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The Hillbilly Feedback
Comments
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This is what Billy for a newer Billy player looks like. On PC.
Nat has upwards of 4k hours in DBD, on surv and mostly huntress + nurse. She tried Billy for the first time post buff here.
I don't think this looks "so good that it becomes their basic attack the entire match", assuming your statement even aligns with BHVR's design choice for special attacks.
The amount of hours someone has to put into the Hillbilly killer to get satisfactory results with his special attack is not insignificant. It sounds like you're getting dunked on by good Billies and you don't like it.
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I wasn't questioning you.
Dood, you asked me to supply data for my personal experience like at least 3 times during over conversation tonight.
What do you EVEN mean, "I wasn't questioning you." That is exactly what questioning IS.
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I'm just appalled and not all that shocked that you just jump from Killer Thread to killer thread instantly asking for them to make the changes not go live yet before its even happened. This killer is NOT broken and I dont even play him. I main Sadako, and gosh I hope you dont think she is broken too.. 7 out of 10 games I played against Billy I was able to escape. One of them was a P75...you have to learn how to loop and counter that killer and I believe this was also mentioned to you today as well against trickster.
With Billy you have to find a tile, a loop, obstacles, twalls, pallets, window, something tangible to use before he gets to you in chase. After that its not that bad at all. Billy is in the best spot hes ever been in, and its kinda frustrating respectfully that you are already asking for a nerf on something you dont know how to counter because likely you are treating him like old bully which was generally an easy gg for the survivors.
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I've found myself playing other games more often since the Hillbilly changes. This killer just is not fun to play against at all now. I'd rather take a leaver penalty and play something else than deal with this. Please stop designing overpowered killers. They are not fun to play against. Every freaking chase is nothing but a chainsaw sprint now. I'm over it.
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I guarantee you this does not reflect the experience of most Hillbilly players. I remember when I decided to play Myers just so I could spook survivor players with gen grabs. I never put any BPs into him or used any perks. He's been level 1 since I bought him. After just a few hours of playing him I felt like I mastered the killer. Now imagine someone who actually plays killer mainly who uses all the best perks, addons and tries their best to win. Now imagine that killer gets a massive buff to their power and addons. You can see how that would be the best day ever for those killer mains right? But it becomes the worst day ever for the survivors who have to go up against them. This is a terrible example to justify the power level of this killer now.
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Well, I don't jump thread to thread doing what you said I'm doing. I think I've made maybe less than 10 posts about Hillbilly lately if that? Giving my opinion on the killer in the spotlight at the moment isn't a bad thing. You just seemed worried I and others may influence them not to keep these changes. I don't post here nearly as much as I used to but maybe I should because after all it is the player/customer who matters most at the end of the day. If they make changes I deem unfair in a game I've spent the past 3 years playing I am going to talk about it regardless how you or anyone else feels. If that "appalls" you then thats not my problem. This is a feedback thread. I'm here to give my feedback so the people who make this game can know how I feel about it.
Hillbilly feels like a variation of leatherface now. Before his chainsaw gave him insane map traversal with the ability to down a survivor that got in his path. Now the chainsaw is everywhere. He gains too much reward from using it all the time now. If his chainsaw wasn't an instant down and instead applied other effects this wouldn't be a problem. Instant down powers offer an insane power advantage to killers and if you pair that with super fast map traversal well you may as well just be a speed hacking leatherface at that point.
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I actually suggested I think in another thread some changes to his power that I think would be more fair than what he has. All I can do is give me feedback like you or anyone else. What happens at the end of the day is completely up to the devs. Its actually very good we have a place to post and communicate with the devs of the game and have the opportunity to influence change for better balance.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
It still seems like 99% of the time his Chainsaw is just used for mobility. I rarely use it for downs and to break pallets. If you hold your Chainsaw at a loop, the survivor just keeps running because most of the time, you can't reach them with the Chainsaw.
Post edited by adsads123123123123 on1 -
I wrote a list of add-ons that could use some changes (with my suggested changes) as well as add-ons that could use recommissioning over the recently added dissipation add-ons.
