good the survivors are in comparison to you, but I don't think that actually translates to watching other people's videos. A great killer will make good survivors look like bad survivors. So much of the game is prediction and getting a read on other players and that doesn't necessarily show up watching someone else.

    The other problem is that is very easy to critique killer videos when watching them later (not that it shouldn't be done). When you are in the game it is much harder to avoid getting tunnel vision, but its easy to spot all of the missed details when watching later.

    On the guidelines in your original post:

    What's your definition of tunneling and camping?

    What's your definition of win consistently?

    A huge problem on what you are looking for: if someone got to the point where they were at high MMR and winning most of their games while playing nice, why would they keep playing? That's the point where players start doing challenges because why else would they play the game.

    So I ask you all to watch them CLOSELY. There’s a reason viewers scream “PAID ACTORS!!”. It’s because sometimes it’s true!

    So for this to be true:

    There would have to be some type of code somewhere that gives these players separate, easier ques. Hackers almost certainly would have stumbled across this.

    There would be payments and tax documentation.

    Most importantly: for a game that needs 80% survivors, why would BHVR ever want to make the killer role look easy?

    I'll do an experiment this weekend where i play 10 games with it on, and 10 off and compare results.

    You'll probably need a lot more than 10 on each if you think there is some secret to the match making delay.

    Same region as you, agree that times play a huge role, but for me the times are flipped. Evenings are my hardest matches.

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,129

    A point could be made about Fog whisperers getting “easier” games especially on Killer.

    Killer gameplay is much more entertaining to watch since Survivor gameplay has downtime (Doing gens, being on the hook, waiting in lobby after being sacrificed). Given that the Killers are the unique characters in the game and not the million outfits of Feng Min, it makes sense to promote Killers and showing Fog whisperers being constantly decimated on the “power” role in the game is probably not a good way to market the game.

    Showcasing how “easy” Killer gameplay is also encourages players to take up the Killer role. This helps to pad out the Killer population numbers.

    Fog Whisperers may not even be aware that they are more likely to get baby opponents in their queues. The only people who can confirm this is BHVR and they don’t benefit from confirming or denying it so the likelihood of it happening in’t very high

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,439

    I'd imagine it's time of day. I don't know when true plays and I don't care.

    Consistently strong squads only come out via matchmaking when playing after 12:00AM for me on NA.

    That's held true for me since 6.1.0 and any day of the week. I play this game in a state of washed and under the influence and if I didn't play after 12:00 my auto pilot self would end the game at 3 gens+. Even then I watch 2 amazing survivors get paired with ayrun wannabies and throw the game via macro.

    If I get a single good squad before 12 it's by pure luck and the rng of hitting the queue up button.

    What you said is a complete conspiracy. There is no favoritism of this poorly designed matchmaking.

    If I had to give anything to true it's his tenacity in his stances, my first experience was him going completely off the rails while playing hard meta nurse on swamp pre 6.1.0. He played just the worst and still managed to make it about survivors even though they were far stronger then. Doesn't matter about their power level back then though, he couldn't have played worse with his experience if he tried.

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 5,347

    The biggest issue with this is perception. You could have a Killer play "fairly" with a good squad, but if they make one mistake or somebody highlights a hindsight , then that team is destined to be not good enough because of a mistake.

    Also, a "good" team of Survivors is subjective, considering a good team is deemed by an onlooker as anyone better than them.

    In short, the attempt to find this is futile because of a subjective viewpoint. Therefore, it's not possible to find what you're after, especially on a consistent level.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,903

    It's pretty well known that Tru3 sweats a lot and takes the game very seriously.

    Scott doesn't do that, hence his MMR probably isn't as high. He also plays in a different region at a different time.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636

    Yeah, i mentioned that in one of my other posts. But Matchmaking is wild, i can have 1 game where i go against a sweat squad, full meta perks, full loadout, sending me to garden of joy and i get 1 hook. But then my next match is a 5 gen stomp because the survivors just refuse to do gens for some reason.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,903
  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 5,347

    This link may give you a lead into this type of investigation.

    A fair few matches were against - as Hens admits - inexperienced players, but there are 3 or so games with good, competent teams.

    He also explains others have done the same, with references to the players concerned at the end.

    Now, of course there could be arguments for any win, but the basis remains that there are possibilities. Also, there is that bit about not winning without tunnelling, camping or slugging consistently against high-tier teams, but I'd argue this doesn't happen in any real setting and being continuously put against top tier teams isn't something that happens often anyway. The MMR is such that this cannot often be the case.

    Overall, for the majority of good players, there is a decent chance they might. Not consistently, though this game doesn't grant consistency by its very arbitrary nature.

  • th3syst3m
    th3syst3m Member Posts: 394

    Yeah I don't know what that is. I mean he wins most of the time so I would assume his MMR is high. Maybe it's a combination of him playing so late and the fact that players with that much experience can make ok survivors look like potatoes.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,438

    Kind of the nature of the beast on NA servers, especially NA East. I win an abnormal number of games at 5 gens, but I'll also run into an omega sweat 4 stack the next game. Match difficulty swings wildly on NA East.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,636
    edited February 2

    I JUST HAD IT. I had the match, where i felt like i did everything right, outside of 1 or 2 micro mistakes, that made it so i ended the game with 3 hooks and a 4 escape and they weren't even a SWF, so its not "just coms" that does this, and it happened right after a match where i felt i played horribly, and the survivors barely finished 3 gens before i killed 3 and 1 got hatch.


    I'm going to go over these videos now, and annotate them with what i was thinking at the time, and what i feel happened, and show you the difference, people need to see the difference between these "normal" survivors, and these teams that play really well, and hopefully this will help people understand that there are 2 different games being played here. I'll make a new thread for it.


    Because when i post on these forums talking about how there are only 2 viable killers, you'll see exactly why in this video. Because i made every correct decision given the information i had, and any other decision i would have made would have led to the exact same outcome. With only a single mistake, which, by the time that happened the survivors already basically won anyway. And on top of that this wasn't even a full SWF, potentially a pair, but the point stands that you don't need a SWF to do what you will see in these videos.


    Hopefully i can post later tonight, but please look out for the thread.


    EDIT: Playing back the footage, and i still believe i made 90-95% correct decisions. And against a team of "normal" survivors this match would have been a complete stomp for me like the previous match i played. This is going to be good.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,903

    I mean, that's normal?

    It really doesn't matter the amount of mistakes so much as what mistake it was and when. Sometimes, the mistake is out of your control, like running a perk like BBQ against 4 Distortions.


    I shall look out for the thread later.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,424