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Remove the Hatch
Hi I’ve been playing DBD since the clown release. I would like to state that the introduction to the endgame counter was a wonderful step in the right direction bc survivors were holding the game hostage on the killers side after completing their objective, and just staying to farm the killer they dusted. EGC has been wonderful introduction for a healthier game, however with the new endgame and kill rates for solo mostly resulting in a weird standoff between two survivors and the killer with likely hood of both dying anyways or mercy hatch or gate. Just take the hatch and gate away if there’s 2-3 gens left and only 2 survivors. The outcome is basically cemented and everyone involved doesn’t like it, so unless it’s like 2 left with a single gen to go just sacrifice the survivors to the entity like in endgame counter or something , I wish to die without adding more time to my most likely inevitable death.
Maybe I’m alone in this but we didn’t complete the objective and the hatch just feels like a cheap get out of jail free card at the expense of two others involved.
Almost the only time 2 people are still making progress towards getting out is when I’m in duo and we work on the same gen and have an understood agreement whichever one the killer picks to chase is who bears the burden. When solo though it’s mostly just me on a gen, then getting found, and then in farming out the remainder lives or slugged till they find the other, and if they're feeling nice they’ll give someone hatch.
Anyways it just doesn’t feel good all around I’m sure, and killers are right most of the time at least one of the survivors are hiding it out. So can we just have a mercy out for 2 plus gens with 2 survivors remaining, and call it killers favor idc. They beat us, they win. Let’s not make it awkward.
Maybe if you try this survivors will try harder to work together to get all the gens done bc it’s their only way out, and it will stop all the selfish solo survivor moves just waiting for hatch and encourage teamwork instead for solo.
Could be a dumb idea. I know it throws killers a bone(sue me), but it also throws solo q’s a bone too in a reverse psychology kind of way bc there’s no freebie, they have to work together for a common goal, to get that gate after gen completion. If there’s one survivor left with like 1 gen to do or something just put the timer on that instead to get the gen done and get out so the game can’t be held hostage. Balance from there if you must.
Comments
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no
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Yes
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No
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And how you will finish game when only one survivor left? At this point, sitting on gen as last survivor will be just suicide. So if you have fair solution, please tell me
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I dont agree, hatch is needed in the state of the game. However, i think the hatch should be closed after appearing, and a) should be opened with a key or b) opened without a key, with time depending how much time you spend on gens/chases/rescuing and healing others.
Otherwise, just show the end screen the second the killer tunneled out the first guy in an all-solo-match with one or two gens done, because as you said, the outcome is cemented. Just let the entity sacrifice the survivors, without satisfying some killers need for self-importance.
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I’m saying if there’s one gen and 2 survivors that’s fine, doable even. More than 2 gens though and only 2 survivors left(yourself being one of them) the odds are so stacked against you already.
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So you have not solution and you just want to get your free kill. Then my answer will be same as other replies: No.
Thank you so much.
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Hatch is rewarded to the last remaining survivor. Taking that away is redundant. Now if it was old Hatch with the key, that would be a different story.
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I play in very large majority survivor. As duo or solo, but okay don’t read.
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I read enough and your points did not make any sense to me.
Hatch need to stay for the way to finish game fairly for both sides. And it's fix for hostage situations. So If you have different solution for finishing game, shoot it. If you don't, then hatch will stay as it is.
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I mean I’ve finished 2 gens all alone just me left. It was different times though, before egc. I see the before and after. I think removing hatch will force survivors to play smarter and stop being overly hidey and altruistic and think about their plays more. Hatch doesn’t even reward good game play. You can be the worst most non contributing person on the team and get it. It’s a freebie and encourages selfish plays. Get rid of it is how I feel.
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I am sure you did. I have no doubts. Good job.
Please answer me if you only have alternative solution to hatch. If you don't , there is no reason to talk anymore for me.
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I respect your feelings on the subject.
But personally I think the hatch should stay. For me it’s really fun searching for hatch as a last ditch effort to escape.
When I play as the Killer I never mind when a Survivor escapes through the hatch. It adds a really fun last scene of action to the match imo.
Whether I play as Survivor or Killer, and whether the Survivor escapes through hatch or gets killed it’s still all fun to me.
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Hello, fellow 2018 player.
I think the hatch is fine as it is, no reason to remove it.
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I posted this in another topic, but I have a general idea:
The hatch becomes the "judge" of the survivor. If they contributed enough (emblem progress, maybe a pip requirement) then the hatch is an escape like normal, and it counts the same as an exit gate escape. If they didn't contribute enough, the entity impales them when they try to jump into it and it counts as a sacrifice. No way to know beforehand which outcome you'll get, and key bypasses the check.