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You can post all you want that’s fine respectfully but it’s survivors similar to you that damp a killers power because you don’t know how to counter them or bother to learn it. I urge you instead of posting on the forums learn first, adapt. It’s been 24 hours since release..
but somehow that’s the killer fault. After three years, you should know better.
you were just complaining about trickster and now you’re complaining about Billy. @FreeKnives and here we go again.
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Nerf Billy....already? Honestly, they have been in a bad spot for a long time....Let BHVR cook....Let Billy breathe....
Maybe they should have a mode for casual players with no BP, no rank, no gens...just about you and the killer and the engagement. IDk. I hear prop hunt is fun. But like Mech said he's only been out for 24 hours....and Im sure good survivors will start to figure him out, if they havent already and counter him as they always do, given time to learn the right counterplay.
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You are completely overreacting... Billy is probably at the bottom of A tier now, around Huntress, he is nowhere near as overpowered as you make him out to be and the extra speed he gets in overdrive makes curving really hard, some tiles probably even not curveable anymore. Besides that the cooldown addons don't even work on overdrive.
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The chainsaw being everywhere was always the whole part about Billy... What do you even mean?
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I used to be chased by hillbilly using his M1. He would usually use his chainsaw for map traversal or in open spaces without pallets or loops. Now people use his chainsaw all the time. Its actually become rare for him to use his M1 over the chainsaw. Now its map traversal and his main attack against survivors in most situations. It also just so happens to be an instant down. The last thing survivors needed or wanted was another instant down killer getting big buffs.
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Then that was not a good Billy dude... Good Billy players have always mainly used to chainsaw, as this is his chase ability. This is nothing new... Curve Billy has always been a thing and being mad about a killer using his ability to get a down seems a bit off... I don't know what to tell you. Billy was in the bottom third of killers before that buff and has always been a fun and interactive killer, I don't know what you mean by people didn't want him to get buffed? Basically everyone was annoyed by the rework from the beginning and it still took them so long to change it again.
Unlike other killers Billy's curving tends to always give you an option, Go wide or go close when he is trying to curve and your decision really matters. There aren't that many killers about which you can say this these days. Billy is just great design and it is good to see that the hardest killer in the game is finally worth the effort again.
Just to make this clear... Are you really assuming that even good players barely used his chainsaw before the rework? Because that is just not true and you might want to look at some older videos/streams of for example Hens or Gtvel, because as I already said, they mainly use the chainsaw. Sorry to bring it to you, but that has always been the case. Billy has always been constantly use chainsaw for everything, which overheat restricted and Bubba was the less chainsaw intensive killer. That is just the way it is, was and always has been.
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New Hillbilly is so close to perfect. Only a few small tweaks are needed.
- Increase Billy's basekit chainsaw sprint turn rate to help him navigate all the clutter on the new/reworked maps just a little better.
- Make it so when overdrive is fully powered up, it doesn't automatically activate. This can throw off curves, turns, etc. if overdrive kicks in at the wrong time. Instead allow the player to activate overdrive manually with the secondary power button during the time window before the heat starts dissipating. This should be able to be done while not using the chainsaw, while charging the chainsaw, and during the chainsaw sprint for versatility.
- A lot of the overdrive add-ons are redundant or useless. Please consolidate and improve some of them and give us back some of the older add-ons like leafy mash and mother's helpers. Also remove the movement speed penalty for the tuned carburetor (give it a different downside if needed) and make is so filthy slippers activates any time you're chainsaw sprinting (no 2 second activation time).
- A small visual feedback improvement that could be made would be to have the chainsaw glow the old orange color when it's heating up, have it turn blue when overdrive is available (assuming you can manually activate it as I suggested), and have it shoot the blue flames when overdrive is engaged.
That's everything from me. Hope this feedback helps and great job overall on this Billy rework!
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Dear bHVR, Do NOT forget to look at other people are saying are saying about the hardships about the Billy update.
