It's been a wild ride

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Myself and about a dozen gamer friends in my network are quitting Dead By Daylight after the slew of awful changes made by BHVR to the game.

The last change to The Blight's Adrenaline Vial was the nail in the coffin for me.

I can see that BHVR has it all wrong when it comes to their approach to the game and why hoards of people are now leaving the community and finding other things to do with their downtime.

Let me give you some context before I go into more detail on why I will no longer spend any time in the DBD community.

This provides not just a gamer's perspective but also one of an entrepreneur.

I would say I fall outside of the typical DBD demographic. I work as a CEO to my own business with an 8-person team -- a digital marketing agency based in the UK. Subsequently, the free time I have is limited. Yet I still chose to spend much of this free time playing Dead By Daylight.

Why?

Because the game was so much fun. Pure and simple. A unique concept that has been fine-tuned over many years with interesting killers, survivors, cool perks, and exclusive licenses.

But if you go through this post you'll learn how BHVR has completely messed up the formula for this game, largely through their obsession with "balance" changes. But more importantly, their ethos behind the changes they make in the first place.

I'm a console player and have been since I first got a Playstation 1 over 20 years ago before moving to Xbox when the 360 came out. I've been playing Dead By Daylight on and off for a few years but started playing it more seriously in the last 9/10 months. In the last 6 months, I've had so much fun playing as the Blight, learning his power, and improving my skills.

The Blight is such a rewarding killer, with a super high skill ceiling, incredible design. And just a terrifying prospect with his crazy rush power.

Most importantly, he is fun as hell. Particularly once you get good at him (like anything).

Over the last months, I have watched as BHVR has butchered various killers and perks all in the name of "balance".

Let's start with the Blight.

Everyone knows he's one of the strongest killers in the game. And people (survivor mains) will never stop moaning about how he is too powerful. Let's be honest, survivors don't want to go up against strong killers with a high skill ceiling. Because it feels unfair when you go up against someone that's just that -- highly skilled.

Does that make the killer unbalanced or unfair? Of course not.

I also play FiFa and I'm in Division 1. I use Barcelona, not one of the strongest teams by a long shot. I play some of the best players in the world and I often go 30 online matches without losing a single game. Does it feel unfair to my opponents? Yes of course it does. Many of them think I'm cheating -- or they convince themselves that the game is "scripted" and I won because "the game allowed me".

if you play Fifa all day long and you get your ass kicked by someone who doesn't your brain is going to rationalize some type of excuse.

Why do I win? Because I learned the playstyle and techniques that beat 99% of people through YouTube. I love learning and improving in all aspects and take this into my gaming too.

Am I going to wake up one day to a different Fifa because the devs didn't like my playstyle or because I'm winning too much?

Never.

But this is exactly what the developers for Dead by Daylight do time and time again.

They look at the numbers and fail to take into account the full context of the data before they make a decision. They also contradict the entire ethos of the game through many of the changes they make.

What do I mean by that?

If you ask the team behind DBD -- it is a game that's supposed to revolve around fun. It's geared more for casual gamers than for hardcore professionals.

This is the reason they have done next to nothing for competitive play.

This is the reason why DBD has no stats.

This is the reason why various QOL changes have been implemented to stop undesirable playstyles like camping (which is totally fair).

But the obsession with changes to killers, add-ons, and perks makes it a game no longer worth the time investment.

Let's focus on BHVR's seemingly unending fetish with balance for a minute. Most real imbalances come from two main places:

  1. BHVR overpower perks for new killers or survivors to get you to buy them before they nerf them 6-12 months later.
  2. A genuine oversight from the developers on how a perk or power would play out in the game.

The idea of balance itself comes from a desire to even out the playstyles in the game. They want to see a more or less even usage of perks, killers, add-ons...etc.

But this will never happen because it goes against the law of nature itself.

Ever heard of the Pareto Principle?

It is the observation that most things in life are not distributed evenly. It can mean all of the following things:

  • 20% of the input creates 80% of the result
  • 20% of the workers produce 80% of the result
  • 20% of the customers create 80% of the revenue
  • 20% of the bugs cause 80% of the crashes
  • 20% of the features cause 80% of the usage
  • And on and on…

If we apply this in a gaming context, specifically relating to DBD:

80% of players will use 20% of perks in the game. There will always be meta perks.

80% of killers will use the same 20% of the add-ons available.

BHVR is constantly fighting against nature with an obsession to balance things out. Anytime something is meta, it finds itself on the radar for a nerf at some point down the line.

This is an unhealthy cycle that disrupts gameplay, pisses people off and ultimately drives people en masse away from the game.

Now let's look at some more specifics relating to recent updates from BHVR. Let's take 7.5.0 and 7.5.1 as an example.

