I'm done trying to defend gens
Comments
-
Lol, well of course Hawkins has very few safe pallets at all. But again, except for Hawkins and Dead Dawg, I can't think of any map with a lot of unsafe pallets.
0 -
Unless you make a great play to able to stun killer with that pallet and Lithe away from the window....from a map that Lithe has almost no use.
0 -
I agree. It's completely unfair to the Killer.
It's basically uncounterable and unbalanced the entire map.
0 -
We found a lot of maps to have more unsafe pallets than safe pallets.
Some maps are different, like Garden or The Game. A lot of the Colwind, Mac or some Autohaven maps have more unsafe than safe.
0 -
Here's the vod for anyone interested.
Brought a Survivor main with me, so we'd have that perspective as well.
2 -
25% of a duo gen is 24.5 seconds.
you can only negate time that actually passed. it will always be 24.5.
in an abstract way, yes. you wasted 24.5 seconds of each of the 2 survivors. but it's still 24.5 seconds total.
2 -
By that logic, CoH wasn't an issue but we all know it was.
Total time investment is more important.
2 -
that is different because that is time invested, not time negated.
you can always optimize the time invested.
but you can not negate more time than the time that passed
0 -
If you interrupt two people healing with sloppy, how much time did they waste
1 -
depends on when you interrupt them.
anywhere from almost nothing to almost the time of 1 full heal.
2 -
Assuming a full heal, that's two people wasting that amount of time.
Same with duo'ing on a gen.
2 -
doesn't mean you wasted the time of 2 heals...
0 -
If they decide to fully heal again, that's actually exactly what it means. That's at minimum looking at around 40-45 seconds of wasted time for both survivors, adding up to 80-90 seconds in total, equivalent to a full gen's worth of time (and that's being generous as hell, assuming they immediately go back to healing instead of dispersing for 10-20 seconds). If the survivor was to heal himself, loses progress due to the killer interrupting, then heal again, that's over 40 seconds for that individual survivor. Assuming the other survivor that would have been healing them doesn't have to, that's over half a gen of progress they could get done in that time.
Time in this game is not universal, all survivors can use it differently and thus, must be thought about as so. It is not an "abstract" way of thinking about it, it is mathematically and logically backed. It is a waste of time to double up on gens or healing unless there's one gen left or the person cannot heal themselves. This is an indisputable fact.
1 -
NOT AT THE TIME OF INTERRUPTION!
do I really need to spell it out?
0 -
Sorry, but I guess so. I don’t really see your point.
1 -
I wonder if this is why I get stomped by survivors as often as I do...
I do not run gen blocking/regressing/slowdown perks. I use chase and info perks with maybe an endgame perk or anti-bully perk like Lightborn or Mad Grit. I struggle to get kills and always ask why did the SBMMR think this was a fair match-up.
BUT, what if the game/SBMMR is "balanced" around the killer having many slowdown perks? Let's say that myself and other killers have the same rating. The other killers had a very fair match, but they used many slowdown perks. SBMMR matches those same survivors against me and assumes it to be a fair match, but I don't use the same perks so I have a harder time.
Well, no... because my rating should drop when I lose anyway. 🤔
Whatever. I stand by the game giving players a rating floor based on play time. I'm no god looper or meta killer, but because I've been playing since launch that's pretty much all I face. 🤷♂️
1 -
Are we talking legit gen rushing? Or just chases not ending fast enough. I can't tell you how many matches I have played as survivor to get salted on by a killer who over committed to one survivor. A 6 minute chase and 4-5 gens later, it's not gen rushing.
0 -
MMR works by reducing your score when you lose, and adding to it when you win. If your MMR is at the same level as killers using slowdown perks, you should be winning about as often (in theory). Your theory is correct if you suddenly stop using slowdown perks though, as your MMR was adjusted to your mechanical skill and your perk and killer choice. Suddenly picking worse perks will mean your MMR is no longer as predictive of your success, and it'll adjust downward as you lose.
0 -
shame...
1 -
Hold on we have to clear something up. What is a safe vs unsafe pallet to you? Because I think you and I have different definitions of those.
0 -
Pallets that become less safe once the pallet is down are unsafe. Jungle Gyms, Shack and long loops with good LoS are safe even with the pallet down.
Rock loops, trash loops and etc aren't safe once the pallet drops.
Likewise, any loop where you need specific scenarios in order for it to be safe. For example, " The Killer has to be an M1."
General mindgameablity goes into it as well.
1 -
Care to expand? I’m genuinely curious as to your reasoning, and I’m honestly not following your logic at all.
