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Anybody hitting the gen regression limit fast with Jolt?
In my matches where I didn't bring jolt but did bring other gen regression perks not once did I hit the gen regression limit, but every game I played with it I hit the limit fast. Anybody else?
Comments
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I get the warning sounds, but I don't actually hit the limit.
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I've hit the limit once using Oppression/Kicks. Evidently Oppression really hated that gen or something.
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Easy to near that limit inside Gideon.
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I've hit the cap on at least one gen every game with surge, it's ridiculous
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Don't even get me started on the indoor maps, during the ptb i never brought jolt so i didn't think it was a problem....
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question is in how far it had a meaningful impact on the match
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Oppression doesn’t count as a regression event aside from the one you kicked.
So don’t blame Oppression when you’re the one who hated the gen >:(
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Been hitting max regression events with surge quite regularly despite not being in a 3 gen situation. It's frustrating. I don't even have room to use kick non regression perks like nowhere to hide.
I've had to second guess myself multiple times if it's even worth regressing certain gens out of fear they'll lock up later during the endgame, so yes, I'd say it's making a meaningful impact. I've also had a key gen be unregressable that ended up causing me a lose a match because the survivors kept hiding near it when I'd approach then hop back on it the moment I'd leave.
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I've never hit it even with regression perks.
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I had a game before as blight where all 4 pain res tokens hit the exact same gen
and when I went later to apply pop I was like….wait when did I hit this gen just to realize that this was the only gen in the game that had the highest progress and kept losing its progress with every single token I used
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If you're getting that much benefit out of jolt, then you're already winning regardless of whether you've hit the regression limit or not.
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whoa whoa whoa I was assured by survivor mains this would never happen????
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surge definitely hits the limit pretty quick.
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I don't really get it though. You'd have to hit jolt 4 times, pr 2 times and then kick it two more times. That in itself is hard to do on one gen but how would you need more than that?
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Or perhaps Jolt is so powerful that able to regress multiple Gens 8 times in a match.
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Meanwhile…. I still have yet to kick a gen, and my pain res hooks are usually not optimal for hooking… what are you guys doing? Lol
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Only times I've hit the cap or seen the cap hit has been when Surge is being ran. It'd be nice if something could change in that regard whether it's adjusting the system or buffing that perk.
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Even with surge, I have only seen the warning spikes but so far I haven't reached a full block
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Its taking away a strategic decision (which gens to do and which not) from survivors and transfering it to killers who already have shitloads of micromanaging to do.
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The system should just kick in if 1 gen is left to do. It doesnt make sense that regression Events are counted b4 a 3 gen is even possible.
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Cn only erupt 4 times.
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Good!
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Sounds like you've got at least 8 downs... aren't you close to winning at this point?
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Nope. I use Surge fairly regularly and I haven't seen any gen hit the limit yet.
I've seen the early warning spikes a few times, and I wonder if some people mistake that for the regression limit, particularly if they're using things like Surge instead of manually kicking a gen, in which case you wouldn't necessarily know that the spikes meant you can still kick it.
Having the system in play before the final gen actually puts the onus on the survivors to break a 3 gen early.
If it only kicked in at the last gen, then the killer would be able to camp out a 3 gen from the start of the game. Survivor's wouldn't be able to make progress there so would ultimately just ignore the 3 gen and repair the other four first. Leading to a dull game for everyone with a 3 gen standoff at the end, even if it's not an infinite stalemate.
Instead survivors now have incentive to try to break the killers 3 gen early on, because they have the regression limit to fall back on. This gives the killer greater pressure in defending gens at the start of the game instead of allowing survivors to just abandon gens until the first four are repaired.
The goal of gen defence isn't to perpetually halt repair progress, it's to lure survivors into compromising positions so you can score downs.
If you're doing that effectively, you won't ever need 8 regression events, particularly when it comes to down-triggered regression events like Surge, Eruption, Pop and Pain Res.
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Never happened to me tho.
I am using PR + Pop and Nowhere to Hide and never got to max limit. Only sound warning sometimes.
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if you regressed a gen 8 times, it means that gen took practically the same time to repair 2 generators... isn't that enough?🤔
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Interesting posts.
Some people who have posted in this thread constantly complain that rounds are over in 5 minutes and they cant catch a survivor and then the exact same people say they reach 8 regressions on a single gen!
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Wait, really?
Dang, F that gen I guess! It kept being low but kicking it let me activate my Oppression on other gens.
Although that's good to know Oppression doesn't count to the 8 kicks and does explain why I've only seen the blocker stuff once...
