so where is the solution to bt bodyblocking?
with ds getting its very much needed buff, is there any plans or intentions to address weaponizing anti-tunnel measurements like basekit bt and anti-tunnel perks; the cases where survivors take 1 or 2 free hits and force their value on non-tunneling killers?
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I said this million times. BT need to be reworked. Keep haste effect and rework the other effect. Now survivor will lose collision. So killer can't bodyblock the survivor, so survivor have more chance to make it to safe loop. And also survivor can't bodyblock the killer for save their teammate.
But i know this won't happen and probably it will end some survivor nerfs.
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Well first of all there's no such thing as a "free hit."
The only time that's applicable is under niche circumstances like Adrenaline baiting.
Endurance hits still have a steep cost to them. Not only do you have to stop any conspicuous action to mend. But you're also still injured afterwards.
Bodyblocking is also challenging for both sides to pull off unless its a building or chokepoint. So I don't think any changes are needed personally.
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I'd remove collision, personally. Not a huge issue now, but if DS gets buffed, it may become one.
As it is now, if someone BT bodyblocks me, I just tunnel them out. Every single time.
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10 seconds of no collision and hitbox instead of endurance would be a good start, and mostly enough to be fair.
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myers is the one killer that punishes this and it’s funny
someone goes to bt block and you have tombstone ez kill
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On a side note does anyone else hate it when people do this and get downed and then your benevolent emblem is tossed in the dumpster
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it IS going to be because there won't be any repercussions for doing it anymore. even if the killer slugs after downing (which requires the equal amount of effort as downing a healthy person) that's still big perk value.
how is bt bodyblocking challenging unless the hook was in a complete dead zone? they only need to do it for a few seconds and both survivors are safe.
i'm sorry but i won't even explain why an endurance hit is nothing compared to a health state, hence "free".
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i almost never play tombstone because i like bps but that sounds euphoric.
oh hook farming destroyed that emblem i remember, on top of that the game turns into a 3 hook 1 kill even against a killer that had nothing to do with tunneling initially.
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BT isnt just an anti-tunnel perk. It never was.
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You should lose collision with the Killer while having unhook Endurance or BT Endurance.
Not only can the Survivors bodyblock the Killer, but it goes both ways, the Survivors can easily be bodyblocked and tunneled out. The entire point of unhook Endurance/BT is to prevent tunneling but it can sometimes be very ineffective at it or be used offensively.
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BT is not, was not, and has never been 'anti-tunnel', it's strictly an anti camping perk and mechanic.
It's only purpose is to prevent killers from being rewarded by camping the hook with a literally free down the instant someone is unhooked. That's why it only lasts a short time and you can literally bypass it by counting to ten. That's not even remotely a tunneling deterrent.
The counter to BT has always been 'don't be at the hook and actually apply map pressure'. So basically, don't camp.
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They'd have to increase the haste and fix unhooking animation to be more fluid.
As it stands the endurance bodyblock is the only thing that stops camping and forcing hook trades. If it was removed how would you even stop basement camps?
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does it matter whether it is called anti camp or tunnel? bt bodyblocks don't happen only in camping scenarios, the survivor being chased can simply decide to run to hook or just farm the hooked survivor.
also i said bt and the actual anti tunnel perks, which definitely don't last only 10 seconds. do you have a few things to say about those?
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i'd agree that unhook animation shouldn't take years if some changes were to made about bt; but if you have to trade you will trade, current bt doesn't help with that.
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I already did.
First of all, your 'anti tunnel perks' that fall into this category is exactly and only one perk, and it's OTR.
Second of all, if you want to avoid anti tunnel perks (OTR) used for body blocking, try pressuring the rest of the map. Since you specifically called it out in your op, BT is absolutely hard countered by not going immediately back to hook the instant you get the notification. So is OTR. Interesting that that's entirely within the killer's ability to avoid.
This is why I said specifically in my first post, if you're getting hit with borrowed time in this case, you really should be asking yourself what the other survivors are doing (it's gens). In that case, you're completely ignoring two people on gens to make sure you are back at hook instantly (within 10 seconds) and complaining that you didn't count to ten first. That's 100% on you.
And if all the gens are done, guess what, OTR is disabled! So in that case you're actually struggling with counting to ten. Literally.
If people actually understood map pressure, there would be far, far less (nearly zero) instances of active body blocking.