People moaned for a very long time about Blight's add-ons and the Blight in general. If survivors had their way, he'd be 0.9ms with 1 rush and a 60-second cooldown.

But the points around his add-ons were valid.

Some of them were problematic.

Alchemist Ring, Blight tag, Compound 33.

We must remember that these are purple and iridescent add-ons. These should be powerful.

When you have powerful killers paired with powerful add-ons it's always going to cause a stir. But as long as add-ons aren't problematic, they should not be changed.

I don't take issue with making changes for problematic add-ons.

What I do have an issue with is poor reworks that render them useless. Then to take things further and nerf the only add-on that was worth running for a killer (Adrenaline Vial).

Alchemist Ring (after) -- Rushes are 20% longer than standard.

Compound 33 -- Rushes capped at 2. Rushes are 33% longer and have 33% improved turn rate.

Blight tag -- Unlimited rushes but a 20-second cooldown if your rush chain ends, you hit a pallet or you hit someone.

These new add-ons are so unoriginal and don't reflect the strength of the colours they represent. 2 out of 3 are focused on rush length. For a Blight, rush length is pretty much useless when using bump logic to catch a survivor. He always has great mobility to traverse the map with his basekit. This does nothing to add to his power in a meaningful way. Not to mention the 7.5.1 change for Compound 33 which has now rendered the add-on completely useless. 2 rushes is worse than basekit and nobody will use this.

And who needs infinite rushes? You want to hit a survivor, not travel from New York to California in a crazed fit of rage.

The problem in this case is bad add-on design. It's a lazy rework to one of the most fun killers in the game.

Then we have Adrenaline Vial -- an add-on that has gone through more changes than Joan Rivers face. Before 7.5.1 we had the following:

  • Reduces the Recharge time per Power Token by -1 second.
  • Increases the number of available Power Tokens by +2.
  • Increases your Movement speed during a Rush by +10 %.
  • Increases your maximum Look angle during a Rush by +50 °.
  • Reduces your Turn rate during a Rush by -0.5 °/s.

Then it changed to this:

  • Increases the number of available Power Tokens by +2.
  • Increases your Movement speed during a Rush by +5 %.
  • Increases your maximum Look angle during a Rush by +20 °.

And now in 7.5.1 BHVR had re-added the downside of -55% turn rate without the recharge time bonus.

In 7.5.0 this add-on was perfect. The Blight felt incredible with his 20-degree look angle increase along with the other benefits of the add-on.

At the sametime, this add-on doesn't make any sense.

BHVR, instead of creating an add-on that does everything and giving it a huge downside, split up the benefits.

Remove the turnrate reduction and keep the look angle and speed. You can forgo the additional power tokens. Or split up the effects. I'd love an add-on that just gives look angle increase of 20 degrees. That could replace one of the many worthless browns. Or one that increases power tokens by 2 and decreases the recharge rate (idea for a green).

Instead, we now have 1 add-on that's worth running in the game and the downside only widens the gap between console and PC players.

If we're talking about balance, look angle and turn rate make the biggest difference to console players. Since we struggle to change direction in the same way a PC player can due to DPI sensitivity. Many console players run both turn rate add-ons to compensate for this.

Considering your approach to balance, I'm pretty shocked this hasn't been factored into your rework.

It's one thing reworking problematic add-ons and doing it well so there's actually benefits to running them. What we have here is not a rework. It's an utter demolition of any form of useful add-ons for this killer.

And this approach to reworks and game balance is why myself and many others have decided to move away from the game for good.

Comments

  • ctrlaltdefeat36
    ctrlaltdefeat36 Member Posts: 6
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    It's not about "best" (which is subjective anyway). It's about utility. Do they have enough utility that people will actually bother to run them. And the answer in the Blight's case is no.

  • fussy
    fussy Member Posts: 1,164
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    No, it wan't. No 55% turn rate penalty was the only thing that justified Vial other effects.

    Flat 5%? Barely noticeable.

    7 tokens? You don't need it in 90% of scenarios, and when you do need them, you have bigger cooldown for it.

    If this addon had 10,5 sec recharge at least, yeah, turn rate downside could have sense. Now it has no sense.

    Devs said "it seems to us that we left this addon in a weak state" before buff, but then after reading a few outrages they changed their minds. Like always, there is no balancing, there is who is crying louder.

    Now this addon only worth running with C33. And it still mediocre combo.

    His addons needed nerf, except speed addons. I loved addons variety too and it's sad devs couldn't save it.

    But i still play him, because he is fun even without addons (but nowhere as strong).