Don't just look at what Hillbilly mains say and what they want, this game is for all of us, its us who are forced to play this game against Hillbillys so it needs to be at least manageable. I saw on twitter, a lot of people are coming in here to drown out others personal experience by telling them theirs. Please remember that does not make the first person's experience invalid.
Just saying, "Oh you just have a skill issue" is just toxic and it does not make meaningful counterplay magically appear for that person. Come on guys PLEASE, We ought to be better than this.
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I'm so amazed we're at a point where survivors are begging for killers to be forced to M1 all the time. The reason killers have unique powers is so they can use them. Each power has a different counter play that you have to learn. M1 is supposed to be a back up if the survivor is counter playing PERFECTLY and you need pressure on them.
Examples:
Someone running around a large rock with Huntress. How do you get them to move? You m1 them.
Someone repeatedly vaulting T&L as Bubba, you m1 them to make them leave if you aren't able to get the chainsaw down.
Someone pre-drops safely and is very unpredictable, or knows tiles that have bad collision when versing you as Billy? You M1. In the vast majority of these games, I have not experienced people do this at all. I've had maybe 5 survivors since his buff that do this and you know what? I have to M1 them or leave them, because the chase is taking too long. Crazy, I know.
Killers are supposed to use their power as their main attack, so please stop trying to get Billy nerfed to where he's constantly forced to M1. Billy is massively reliant on map RNG / Collision and survivor mistakes. Once you understand proper counter play it is MUCH harder for Billy to get a down with his saw and he'll force you away from rough tiles by M1ing you.
The unfortunate truth is, because the massive amount of anti-loop killers we've had over the last few years, people have gotten complacent with just pre-drop + shift w winning the chase for them. Billy is from before this worked against most killers and having him buffed is showing you that he is the type of killer you cannot do this against, but you haven't learned that.
I'm not even shaming skill level here, I'm simply explaining, you need to adapt. What works against the majority of the roster does not work against Billy, but he has ample counter play when you do learn how to verse him.
I will repeat once again, miss recovery after LoPro when paired with Thompson's mix is overtuned, and so are double stack recovery add-ons. You're not seeing Billy players run those, because they want something OP, they're running them for two reasons.
- They made the majority of his add-ons boring/useless (Billy players begged to have the add-ons looked at on the PTB, so we could keep variety, since the point of this rework was to make him feel better and not tied to two sets of add-ons.)
- Removing the movement after bonking (even if slow) makes that + his new stun animation feel pretty bad, so the recovery add-ons make up for how bad that feels overall. Even if it's not FOR THIS, it makes him feel less like a slap to the face when you bonk, because you know if you don't bonk, you aren't as hard punished. Re-adding the movement + no camera lock after bonking, then nerfing recovery add-ons / the way they effect LoPro would make him feel MUCH better for both sides.
Since his creation Billy has been a killer with massive map-wide mobility and strong chase potential IF THE SURVIVOR MESSES UP. Unfortunately, when he was nerfed into the ground it left even the most skilled Billy players unable to punish survivor mistakes a lot of the time, because of how stacked maps are now. The map design for Billy has been such a rough thing, because over the years maps have gotten MUCH safer, and his nerf became EVEN MORE painful. This buff allows him to actually play maps now without being tied to the same add-ons permanently.
Besides his add-ons, it is just VERY CLEAR most of you do not understand how to verse Billy, since he was almost non-existent and you need time to learn. He requires patience in chase and not just pre-drop + shift w, or he will punish you for it. Chainsaw in Overdrive IS VERY HARD to control, so be unpredictable. Pre-drop and avoid a LoPro hit by not being next to the pallet after it's dropped. If there are a lot of obstacles between you and Billy, you can pretend to play a tile and LEAVE, this will make him waste a lot of time trying to mind game for an instant down. THERE IS A LOT OF COUNTER PLAY, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT, YET! Not to mention the fact that still in 2024, you can crouch tech Billy, which is crazy - just, the majority of you have no idea how that works.
You know things are bad when the Legion main comes to the Billy thread to defend him.