EDIT: You know, now that I think about that match, this does make sense. There were two BPS in play and one survivor AFK so while I didn't FARM Farm, I did my normal setup in these matches where I play normal but don't actually death hook survivors. So I was kicking gens a lot more as I just broke off chases really quick if I saw a unkicked gen.
Post edited by tippy2k2 on1 -
Exactly this. If you’re regressing a single gen 8 times, you’ve already wasted at the very least 40 seconds of their time and realistically more than likely over a full gen of time. You’re already winning / won at that point. Not to mention you saying jolt as the culprit which requires you to down them in the first place. This seems like a steamroll of a match and the gen blocking more than likely had zero effect on the match.
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FTP + Buckle Up would like to have a word with you-
In all seriousness though the concerns people had with the new gen system when it comes to Surge and Eruption are still showing to be completely valid so far. And not even that, but this "anti-3 gen system" isn't really doing much because Skull Merchants are still able to hold 3 gens despite the changes albeit not as powerful yet still able to stall the game out for a while with the right gen spawns and such(and as a Skull Merchant main I can confirm this). At this point they just need to exclude perk procs from the new gen system since, as of rn, the main perks for holding a 3 gen as Skull Merchant is just simply Overcharge and Call Of Brine which don't even have perk procs. They just get applied to a gen that you kick which is different.
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Just my opinion but if you're hitting 8 regression events on a single gen, you're either hyper-fixating or stomping them, even with surge and pain res proccing. 8 regression events is a lot and will more than likely equate to a full gen of time. Not to mention that surge is kind of just a cherry on top perk anyway, you have to have it add to the regression counter or else there's no point of having the change. Regression events moving from 2.5% per kick to 5% is a flat buff outright, you have to make regression events relevant or else there's no point.
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One of the top players in the world had a 4 down and still didn't win the match at only getting a 2k. A down does not mean a hook. Streamed it not too long ago.
If it's indeed supposed to only stop people who just sit at the 3 gen at the beginning of the match and refuse to chase and down people, then they should drop it to 6 events and have it reset after hooking someone.
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Thats... an odd statement dude... I am not sure of the relevance but fine I'll respond...
Whatever the result of the kills in this game with 4 downs was, an exception doesn't refute a trend. If the killer has a lot of pressure on downs, it can snowball hard in the killers favour.
There is the question in your argument that 4 downs does not equate to 8... At 8 downs you should in majority of cases have at least 4 hooks, if not 6, 7 or 8, unless you're going on huge slugging sprees or survivors are constantly making saves. The slugging sprees tend to be on non-m1 killers, and Surge only works off m1s; and if the survivors are constantly making saves around the same 3 gens, then they should be winning. Both scenarios here, where gens are being blocked are still within reasonable parameters for the game.
8 downs should mean in the vast majority of games you likely have someone close to death hook or tunneled out already... but if you've spent the game holding a 3-gen and Surge has built up 8 regressions worth for you, then you should be a pretty commanding position at this point. Is it possible to not be? Yes of course... but as I say an exception doesn't disprove a trend.
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Downs don't equal hooks. A somewhat decent group has options to prevent it. Sabo hooks, flashlight saves, body blocking the killer and taking hits, BU+FTP, Boil Over + camping high areas, etc. Against a good group you can get a lot of downs but securing hooks can be problematic. There's also issues like hook spawns sticking the killer with dead zones right away.
Depends on killer, of course. For example, Pyramid Head may not have this problem if you've gotten the survivors to run through some trails. Though that presents its own issues, as hook perks don't proc on cages.
Not really, particularly on indoor maps. A survivor could've only gotten a few percent on some gens, but when Surge goes off it'll still hit the gen. Over and over and over. I've done this for shiz n giggles playing survivor on indoor maps vs killers running Surge, when there's some good saves going on or the killer is screwed by RNG like on Midwich. Running around and getting a little on a bunch of gens that are likely to be hit by Surge started and keep repairing them up after. It winds up being a troll session as the killer's both having hook issues and can't kick many gens anymore.
In Gideon's it's a riot. Some survivors deliberately go down near the middle of the map on either floor, other survivors feed the killer pallets (even if it's just to block movement) and blinds/sabo'd hooks on the way to a hook and let Surge hit the 8 limit on the entire map.
This is a PITA as well. Besides counting hooks, managing cooldowns/tokens, remembering where windows are and which pallets are still up, which survivor is running what perks, the repair progress of which gens, and so on, now you have to try to count and remember kicks/perk procs per gen. This is a headache. Killer UI needs some improvements.
Even if it activated with two gens left it would be more reasonable. With all the gens up at the start and so many ways to cause both deliberate and incidental damage to them it can narrow defense options.