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BT is absolutely an anti-tunneling perk. You can tell this by the way it has not impact on camping but does have an impact on tunneling. OTR is not the only anti-tunneling perk. Did you forget about DS? BT is not "hard countered" by not going back to the hook. If you're chasing a survivor near and they go near the hook it would be dumb to just walk away. When they unhook the survivor right in front of you and the unhooked survivor bodyblocks do you think the killer should just leave?
The whole reason these perks got reworks in the first place was due to survivors who complained that they needed them every game to deal with tunneling using them offensively.
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did you even read my reply? because it literally says:
bt bodyblocks don't happen only in camping scenarios, the survivor being chased can simply decide to run to hook or just farm the hooked survivor.
the survivor you chased halfway across the map brought you to hook or they tried to save a second after you hooked the person, what you do? those are survivor mistakes not me camping. does bt disable in those situations? like you talked a bunch of stuff yeah camping map pressure but i still face hittanking when i'm not camping at all. "weaponizing", "abusing" "misusing" idk how else i have to explain.
edit: also ds also is an anti tunnel perk :)
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It would be a pretty easy solution for both sides and I would like to see that too. Although, if this were to happen in end game as well, then there is absolutely no way for an killer to stop that survivor from escaping. Which means, they'll be more inclined to camp that survivor.
OTR could actually increase your movement speed (maybe 5-7%) with the same conditions as the endurance effect.
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Oh gosh, what r they doing to DS now?
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But you would already be injured, and the killer would probably go for the unhooker anyways, which means you have plenty of time to mend
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Maybe BT is lost in endgame? I mean, I feel like 9/10 times, if you're being camped at EGC, there's really no hope with getting away
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tunneling, camping this and that all the same excuses for their demands. people bringing up tunneling as their justification for ftp buckle up nowadays also, there is no ending to it and some people don't realize if something is problematic it's problematic. of course changes needed and need to be done but you can't come at people that say those helping mechanics shouldn't be abusable and should be improved.
BT is absolutely an anti-tunneling perk.
with all fairness, bt is both an anti tunnel and anti camp mechanic; they oftentimes go hand in hand anyway.
in end game i think it shouldn't be gone since survivors don't have any other off-hook protection anymore.
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it's on the roadmap, getting tweaked in june. probably getting buffs.
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I see where you're coming from and I cannot argue with that logic because it's the exact same point I made just for survivors.
I guess, it would be possible to take hits. But that's pretty much it. It seems like there is really no middle ground. It's either a guaranteed escape or a guaranteed kill.
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I don't feel is weaponizing when the killer is forcing a trade.
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Everyone wants 5 seconds back, at least. But there is no telling what will actually happen.
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1. There's no such thing has free hits.
2. Forcing trades through gameplay mechanics is bad design and people shouldn't be asking for that.
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Are you salty about something?
You've never followed the first scratch marks you saw after a hook to end up right back at the hook? You've never check literally 3 gens and went back to a near stage 2 because that's the only place to be because anywhere else has been a waste of time.
You are just being disingenuous or don't play killer, it's a hard call. I rarely end up in this scenarios but saying they don't happen when playing 120% fair is just laughable on all accounts.
I don't tunnel, I don't camp, I don't kick gens and 95% of the time survivors will be healed before I ever lay eyes on them. But the situation does arise and survivors waste their base kit bt illegally.
I understand map pressure, but sometimes survivors are not going to be found and I don't play killer to essentially afk. Anyway try again.
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Offense BT bodyblock use = instant tunnel. I'm not going to chase an uninjured survivor when the person who is now injured, and in deep wound is right in front of me. 🤣
Also, I find basekit BT is only annoying at the endgame when they get given a pity escape. The rest of the time I put my maths degree to use and count to 10. 🤲
OTR and DS can be annoying if it is unexpected, but they just mean I get to chase more. 🤩
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the survivor you chased halfway across the map brought you to hook or they tried to save a second after you hooked the person, what you do?If you've been chasing the survivor that long, how is it that you can't force a trade?
edit: also ds also is an anti tunnel perk :)He didn't say that OTR was the only anti-tunnel perk, only that it was the one that met the conditions you specified (where a survivor can body block for others).
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All they have to do is make it to where once a killer is "X" Radius away from the hook then deep wounds won't activate but if they're close enough to tunnel and actively proxy the hook they deserve to get deep wounds, and make it distance from hook not heartbeat activated
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I go away from hook.