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I really want to emphasize something Archol says here, "Unlike other killers Billy's curving tends to always give you an option, Go wide or go close when he is trying to curve and your decision really matters. There aren't many killers about which you can say this these days. Billy is just great design and it is good to see that the hardest killer in the game is finally worth the effort again."
This is the exact reason Billy is and has been my FAVORITE killer to verse for years. You are downed, because of your own mistakes. There is always player agency in every chase. You are able to completely change the outcome by playing well. Even a curve that seems almost GUARANTEED, can be deleted from you being unpredictable. There are not many killers in the game that you can say the choice of how the chase goes is almost completely up to you, but you can with Billy. There is not some passive mechanic like Wesker Hinder, etc that can change the chase. It is purely based on if Billy or the survivor plays better. Unfortunately, pre-buff Billy could not always take advantage of a survivor mistake, because over the years maps have become much more stacked, so people didn't have to learn how to verse him. This update simply brought him to 2024, so he's playable again.
Based on the ridiculous amount of people that I see hop locker when not trying to force a bonk from Billy, but simply wait out his chainsaw, I think a lot of people just think Billy is FAST BUBBA and it couldn't be further from the truth. There is so much room to punish Billy, and you will see that if you learn his counter play.
I feel like I have to state this in every post - BASE-KIT BILLY IS NOT OP - LoPro+Thompson's Mix Recovery / Double stacked recovery add-ons are over tuned. PLEASE DO NOT NERF HIS BASE RECOVERY! Myself and many other Billy mains have given you ample feedback on what is needed to make him feel better, but not be broken.
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Emeal is famous for this. Literally, this is pretty much how they always respond to everything.
I'm both. I'm a survivor and killer main. I'm giving a balanced take on the issues with Billy, so if you want someone that is being unbiased and telling you how it is, I'm right here. There is a good chance you saw my post on Twitter, and if so, I was not telling Billy mains to tell everyone how wrong they are, I was telling them to not sit back and make sure to give their feedback, so it's not just people who are new to versing Billy giving their opinions on the matter.
For example, the person in this thread saying that they want Billy to only use saw for mobility and m1 them at tiles. That's just silly and not how Billy has ever been designed. The only reason people saw that was because of how hard Billy was to pick up in general and some people needed to do challenges/achievements, so that's how they played him. People are giving up verse Billy, because they do not understand his counter play, yet and are treating him like every other killer they verse, so they're getting destroyed. People need time to adjust to new Billy (with the tweaks I've mentioned), and they will see that the chase is completely dependent on their mistakes. New Billy has just been given the tools to actually capitalize on the mistakes even with how stacked new maps are. However, his add-ons should be tweaked, so that when a survivor outplays them, they are punished for it.
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Speak for yourself. I love going up against the new Billy and his chainsaw! It’s thrilling! The counters are there too! Before you say I just play killer I hit Iri1 last week. (Also every season as survivor) I just get there first as killer lol.
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Just. Do. Not. Touch. Him.
It doesn't require any changes, except for the nerf of the throttle and the mix, which is already written in the description of these addons
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"I'm so amazed we're at a point where survivors are begging for killers to be forced to M1 all the time....."
I want to high-five you. I will just stand up and clap instead..... SO ON POINT.
Makes me think of BHVR's words at Trickster PTB... "you know whats better than throwing knives, throwing more knives" was them being excited about a killers power and encouraging the killer to use their power...before those words were removed in the update. Because it was the opposite in reality.
I know little to nothing about Billy except going against him mainly. But I can say old Billy was boring to go against, and I think because he had so much counterplay against him.
I went up against two Billy's last night. First time with new Billy. I died, and I had fun. Second time I could have gotten out, but I did the watch-me-leave thing at gate and learned a valuable lesson, that he moves really fast with that chainsaw LOL. I love going against new Billy. Its exciting. So much personality from the Billy Mains too.