Some version of this could also have been a viable option.
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Yeah, of course I understand that, but even at its worst, I'd still expect at least 4 hooks on 8 downs, and that's if you've been rather unlucky.
Unless you want to argue you regularly experience less than a 50٪ down/hook conversion rate, it still sounds like we're focusing on exceptions rather than the rule.
I'm happy to hear the argument, maybe you do experience this at high levels of play, but thus far I've had rather weak argumentation saying Surge hits the limit of regression events quickly, and this means the anti 3 gen syatem is unfair on killer. This however seems to ignore you've gotten 8 procs of Surge avross multiple gens, and I would argue, managing to get 8 hits of it, even if you've only gotten 2 hooks, you've still regressed gens at least 48% off the regression events alone...
That is a lot of time you've bought, especially on a 3 gen... and if you've failed to convert that much time, I have to question why?
I would not expect to get 8 procs of Surge on a gen unless I was specifically camping a 3-gen all game... please explain how you hit this limit in normal play, cause it sounds like you're getting a lot of value from it.
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no. bhvr specifically said they picked a higher number than necessary so we wouldn't reach it in normal matches.
the actual question is, how/why did we reach it?
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I doubt that unless you stacked 4 slowdowns.
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It's possible they didn't remove generators finished so early in a game they couldn't be regressed or generators never regressed because survivors never touched them. That would skew the data.
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iv hit the limit multiple games in a row yesterday at around 3-4 gens because 1 or two survivors kept going back to one specific gen lol I genuinely hate this system. funny thing is all gen regression perks i had was pop. that limit was reached off of regular kicks and pop kicks then i had to eventually let the survivors complete it because I couldn't do anything anymore lol
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The issue isn't reaching 8 regression events before endgame, that will be pretty rare unless you stack 4 slowdown including Surge a Eruption (keeping in mind that Surge & Eruption together alone can chew through 3 events in one go).
The issue is that, unless the Killer absolutely destroys the Survivors (underhanded means or not), then even just kicking gens normally can lead to a tough endgame even though the Killer didn't intend to 3-gen.
If at least 3 Survivors make it to last gen (which is common if not using certain strategies and/or playing most Killers) then if even one gen is like halfway through it's regression events then it puts the Killer on the defensive since they need to prioritize defending THIS gen. Even if the Survivors 3-gen themselves this happens often. This is especially common with important gens like center gens that Survivors tend to come back to often.
The other major issue is that the system puts a hard-limit on non-regression perks (Nowhere to Hide, Surveillance, Machine Learning, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment etc.) which can screw the Killer over late-game of they kick gens too often for perk value. Why kick gens for the chance to see Survivors's auras if it takes away 1/8th of my kicks?
S-tier Killers don't care about the system because they never regressed gens much in the first place outside of Pop and PainRes. The system affects weaker Killers more AND limits perk variety and viability.
It's not a matter of hitting 8 events, it's a matter of being limited to not hit that cap too soon.
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That's a pretty good argument, and some actual meat to discuss.
I did personally advocate for instead of blocking the gen, instead make it so that regression events drop the 5% progression loss (and all loss sources) to 0.1% progress loss, and regression rate drops from 0.25c/s to 0.01c/s, and that would mean killer could carry on using and proccing those perks.
I still think it's overthinking it though. Surge is not compatible with perks like Eruption, NTH or Trail, especially now survivors can't gen tap anymore, as they can't proc together, they step on each others toes. You can't kick the generator to activate them after it's been hit by Surge. You'd be better off taking Pop to get more value out of each kick... and between Eruption and Pop, you've got very hefty regression that makes Trail not very effective here. Ruin would be a better combo with Surge, maybe in combo with Surveilance (or ofc a hex defence perk).
Combining Eruption with perks like Trail of Torment and Nowhere to Hide is still efficient, because you get more regression on your initial kick, making it last longer to pop Eruption, so you got the initial 5%, plus another 10%. NTH helps you ensure you get in chase with anyone close, or more certainty your Trail is safe for the time being. When you down, you got more value from Eruption than kicking the gen twice, and realistically how many times do you get Eruption on a gen per game? My personal best when not ditching chases and hard camping a 3 gen is 3 times... that's 45% on Eruption alone. You're put Pop on that and you've got some really efficient gen slowdown.
The anti 3-gen system does limit the more unga bunga gen regression perk stacking, but it's certainly something you can still plan and optimise around, especially when you put DMS, Deadlock and GE in the mix.