The hatch isn't exactly fair as it is, its a pity escape. It is indeed needed to prevent hostage situations (like EGC) but it can still deny the killer of a 4th kill they earned when one person just hides the whole time (essentially sandbagging their teammates in the process.) I feel like a change like this would make it more fair for survivors/killers who earned their escape/kill.
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All this does is reward the killer a 4k for getting 2k. Way too much plays in favor of the killer in this game. The current hatch system is not very good either in my opinion. Its complete RNG that takes nothing into consideration. You could be the most altruistic, gen repairing, totem cleansing, killer looping survivor on the team but if you end up being the last survivor the hatch could still spawn right at the feet of the killer and then you die. There definitely needs to be an alternative way to escape for survivors and the current hatch system isn't it.
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If they rework survivor emblems, i can support that. And they should anyway. Survivor emblems are terrible bad. If you camped and tunnelled out by killer, you will barely get BPs. Or if you looped killer for good and they did not leave you, you will not get BP from other objectives.
They should rework this too and then i am fine with your solution. Rats should not be rewarded with hatch , i am all for it.
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I respect your opinion, though we disagree.
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This. You need to be able to give a good answer to this @HeroLives if you want a meaningful discussion about removing Hatch.
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BPs are technically different than emblems, though the categories are essentially the same. For example if you never get downed, you get an iri unbroken emblem, never hooked is gold, etc. The idea I floated leaves room for the thresholds to be tinkered with behind the scenes, so if you had two silvers, a gold and an iri, its obviously a passing grade.
But if you got tunnelled and only really got an iri in Evader but bronze in everything else, those types of uneven scenarios could be fine tuned whether they count as a pass (or even having the different categories have different weights toward your overall pass/fail check) It would be easier to get hatch without ever being downed (hiding the whole game) than it would be getting the hatch after being tunneled and escaping entirely after all.
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I like this idea. Might help prevent some of the hiding for hatch when 2 or 3 people are left and 1 or 2 are still trying to do gens. I wouldn't even be against the progress towards a good judgment regressing over time if the survivor decides to stop helping mid way.
As it's stands to me, hatch is often the only feeling of hope left in a match. I don't want to see it taken away but I do think it should be earned.
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I mean I feel like removing is hatch is fair, the survivors lost. If you finish the last gen bc 1 gen is left and you and the other person got that far but they died, just finish the gen or run for your life and killer earns their kill. It’s not an absurd thought for a survivor to finish their gen to get out. gate spawns and you power it as normal. I genuinely feel we shouldn’t get hatch with multiple gens left. It’s a cheap very pity win. We also lost at that point if there’s only two people left with multiple gens mostly turns into a drawn out hide for hatch in solo bc teamwork comes second in solo save your own skin.
Solo survivor rates are already garbage bc people aren’t working together bc at any point everyone can get killed off and there’s still always hatch for last person standing. Hatch encourages selfish gameplay, that’s just my opinion. That’s fine if you disagree, or have differing opinions.
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Finally something we agree on. I 💯 agree with Kate on this post.
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If that’s how you feel I get it, I just feel differently. Also times have changed since 2018. I used to post on here all the time, but just recently came back to the forums, so nice to see another long time player around on here still.
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It will do the complete opposite if I was the last survivor and there was no hatch I would just hide and waste the killers time for as long as possible to make them miserable.
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Put on a timer to finish the gen and get out similar to egc in the event of.
also that’s just a rude thing to do, there’s nothing to be gained from that other than being in trial longer doing nothing. Sounds boring on both ends.
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So you just want a free kill got it.
So what I play how I want.
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I don’t see how you don’t see as survivor not completing all gens and getting hatch as a free escape…it’s not really a free kill the killer wiped the floor with the team. The team lost…if hatch spawned we lost if all 5 gens aren’t done. Its a free escape…that a singular survivor has the possibility of getting…for their side losing.
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hatch is good because it solves the "last survivor just hides" issue.
if you want it out, you need a proper replacement.
what you offered isn't it.
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I understand where you are coming from. But without the hope of a hatch wouldn’t Survivors give up and stop playing? In the very least doesn’t it motivate Survivors to keep playing until the end?
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egc on gens also fixes hide in the 2 left vs 1 killer multiple gens. Respectfully, If you don’t like it, maybe come up with an idea too?
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I could care less if I get hatch or not, bc I realize it for what it is; a reason for the team to give up and stop trying for that small selfish hope bc they fumbled the ball. It encourages bad plays bc could still get hatch in solo. My hopes are thwarted the moment they start snowballing each other, purposefully sandbagging, ripping me off the hook with the killer on them when others could save that aren’t in chase. Honestly take the hope away for hatch.