I see scratch marks.
I follow them.
In the distance I see a survivor unhooking another.
That's one example, it doesn't happen often but you would be lying to yourself to say there is no situation in which a killer can be forced to eat a bt hit even though they had 0 intention of tunneling.
Any m1 killer could start trailing scratch marks half way across the map easily and only arrive at the hook for an m1 after the unhook animation is over.
seriously, have you and ampersand never been in that scenario once.
I'm all about running bbq and going for map pressure but it's not such an impossible situation.
Also ds was a body block perk before it's nerf and by extension still is. Survivor forces down with ds, survivor has UB. Now what? Your eating something there, pick one.
Let me reiterate body blocks happen rarely to me because I am such an immensely nice killer, but they do happen and I will exempt my tunneling rule just for those people so avidly trying to take a hit when I am keeping tension alive by ignoring them.
A survivor body blocking with bt knows the repercussions and for forcing it or they are clueless. I'll take hit's on survivor when It suits me, but I know what I am doing. Complaining about it would only make me a joke.
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because they need to trade (because other survivors slacked off/didn't play macro correctly, not killer's fault) or just want to farm the unhook; they b-line to the hook after getting hit from distance. idk why i feel like i'm talking about such a rare occurance here, do you guys actually never play killer to see at least the most common things happen when playing it or what?
ds by itself also is commonly used as a body blocking tool but i'm mainly talking about being quite safe and sound while you are abusing a basekit anti tunneling/camping mechanic when you have the perk.
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Nothing has been announced except that it’s on their roadmap for the near future. Most likely will go back to a 5 second stun.
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seriously, have you and ampersand never been in that scenario once.Neither Ampersand or I replied to you though? We've been discussing the scenarios laid out by NerfDHAlready.
because they need to trade (because other survivors slacked off/didn't play macro correctly, not killer's fault) or just want to farm the unhook; they b-line to the hook after getting hit from distanceOkay, that's a different circumstance than the idea of chasing them around half the map. Trade is different than bodyblocking, if you hit a survivor and they used the speed burst to get to the unhook, you should be able to force a trade.
idk why i feel like i'm talking about such a rare occurance here, do you guys actually never play killer to see at least the most common things happen when playing it or what?Then run around the guy going for the block. Or swing through him. Or count to ten.
Going back to your OP, none of these are 'free hits'. You have multiple counterplay options that can engage in (not to mention that specific killers have even more). Some are better than others depending on the situation, but that's how the game (and pretty much all games) works.
ds by itself also is commonly used as a body blocking tool but i'm mainly talking about being quite safe and sound while you are abusing a basekit anti tunneling/camping mechanic when you have the perk.How is it 'abusing'?
As survivor you are accepting a consequence/risk for some type of strategic return.
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Okay, that's a different circumstance than the idea of chasing them around half the map.
um, no? please tell me what i should do if i chase someone 40 meters away from hook and they run to the direction of the hook and eventually to the hook itself.
Then run around the guy going for the block.
this is not always an option.
Or swing through him.
??
Or count to ten.
and survivor will kindly wait for the timer to run out so i can down them. noted.
As survivor you are accepting a consequence/risk for some type of strategic return.
this what all my post is about. with buffed ds there won't be much of a risk factor for doing those "strategic" plays.
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um, no? please tell me what i should do if i chase someone 40 meters away from hook and they run to the direction of the hook and eventually to the hook itself.You hit them a second time for the trade most likely after the unhook. It may require you to dodge the other survivor attempting a body block, but all hooks have space to move around them.
and survivor will kindly wait for the timer to run out so i can down them. noted.You do have to play against the survivors. There isn't, and shouldn't be, I do X and thus I win strategy.
Let's take the scenario of you hit a survivor, they get to the hook and unhook before you can make it for a trade, and now the one with BT is bodyblocking.
If they block a doorway, count to ten.
If they don't block a doorway, try to move around them.
Or swing through the endurance, put them into a mending state, and choose who you want to chase. Is this a good of an outcome as a down, obviously not, but it shouldn't be because its a much more straight forward action.
Whatever they do you have ways to respond, and whatever you do they have ways to respond. That's what makes it a game.
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Obviously its STBFL, oh wait that got nerfed
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