This can apply to Killer mains, but when it comes to being the loudest and slower at getting their balancing changes...Survivors do have more weight. So survivors who only play survivor really should be encouraged to play more killer more often. Many do a challenge and then farm the rest of the match, which doesn't help them understand the pain points of different killers. So much of their complaints is not understanding the killer they complain about, the role or their power.
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how can you guys say that billy is in perfect spot if playing against him is miserable and he is stomping every game on pub
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Probably because people never really learned how to play against him, because nobody ever played him and now the Billy players, that actually know what they are doing just roll over everyone.
In the right hands the killer was still usable, but really hard and easily outperformed by other killers, but now he is rather strong, therefore demolishing people who have no clue what they are doing. He is still not as OP as some people make him out to be, he is probably nowhere near Nurse or Blight.
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I don't know Billy well enough to put my finger on it exactly - but all the matches I had during the past couple days were pretty much rinse and repeat: Bam window if there is a window to bam. Then walk down surv with ready-to-go-chainsaw until they're sniffing up your butt and down them (or eat a pallet if there's still a pallet left).
Like I said, I don't know if it's up to the addons they got or something else - but it hasn't exactly felt... inspired or exciting.
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I don't really see how that is something new to Billy in the sense of it being something that is only possible because of the changes?
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Like I said; I don't know Billy well enough to put my finger on it. - But it is a new experience. The Billies I'm used to seeing had a certain kind of dedication about them and were usually rewarded for their Billy specific knowledge. - They couldn't follow you around a tile like a lost puppy with a readied chainsaw. But that's what I'm seeing a lot ever since new Billy went live.
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But Billy still gets slowed down when revving the saw, what you are describing seems more like newer players trying to learn how to use the saw and overusing it? I don't see any problem with that?
Before the rework Billy was the hardest killer in the game and probably in the bottom third of killers when it comes to strength, and now he is a really good killer, like top third, and people want to learn him I guess? It is kind of fair... The amount of training you had to put into Billy for that little strength was quite out of balance...
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Same reason survivors defended things like dead hard. People just like being OP and will get out of their way to downplay how OP things that benefit them are. We still have people who act like Nurse and Blight aren't a problem which should tell you all you need to know about the DBD community. A lot of people in this game only play one side and can't really see things from the perspective of the other side.
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His recovery time after missed chainsaw is almost non existent. In last few days I had around 10 matches against Billy and they all ended in 4k. Only difference was that some Billies were nice enough not to slug at 5 gens. Also I think his overdrive shouldn’t accumulate while not in chase.
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The issue with that is; if learning the killer yields nearly as good of a result as playing well, something is probably off. If it's a certain build (where a killer should reasonably lose a match simply because it takes them too long to down a surv that way - but certain perk combos still allow it or where a killer should miss with the M2 but thanks to some add-ons it's kinda inconsequential) or if it's once again down to maps (it's all good and well that billy needs one more lap to catch up - but that doesn't mean a surv has any chance to get away; they stay on the loop billy catches up eventually, they leave the loop they will get downed and even baiting doesn't help because even with the penalty from missing the situation doesn't actually change).
And just so that we're on the same page: I'm not saying that Billy is overtuned or in a bad spot - just that the changes to him have lead - for one reason or the other - to a certain game experience that I wouldn't exactly describe as fun. This is a feedback threaad and this is also feedback. - It's a way of asking the devs to look into the causes of that situation.
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As a Billy main that hit 10k saw downs just before the new year, I could easily play Billy for 13 hours straight and not think twice.
I haven't played as much with Overdrive or the new add ons as much as many of the other experienced Billy players but I cant help but notice how frustrating Overdrive actually is.
What Ive noticed is it builds up way too fast and doesn't lower quick enough for it to be actively managed, meaning its almost constantly a factor which doesn't sound bad on paper. In practice, Overdrive changes the core mechanic that many of us are used to as it effects the turn rate. The Billys power works in overdrive can make shorter turns much harder to land and 180's can feel impossible by comparison to the normal chainsaw power.