    But seems like they want to nerf his basekit and i know that many killer will left this game after this. It's really bold to nerf one of the most balanced kit and one of the most popular killer in the game. Good luck with queue after June, i guess.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,245
    edited February 12
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    I don't see why it would be bad to nerf something that is way overtuned to bring it more in line with the rest of the game. Both sides want to have fun and if one side is so much stronger that the other is screwed anyway that can't really happen. There is not much fun in losing against a specific loadout more than they actual player.

  • ctrlaltdefeat36
    ctrlaltdefeat36 Member Posts: 6
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    That's why they should break up the add-on's effects. This would make it less powerful and provide more utility without the need for a major downside.

    Not true. I've been playing the game actively for quite some time and have been heavily following Twitch streamers in the space for a while too. Further, I've been closely following this forum for some time as a reader. Just because I don't spend all day on this forum posting doesn't mean I don't have solid suggestions for improvements to the game. It's not about fitting my mold. It's about having utility for add-ons for one of the most popular killers in the game. And making it more fair between console vs PC. It's also about the mindset behind many of these changes being made which do nothing but frustrate people.

    Which side is so much stronger? Standard M1 killers in Dead By Daylight today feel so weak it's almost pitiful. They get bullied all the time by survivors and can barely get a few hooks per match. Killers should be powerful, not have survivors running circles around them like they do for so many characters.

    "Survivor main has entered the room" 😂.

  • ctrlaltdefeat36
    ctrlaltdefeat36 Member Posts: 6
    edited February 12
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    I couldn't agree more.

    "Devs said "it seems to us that we left this addon in a weak state" before buff, but then after reading a few outrages they changed their minds. Like always, there is no balancing, there is who is crying louder."

    They went back on their changes within a few days because people threw their toys out of the pram.

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • ctrlaltdefeat36
    ctrlaltdefeat36 Member Posts: 6
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    This assumptive, loaded and plain false statement says a lot about you.

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,454
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    Look forward to when AI takes over devs role. It will balance the game in seconds and can also create brand new maps for every single game. Of course that is years from now but humans are super slow making changes and not very good at it. Until then this game will always be frustrating.

  • Cypherius
    Cypherius Member Posts: 130
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    Assumptive? I am simply reading between the lines. Not the first time i see something like this happen. You are not the first to complain about something overpowered being nerfed. Not in general and not in this game either.

    Good for you if Blight is fun for you but your experience is not the only one that matters and playing against his stronger builds is not fun or fair at all. Blight's base kit alone make him very strong and more powerful than most killers. The minor nerfs he got to his addons did not change that. He is still too strong.

    Is it not entitled to ignore the experience of the other side while you complain about nerfs to the second strongest killer in the game?

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,245
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    Which side is so much stronger?

    S-tier killers are a class of their own. They are S-tier because they are so much stronger than the rest. I'd go as far to say, that a select few A-tier killers with specific sets of addons are pretty much on par with them. They are stronger than everything you can expect to encounter in public games, so they give you an advantage, that allows you to win even when you are playing worse.

    The game is pretty balanced with the exception of a few killers (or adddons) that are too strong and some that are too weak. The scales are tipped slightly in favor of the killer as well, if we go by the last official kill rates and the kill rates we have on Nightlight (not the most reliable source but seeing as it's pretty constant slightly above 50% I think it counts).

    Standard M1 killers in Dead By Daylight today feel so weak it's almost pitiful. They get bullied all the time by survivors and can barely get a few hooks per match.

    Are M1 killers weak? Yes. Can you still perform well with them? Absolutely. The MMR prevents you from playing in leagues where you lose and get bullied all the time. You plateau at some point and from there on, you will win some and lose some (in somewhat equal measures). The exceptions to this rule are some maps that turn the favor so much in the survivors' favor, that you basically cannot win, if you don't play a lot better than them. Also, you don't have to choose between Blight (with Adrenaline Vial) and M1 killers. There are enough killers in between that you could choose and some of them are pretty damn powerful.

    Killers should be powerful, not have survivors running circles around them like they do for so many characters.

    Are you referring to looping or is that just an expression for survivors that have the power role? Looping is kind of the intended counterplay that survivors have in chase. That isn't really a problem. If you don't like that, then maybe this is simply not the game for you (or you should play a killer like Knight, Artist, Spirit, Nurse and Skull Merchant). It's an integral part of the survivor role and the only really interactive part between killer and survivor.

    Outside of that, survivors typically only do that to get some kind of reaction out of you (mostly anger or annoyance). It's a sure sign, that they do not feel threatened. In which case, you don't apply enough pressure. If that is where you have issues, then I'm sure many of us would be happy to give you a few pointers on what you can do in different situations. You just need to ask. Even better, if you can provide some gameplay footage.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,306
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    And this is why having one tier list is dangerous for the game.