I'd agree with allowing the killer to still kick gens to activate perks that rely on it, even if all regression was disabled, though this does still allow Overcharge to be used for 3-genning, so I understand why it isn't... but anti-3-gen still doesn't look like the boogie man people are suggesting.
Edit: The thing is if these perks are too weak as a result of the 3-gen change (which I'm not convinced they are), they can be looked at as targets to be buffed in other ways. E.g.
- NTH gets a longer range or up time.
- Trail can have a maximum distance of say 36m that's its aura is revealed to survivors.
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
I never said the system shouldn‘t exist, in fact it's decent at preventing endless games, but it honestly shouldn‘t be active from the start. I think it should have less events (like 6) but only be active during the last gen to truly be an Anti-3-gen system.
Also let's be honest here, 5% is almost nothing, without any perks/items/great skillchecks that regression is repaired back in less than 4 seconds. Survivors lose more progress (and as such, time) when failing skill checks and we all know how little time it actually saves if the Survivors have any kind of gen-speed perks/items. Before the system I tested this while farming with Knight: I was constantly "kicking" a gen with a guard and 2 Survivors were repairing it during the cooldown, just in those few seconds they were out-repairing the damage to the gen (and Guards already did 5% damage).
Again, reaching the cap isn't the issue, it's being at a disadvantage during the last gen even if the Survivors 3-genned themselves and you regressed one gen too much as well as limiting certain perks. A 3-gen should be a difficult situation for the Survivors. Which is why activating the system at the end would only affect those situations.
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I see your point, but IIRC the devs specifically said a big reason for this system being in place is to counter people holding three gens from the start of the match, and if that’s truly the case then it has to be active from the get-go. Could it be better? Absolutely. But it’s doing it’s job on that front.
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I think eruption is the more problematic one, you can activate it 4 times max on one gen.
It should be 10 regression events.
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It's not odd. A down simply doesn't mean a hook. Survivors have a multitude of second chance options to avoid hooks even after being downed. If anything is an odd statement, it's yours XD
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M1 killers specifically cannot afford to patrol generators at the far reaches of the large maps. This means they sre forced by game design to patrol the central generators (usually 4 gens). This means Surge usually consistently hits the center gens.
Another way is the incredibly common survivor tactic to entirely focus on center gens and leave the far away gens untouched to set up for an easy endgame. This means the only gens to even defend are the center gens which means they will get regressed a lot more with kicks or perks. This essentially is out of the hands of the killer unless they choose to never even try to regress the gens being super focused on.
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While it does help against that, it also hurts Killers that aren't 3-genning. If the system activated at the end it would only affect those situations.
Just look at the cursed Team ETERNAL vs Cm9i match: Like all 3-genning Killers (from the start) he never really left his zone, which means the Survivors did every other gens basically unbothered and were in almost pristine condition when the 3-gen battle started.
A Killer that chases and hooks during the game will likely have to deal with a Survivor team in rough shape compared to a 3-genner that wanted to play chess from the start. If the system only starts at the end it punishes those 3-genners much more since the Survivors are in good shape and map ressources are still plentiful.
The current system punishes non-3-genning Killers as much (if not more since their builds won't be made for it) than 3-gen players and it shouldn't be.
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The problem is the opposite though. As a killer you don't WANT to hit that scenario, because if you do you lose. Yeah you can drag the game out, but by design you lose every time. So if they only made it count during the 3 gen, and then lowered the count to say, 4 regression events, i think it would work out much better.
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My best guess is that it's usually one of two things: Jolt + unlucky gen spawn on two story maps - or pretty much dry kicking gens.
The devs kinda explicitly stated that killers should have to put some more thought into which gens they regress. And the sheer amount of killers I see kicking gens with nearly no progress is... astonishig. Which is why I put it here to begin with. ("But I have NTH I have to kick gens" - no, you don't have to kick gens. Having NTH doesn't mean you'll get it infinitely by kicking every single gen every chance you get.)
As for the Jolt: That one is on Bhvr. - Now, if you manage to get 8 events because of Jolt you should still very much have already won that match... but I can see where killers are coming from. - Maybe add a condition to jolt: It affects only gens that have 10% progress or more.
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jolt being the thing they should have tested. just feels obvious to test it in the game or the school. and account for it. it was a great perk on weaker killers because it saved time on kicking gens, and saving time is always great. but now it might not be worth it because using it means you gotta win fast enough for it not to matter.
and I don't see that logic. gen is progressing, I regress it if I have the downtime. same for a survivor, I see gen, I progress gen if it's safe/necessary. And the only concern is "should I focus on defending another gen?" or "should I focus on progressing another gen?", never just "ignore this gen".
unless you aren't already winning the match. because that also happens.
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