Another issue with Overdrive that I have seen mentioned by others but when in overdrive it feels like you slide off survivors way more than you should be. Realistically this could be connected to ping and not a mechanic issue - Increased speed/ ping based location but it should still be looked into.
The bump animation is now horrible (mentioned in a few of the above)
Some collision issues definitely still exist but I will say for the most part it feels like an improvement across the field.
Overdrive Suggestion:
- Button prompt to activate (suggested by many) or
- Have a higher threshold for activation and/or make the cooldown faster that way its something you can access if you want but if you don't you can avoid going into it with active management of the heat bar.
A better management tool and a fix to the sensitivity issues around overdrive and I think Id be able to enjoy just as much as I could or maybe more.
(I have literally only ran basekit since the change, so no add ons are effecting this. Purely observations about the power itself).
Finally,
Thank you BHVR for giving our boy the attention he deserves, just needs a few more tweaks but genuinely you're doing good work. :)
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Billy feels AMAZING to play as. I've never played him much since the Overheat rework because he was too hard and clunky to use, now he's one of my go to Killers for a fun and high adrenaline game. Honestly rivals Killers like Blight and Wesker in terms of fun factor.
As for strength, it's still too early to say in my opinion. His map pressure and mobility is crazy on open outdoor maps, but he's still usable on narrower indoor maps like Gideon. Honestly he might have the best mobility compared to all other Killers, but his chainsaw is difficult to control making him less effective in loops, jungle gyms, T-L walls etc. I predict he'll be in a perfect spot strength wise, he has powerful mobility and a one-shot threat but it's hard to control and use effectively in chase, which Survivors can use to outplay him.
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But A. How would we now already know that that is the case? All we have is different people from different skill brackets with more or less of an idea what to do against Billy, I don't see a reason yet to think there is an issue to begin with. What do you mean by a similar result here? There are big differences between a 4k and a 4k,if you are only looking at the result you are missing the important part of how we got there.
And B. Even if that was the case why exactly would it be an issue? We have skill based matchmaking... If you have never touched Billy before your MMR is somewhat in the middle if you have played other killers to a higher mmr (as far as I am aware, correct me if I am wrong here) so just because you as a beginner are able to 4k against mid survivors does not mean this is the same result as for example Hens who does the same thing... Just because you got the same result does not mean anything.
Other than that I don't really get your point about perks and addons here, because what you are describing is basically what they are for... Game delay perks are for you to have more time to get a down... Addons usually improve your power to either give you hits where you would not get them with basekit or enable different strategies to be viable.
As for the next example of Billy will catch up and you cannot get away... Yes that is generally a thing with high mobility killers... However the point is you don't need to leave the loop... You can still loop it... If the Billy is trying to curve you there you can still outplay him by going wide or going close, it just that you have a higher density of chase interaction, if you like it or not is something else, but I don't think that's a bad thing... The same thing applies to other killers, Nemesis, Alien, Deaths linger and so on... All killers with an anti loop power with a rather short cooldown, often times you won't be able to leave the loop unless they had to break the pallet or one is really close by, however you can still use the current loop until they are forced to break the pallet...
I mean monitoring something is not necessarily a bad thing... However if this is an issue that is worth being monitored that closely then so are many other things... And I don't think the system is supposed to address such a wide range of things ^^
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He still has to charge his saw though unlike every other killer. Alien for example could just tail you again, but billy has to spend time charging his saw again, he cant just insta saw you after a miss.
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You mention something here as well that I think a lot of newer players aren't used to, because the massive amount of anti-loop that has been added. YOU CAN LOOP THE TILE!
Sometimes leaving is the best decision, but a lot of the time, not insta dropping the pallet and leaving is best against Billy. You can keep him very busy at strong tiles by being unpredictable at them. Don't always run the same way through a jungle gym, sometimes run inside or out.
His curving massively relies on predictability, but if you constantly leave tiles after you drop the pallet? That's predictable. He will use his chainsaw to catch up and down you in the open, but EVEN THAT is still dependent on how you react and if Overdrive procs, because both of those things can change how easy it is to simply back rev you.