    No; S tier killers aren’t stronger than anything you can expect to encounter in public games, because the majority of players aren’t playing against killers that play at top 0.01% MMR S-tier level.

    The strongest killers players can expect to encounter in public games, depends on their MMR level, as some killers are wildly stronger or weaker at different MMR levels.

  • Rick1998
    Rick1998 Member Posts: 95
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    Alltough you are right and OP is exagerating this. I do have to say they butchered both his iridescents to the point they make you weaker then basekit. Nerfing an add on is one thing and killing it is another. C33 removing 60% of your power feom 5 to 2 rushes all for some minor turn rate and distance is literally a nerf from basekit.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,245
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    What it means is that S-tier killers can easily achieve results that other killers wouldn't even if they were to play just as good (sometimes better).

    For example Blight is definitely stronger than Freddy. In order to perform well with Freddy you need to play quite a bit better than the survivors because he is simply too weak. Blight on the other hand can steamroll them easily even if he plays worse.

    I am definitely not a good Blight player but everything I can do with Freddy, I can do with Blight. A lot easier at that. Blight has one of the best mobility powers in the game with a pretty moderate cooldown and it also serves as a very strong chase power. As long as you don't hinder yourself by playing extremely bad, you can expect to beat a lot of survivor groups effortlessly.

  • bjorksnas
    bjorksnas Member Posts: 5,170
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    Sounds like you like games where the better player can consistently win and you don't have to rely on a team. Unfortunate but dbd has always shifted towards a 60% kill rate so unless every other player is bad to balance you out the game eventually shifts downwards. Good luck in finding something else where personal skill feels like it has a massive impact. Frankly thats why I used to love VHS because I ended up with a 98% winrate on monster because it was all about personal skill.

  • TWS001
    TWS001 Member Posts: 122
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    Fifa (or EA FC24) has had 9 patches so far since it's release at the end of September. They've nerfed the high pressure that made the centre of the pitch impossible to play through if you didn't have very low ping, they've nerfed finesse shots, they've nerfed whipped crosses, they're about to nerf absolutely broken trivela shots.

    Every company that offers live content balances their game every so often. COD, Warzone, Fortnite, PUBG, TCM, they all keep an eye an what becomes broken or OP or has an extremely high usage rate and balance it at set intervals. Blight add ons have been top of most people's list of what needed balancing in DBD for as long as I've played the game since 2021. There are even Blight players that used just shadowborn (before the FoV update recently) and no other perks or add ons because they felt it was unfair to use anything else and they would still mostly 3 or 4K every game.

    You do make some good points but maybe you just need a break and play another game for a bit and then you'll enjoy the game again in a few months time. Think that has happened to most people on here at some point!. Enjoy whatever you play and good luck on Fifa!

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
    edited February 12
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    You can hate changes and you are free to have whatever opinion you want but what's the point of talking about your job? It's kinda weird

  • Xyvielia
    Xyvielia Member Posts: 2,415
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    Awesome! Haven’t seen a group exodus post on these forums, yet. Kinda cool.

    You’re gonna love your newfound downtime.

    I’ve accomplished so much in the past 6 1/2 months of not playing DBD more than a few times… very rewarding.

    If you do plan on returning eventually to game DBD, be sure and not stray too far from keeping yourself acclimated with the frequency of changes that take place here, on the regular; otherwise, you’ll be too far removed from ever successfully being able to hop back in w/o needing a entire study manual for avoiding complete in-game decimation.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,404
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    Alc Ring is definitely not a nerf from basekit.

    C33 I could see, but frankly, deserved.

  • DrDucky
    DrDucky Member Posts: 675
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    They reverted adre vial so the look angle thing debuff is back.

  • YamamuraVideoRentals
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    The great thing about games and fictional stories is that they don't have to obey the laws of nature.

    There is always going to be a meta in a game. The question is, is it actually fun to play (or go against) and moreover, is it unbalanced to the point of being broken?

  • katoptris
    katoptris Member Posts: 3,060
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    Blight got a slap on the wrist. Be grateful considering hillbilly was considered balance yet got nerfed.

  • Nun_So_Vile
    Nun_So_Vile Member Posts: 2,065
    edited February 13
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    Blight has Nurse DNA in him. No matter how much they chip away at his power with nerfs, he'll always be a top-tier menace.

    Also, no tl;dr?

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,023
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    While OP's reason for leaving DBD is somewhat exaggerated, he does point out that devs have this fixation with introducing/buffing perks to be strong and become surprised when the majority of the population uses said perks constantly and nerfs said perks. This leads to most people either using the next best perks or whatever new strong perks was introduced or buffed in the latest patch.

    It's an endless cycle.

  • IamFran
    IamFran Member Posts: 1,600
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    TL;DR: I'll leave the game because Blight is less OP now.