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why would I need to come up with an idea?
I'm just giving my opinion on yours.
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You would not like the fall-out of Hatch removal, I can tell you that.
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That seems pretty fair I guess. The whole hide gen thing makes everyone miserable as is though so something has to change. Thats also a good idea.
Just feels like it would still encourage selfish behavior for a team though bc could just get key to get hatch. I like where your head is at though.
I don’t really play a lot of killer, just for dailys or special stuff on the compendiums or challenges for events. Just mostly feels bad as survivor, and I’ve seen the frustration from killer posts about the hiding in those situations. As survivor I dislike it as well. So common interest.
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What do you predict?
I assume chaos on our side for sure, but like what would you suggest to encourage teamwork outside of nerfing things the selfish playstyle abuses? Bc I saw them coming for distortion, but I want the playstyle handled for healthier survivor choices being made, and removing hatch is the only thing I can think of so they’re forced to think critically how it’s going to effect the team and their chance of survival as well.
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Fair enough.
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Is nerfing the lone wolf playstyle the new perk to complain about? Did survivors finally run out of good perks?
Lone wolf would be seen a lot less often if they didn't have to worry about being tunneled out 90% of the time, imo.
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people didn't use to openly admit they want their pity wins this bad before when talking about hatch, probably some sole survivor left behind distortion calm spirit gamers that farm their consolation prizes wanting to keep their generally only means of escaping. fair enough, but i personally think hatch is awful game design that promotes/warrants horrendous gameplay choices from both sides so it should be removed.
to respectable people that think hatch should exist because it allegedly solves taking hostage situations, it couldn't be easier to deal with it without hatch existing. i'm going to repeat what i said in an older post that got bumped:
- remove hatch
- after 15 minutes pass, killer can open a gate and start egc. if they don't want to, they will have to find the last survivor(s).
- the last survivor alive gains a massive repair speed boost based on how many gens are left when their last teammate died. this isn't because they are expected to actually repair them all and leave but because they shouldn't be able to kept for too long in the match by cringe killers.
- after 15 minutes pass, survivor(s) can suicide on the ground if they are kept slugged for 1 mins (after their last time going down), or if they are picked and dropped by the killer, OR on killer's shoulder if it's their second time getting picked up without being hooked. this way they can suicide or finish gens and leave if the killer intends to take them hostage.
- ???? profit. solving issues hatch is thought to solve is this easy. if survivors only stay in the match because they can get hatch, they might as well not play since they don't add anything to gameplay from that point on for anybody remaining in the lobby.
this way hide for hatch and slug for 4k bots can fight each other for as long as they wish without bothering anybody else. if the killer doesn't care, they can just end it by opening a gate and survivors can't be held hostage either. should be very simple.
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Yeah, hatch is too RNG based. But just as often as I've had the hatch spawn in my face as a killer, the same has happened to me as a surv. I've had the hatch spawn right in my path just as the killer was going to down me on more than one occasion. And yeah, it feels bad to get totally jobbed by RNG like that. It feels every bit as bad to play an amazing, fair game of killer, get three kills, and then have the hatch spawn right under the last surv.
But the reality is that the game is essentially always decided by RNG to some degree via map generation. If you're playing DBD in either role, you're either being helped or hindered by luck. It's baked into the DNA of the game. But all that passive RNG doesn't seem like as much of a direct middle finger as when the hatch spawns under the killer, or vise versa.
That hatch is a coin flip, and that's about as statistically fair as it gets. If we're looking for a "skill based" alternative, I don't think one is forthcoming. What could one be? Last surv can hack the gate via minigame? Solve some sort of puzzle? Any solution would difficult when there is only one surv for the killer to focus on, and if it were a means that was quickly accessible, it wouldn't be fair to the killer.
I'd actually be curious to see what the stats are when hatch spawns in terms of the killer closing it vs. the surv getting through it. I'd expect near 50/50.
If someone has a viable alternative, I'd be happy to hear it. But there is a lot of complaining about hatch, but essentially nothing in the way of solutions (if it can even be considered a problem).
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I mean yeah probably doesn’t help, but as a survivor I’m prepared to give up hatch to make other survivors think more critically about their actions and the consequences to them outside of tunneling when they turn 4v1 into 3v2 and so on. They’re supposed to be on my team. I feel like as a survivor if I have to give up something to make the game healthier for everyone trying to do the objectives being get saves safely , do gens, and try to hold off the killer as long as possible from getting you. Then it’s a small sacrifice for the greater good of solo(bc swf already want to keep each other alive as long as possible). Utilitarianism if you will.