Rapid unpredictable sways if they're in Overdrive can be hard to deal with, or simply just doing something that makes zero sense will often catch them off guard.
Billy truly has the most player agency in the game, you just don't know it, yet.
I've said multiple times already how the issue with Billy right now is people don't understand how to vs him, yet and also LoPro/Tmix - Double Stack recovery is over tuned.
However, this is another part of it. People are forgetting that just because he misses, it doesn't mean he can insta saw you, he still has a few seconds before that is even possible. You have time to change the outcome of the chase, or drop a pallet.
Not always, obviously, but good Billys are already very good at zoning survivors, because they had to be before he was buffed, or they'd never get downs.
You can also visually see Billy revving his saw, unlike Xeno with zero feedback of if they will M1 or M2 (I still hate this, but this isn't a Xeno feedback thread).
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@Lynnziezie is probably one of the best hillbilly players currently, please listen to their feedback.
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The hillbilly is the most broken killer in this game and it isnt even fair BHVR, what are we thinking BUFFING him is fine, but to have the killer hit trees like he is playing fortnite and him just able to up the chainsaw after every time he misses the survivor is just not making the killer fair. Just not being able to get as much distance between him before he is able to up the chainsaw after he misses the survivor when the survivor either vaults, and or tries to run away to get distance when hillbilly misses with the chainsaw. I think it is to forgiving and should have maybe a little cooldown rather him being able to up the chainsaw after he misses the survivor.
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I also lost a RAINBOW map due to THIS TERRIBLE re work of hilly and I think I should be able to get that back because it is making me not enjoy this game and wanting to refund the game and just call it a day. PLEASE BHVR listen to us, just make the hillbilly have a little cool down when he misses the survivor.
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I agree. If he could just right click to saw you then it would obviously be way overpowered, but his chainsaw charge time is essentially his recovery. If we compare bubba as well to similar situations like being in a dead zone, bubba will always down you there unless he bumps, so a billy even if he misses once is getting the same result as bubba.
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Homie is going all out on something as if it was a huge issue or a debate - when it is neither.
Feedback is where you give an opinion, an impression, anything really is possible. That's all I did here. Is it worth monitoring? I don't know. I kinda expect devs to monitor the overall vibe. - If a lot of people have the same impression of Billy then maybe the sheer amount of people of the non-henses who just don't have a remotely decent match experience is the reason why the devs take notice / why they take a look at how Billy fares when going against various skill brackets. - Sure, 3k vs the non-henses and 0k against the henses still averages out above the desired killrate... but that's not how it works (I hope, anyhow ^^).
Either way - I think all points have been made and going on about it doesn't actually serve a purpose that fits the feedback thread. If in doubt: agree to disagree. - Have a good one 🤗
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Insta-down mechanics usually are not fun, even the likes of Bubba has to work for it, he can't just zoom across the map in mere seconds. Billy needs some fine tuning just to balance a few things.
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I think he's in a really good spot as base-kit, but his add-ons are really problematic:
- Cooldown add-ons have to go: not reduced numbers, not reduced conditions, they just have to go. Greased Throttle and Thompson Mix need changes.
- Turning rate add-ons have to be looked at: The turning offered by the combo is too much and allows to correct the trajectory mid-run too easily. Overdrive chainsaws are already hard to dodge if not with a predict, but turning add-ons make that close to impossible. Turning add-ons also allow weird interactions like going around a full Haddonfield building without ever stopping. This kind of interaction makes building up Overdrive too easy with no efforts.
- Lopro Chains have to still be a thing? I would suggest making these work only in normal saw and not in Overdrive. Overdrive is good enough by itself to counter a loop. His base-kit is solid enough now that extra-help feels unnecessary.
While the Turning rate should just be looked at for potential problems, cooldown add-ons are definitely problematic.
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What kind of use full addon do you aim for then? Because those mentioned are basically everything he s got? I mean this in the sense of what effects could use full addons for Hillbilly have that are not situational, meme like, or require you to change the normal curve playstyle completely.