0 -
I don't see why that really matters here. As someone who bounces around with the bp bonus I see complaints from both sides. I've had games as a survivor where we smoke the killer, and matches where the killer smokes us. I've also been on the other side of it. I see that most of your replies tend to be complaining and discounting suggestions that people are giving you. If you're not happy with killer at the moment, switch sides and see what happens.
0 -
no matter what, you can't negate more time than the time that passed.
it does not matter how many people you interrupt. if you interrupt an action that takes 10 seconds, you negated up to 10 seconds. you didn't negate 30 seconds because there was 3 people there.
you interrupt a heal, you negate however much time was invested in that heal. and that is it. (obviously same applies if a perk removes 30% of a gen or something)
which is different from optimizing the time you spend, because two+ people can take different actions at the same time. and proper action economy always wins.
and anything like "but it means they have to heal later and that means I negated double the time", it doesn't and no they don't. If we bothered with this we would be just creating a scenario in our head which will fit anything either of us want. it's meaningless.
like "you stop the heal, oh look the last gen got fixed and they had adrenaline" or "they just loop you until the gate is opened and leave". we can go back and forth, it's endless, it's useless.
0 -
This did not help. Feels like rambling.
Your logic doesn't really make any sense.
2 -
have you tried applying basic physics?
0 -
Have you tried basic logic?
If you interrupt TWO PEOPLE, performing ONE action, you are wasting multiple people's time. This results in a net loss of double the time that would've been lost if a single person was performing said action.
I genuinely do not see what's so hard to grasp.
2 -
So say surge procs and hits 2 gens being worked on with the same progress. Is it X time where X is what surge reduced or Y time which is 2X because 2 different gens?
1 -
Your logic doesn't really make any sense.
0 -
really pulling the entire alphabet for no reason...
what I said applied to 1 thing. if something happens to 2 things at the same time, what do you think applies? could it be, what I said, twice?
0 -
*Shrug* who knows, people here often have more insanity than we do, so figure we should ask.
0 -
You're either getting way too caught up in semantics, or you're not understanding all of our points.
Your logic is not tracking and is not the reality of how this actually plays out. If you interrupt 2 people healing 10 seconds into the heal, you did not simply waste a flat 10 seconds of time, you wasted 10 seconds for each of the survivors, 10 seconds that could have been used on different actions, such as individually doing two generators for 10 seconds each.
You're getting stuck on some sort of wording because it seems like you understand this, but are getting lost in translation somewhere.
0 -
What people are saying is that because two survivors were occupied, it's 20 seconds worth of potential generator time that you negated.
I do think some people adhere to that concept a little too religiously and can miss some important context about when real time matters more than potential generator time, but it isn't a completely unsound way of looking at the topic.
0 -
fair enough
sorry. reality does not comply with what you're saying. try again.
nope. they weren't on gens. I would have negated healing time.
also, literal second thing I said 👇️
you all are making this so unnecessarily hard for some reason...
0 -
They mean that those two survivors were off generators to heal- the idea being, they spend potential generator time to gain the benefit of that survivor being healthy.
You interrupted the heal, meaning the generator time wasn't spent, it was wasted. Since they were spending both survivor's potential generator time to begin with, that means 20 total seconds of potential generator time was invested without payoff. Ergo, 20 seconds wasted.
I don't fully agree with this perspective but it also isn't completely incoherent.
2 -
I don't know what else to say at this point, that's just exactly how it works, time is not a flat concept, you cannot treat it as such. I guess we just agree to disagree.
0 -
To add on to this too, it doesn't even have to be generator time, but it's simply time in general. Time that could spent literally doing anything. Running for hook saves, running the killer, doing totems, etc. Generators are just used as an example of efficiency with said time.
0 -
At this point, it feels like you realized you were wrong like two pages ago and are just sticking your head in the sand now.
Barring a language barrier, I don't know how you don't get it after having three separate people explain it to you.
2 -
Coldwind and Macmillan maps? Really? Can't think of many pallets that are unsafe on those maps personally.
0 -
Rock loops.
Middle of cornfield haybale pallets
0 -
I personally don't try to hard and normally get about 30k bps before multiplier by focusing on hiking everyone twice and then just playing with them while they do gens or go afk. I don't care about meta perks, meta killers, or really anything. I just put on perks that seem amusing, like Trail of Torment, Hysteria, Dark Devotion, and stuff like that.
I normally don't really try hard unless a tome challenge makes me have to
0 -
Oh yeah I know which loops you are talking about, definitely wouldn't call them unsafe though. They are big enough in my experience. Unless you classify unsafe as mindgameable, which the majority of loops should be if you ask me.
0 -
I would say easily mindgameable is unsafe. Like, you can mindgame Shack, but that doesn't make shack unsafe.
Also, neither the rock loops nor the middle of the cornfield haybale loops are long enough to be safe. I could swing from one side to another.
0