They could put hatch in a new mode with no gens king of the hill style and last survivor standing alive gets it or slinks through it. Ya know since there’s no hope anyways and people start throwing bc killer already won with all those gens up and not enough people left to do the objective or willing to continue contributing in solo to get out plus everything else for a comeback.
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Don’t really care for the idea of being stuck in match as last survivor for 15 minutes but I’m with you with the hatch has to go bc the toxic gameplay it promotes, bc I’m certainly not enjoying just offering myself or the hide it out option at 2 plus gens. None the less solo needs encouragement to work together, and not the every person for themself hatch can create.
It can be balanced around. Kill rates will go up at first, but like that should be expected. Eventually it will even out to how survivors adjust to having to work together in solo to see what can make it better when they have no choice but to. So before there’s adjustments on the killer side(and the game is already in favor of), I think it wise to force them to do so. Bc the amount of throws going on when the landslide starts certainly makes solo worse at our own faults bc solo shenanigans.
I understand the initial response of “not me hatch solo already sucks” but there’s a lot of games where if solo lobbies made better choices there’s really no telling how well it could have went. I’ve been in plenty of great solo matches where everyone does their part and it goes no where near as poorly. Then there’s total wipe out with several gens still up(with a good bit being bad plays). That’s just honesty. As a survivor main I’m looking at other survivors at what we can collectively do to put us in a better spot in solo. Even if it sucks at first.
saw someone suggest a “hook” spawn with an aura a killer can’t see once they “hook” the survivor(similar to pyramid heads cage) to deter tunneling. That sounds pretty good to me. Might balance out the whole no hatch thing. Killers might get around it anyways. Could just create a zone the killer can’t come into once they’ve hooked someone where they can reset on a timer so they can’t just hang out in there after they’ve been “unhooked” I’m just spitballing ideas.
Implement them at the same time.
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Yeah probably 50/50 or 40/60 but would be cool to see the stats on that none the less.
idk if I’d call it a huge problem bc it’s not the biggest pain, but it’s problematic and causes a lot of grief all around on both sides that could just not be bc teammates throwing and the unfun hide style wait for hatch showdown that ensues , and the slugging for it survivors hate while they’re/I’m lying around waiting for the killer to find the other person or hope the teammate picks them up( results vary).
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Well if that is the case then camping bar should still fill at end game since survivors destroyed the killer. also ds should work and otf.
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The hatch is perfectly fine it’s not really a cheap mechanic anymore
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I like how you see free kill. But jumping in a randomly spawned hatch with 0, 1 or 2 gens done is not a free escape I guess? Only the bad guys want stuff "for free"
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I agree, the hatch is an outdated silly mechanic which brings more problems than it solves. I made a long detailed post about it not so long ago
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So can we just have a mercy out for 2 plus gens with 2 survivors remaining, and call it killers favor idc. They beat us, they win.I feel that a lot of people misunderstood the OP, which is fair because it was a long post and when people talk about removing the hatch they usually mean something different. If I understand the OP's argument, its that if a killer can get X kills before Y gen completion, the game just ends in a killer 4k.
Conceptually I like the idea, realistically I don't think it would work.
Why I'd like it:
- Speed up pointless games for both sides.
- Survivors might work together more to prevent someone from getting eliminated early in the match.
Why I realistically don't think it would work
- Lots of the game is built around the concept that the survivors are not a full team. Survivors have times were they have to decide to play for themselves or the groups. I don't think BHVR will ever move away from that.
- It might result in the opposite outcome where if the survivors get a bad start they just rush to sacrifice to get the game over (though I think this is the game as is).
- It might feel good for veterans, but would be annoying for new players. The game just feeling like it arbitrarily ended would be a confusing experience.
My opinion on hatch:
Hatch itself is fine, even the random nature of it. The only problem is the standoff where multiple survivors hide to draw the game out. Much like how we've addressed 3 genning because long drawn out games aren't fun, this should be addressed as well.
My suggestion:
When 2 survivors remain and more than one gens needs to be completed, both get a 60 second timer. Every second not on gens or in chase the timer decreases, every second on gens the timer goes up by 3. Once a survivors timer runs out their aura is permanently shown to the killer. If the survivors get it to one gen remaining, normal gameplay resumes.
However, at the same time that change is made, slugging for the 4k should also be addressed. If two survivors are left and there are still gens to complete, any survivor who is downed have their bleed out timer increased by 5 times the current rate.
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Since the devs like to balance around kill rates, all this would do is increase them to the point where they'd start nerfing killers to balance it all out. Too much trouble for such an unnecessary change.
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Less perks and more basekit powers is a start. The more perks that are added the more the RNG factor kicks in.
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