The one point I agree on is lopro... I don't like the design of the addon, and basically already didn't like it before the change, because it puts players into lose lose situations...
But then again, what potential effects could addons for Hillbilly have? I would for example like some good brown addons like 5% speed (does not work in overdrive and 5% faster chainsaw Rev (does not work in overdrive) .... I mean sure we could slap status effects on chainsaw hits, but that is just really boring...
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Great buff, very refreshing and I'm a survivor main that never plays Billy !
One thing to nerf MODERATELY : the cooldown of a "miss" chainsaw sprint, or the movement speed (2.38 m/s might be a bit too high).
My suggestions, you could go for basekit nerf :
- From 2.7 to 2.85 secs.
- From 2.38 m/s to 2m/s.
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About turning rate, that simply doesn't work in Overdrive. Making it work like before is fine.
Cooldown is broken, missing a chainsaw is too rewarded, same for breaking a pallet.
Lopro, if these work only out of Overdrive, are fine.
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I partially agree with your first point, but not the rest.
The way Tmix interacts with LoPro is a huge issue, but this is because the way LoPro activates was changed this patch, and the extra c/d reduction happening with it is making it miserable. Tmix+C/D addons should NOT apply to LoPro, but they do. The same goes for, those c/d add-ons are applying to Overdrive right now and they should not be per the descriptions.
Turning rate (boots) add-ons have ALWAYS let you zoom around Haddonfield, or Ormond, etc...the thing is, before Overdrive, any build around "Drift Billy" was useless. You'd be lucky to get 3 hooks with those kind of builds, including Stealth Billy, because he was SO SLOW. Now Drift Billy isn't insanely strong, but it's actually a viable play style for more than 3 hooks on very unaware survivors. Drift Billy truly is the chillest form of Billy, because they aren't using LoPro, Engraving, or Recovery to help in chase, they're relying on sniping downs and praying that Overdrive procs at the right time to be able to catch a survivor off guard. Not to mention, if you aren't running Apex/Boots, it's ridiculously hard to catch survivors off guard with standard Drift Billy, which is why these add-ons are balanced when combined. To put in perspective how chill most people are with those add-ons, my friend WhiteNoiseDesign often does steering wheel Billy with those add-ons (pre-billy buff), because it was fun to "cruise". Nobody runs them together to try hard.
If someone is using double boots for curving, they're just kind of hurting themselves. The initial sens period will always be MUCH more turn rate than anything boots will do, so they should learn how to do that.
When it comes to Lo Pro, I think it's fine when not combined with Tmix. It's freeing to not feel like I permanently have to run Brutal Strength - It literally has not left my perks for the last 2 years. It's nice to feel like I can mix it up and run LoPro if I want and still run "double engravings", or something else, because I've always enjoyed Doubles Billy more and never got to run LoPro if I wanted to do that, but now I can.
LoPro is very strong, but it only feels ridiculously strong right now, because of Tmix being combined with it. I don't know how different it is in different regions, but every single match I play as Billy (been this way for years) 3/4 survivors minimum pre-drop pallets constantly. If it's not a curvable tile / they shift w to each new pallet to pre-drop..I either have to permanently give up a slot for Brutal again, or run LoPro. LoPro really does have a lot of counter play, but most people are just not good at doing it , yet and I can 100% agree it feels terrible to outplay LoPro right now and with Tmix, they just turn around and either M1 or back rev you.
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Pallet break speed did not get touched though? Or am I missing something? It should also not be that much different compared to Bubba.
As for the turn rate I don't know how much it got changed if even?
I have to disagree there, I don't think missing is rewarded... Just because the penalty is not as bad as it used to be... You still only get an opportunity not really anything else by missing a chainsaw just barely... And that is somewhat fine.
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I don't think billy is strong enough vs top 1% of players. Here's two buffs that to make him viable vs top 1%.
1) Overdrive:
Decreases chainsaw charge time increased from 5% -> 15%.
2) Tuning guide no longer decreases hillbilly movement speed to 4.4.
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