http://dbd.game/killswitch
Tune Down Deja Vu Now that 3 Genning is Gone?
Being able to do gens constantly 6% faster feels kind of insane now that 3 genning isn't a thing. I think the aura reading is already strong enough.
Comments
-
It's 6%!! It literally shaves off like 4 seconds off a gen and only on 3 gens at a time! Most of it's strength isn't from gen speed, it's knowing where the 3-gens are so Survivors don't end up in a 3-gen in the first place.
And the system is flawed anyway, it's not just 3-genning that's gone (although it's not entirely gone) it's gen-defense in general that took a blow and tunneling that got encouraged.
Most people use it because Gold progress bar = Dopamine XD
Post edited by Skillfulstone on9 -
Just change it back to the previous version (aka what it was in 6.1.0), it was fine then
2 -
Only if you run it by itself. Add toolboxes and other perks to the mix.
I personally run it with my stake out/hyperfocus/fogwise build and have had a ton of matches of me doing more than half the gen progress by myself and breaking any killer 3 gens before they become a problem. It's pretty strong if the killer leaves me alone at all.
1 -
So nerfing Deva Vu wouldn't really do anything in that scenario. The gens would still fly by. You would have to nerf everything else you mentioned to have any real impact.
The 6% from Deja Vu is not the problem.
5 -
It's the same issue as MFT was though, unlimited bonus, pairs extremely well with other perks, and no drawback or cooldown. MFT also had the argument that 3% wasn't much, but paired with other perks it became a much bigger problem.
Heck, Deja Vu doesn't even need a massive nerf like MFT though. Just needs to be put back to how it was before BHVR was looking into the 3 gen fix. Or you could make it go on cooldown when a generator is done for x amount of time so it's available to break a tough 3 gen later, but the 3 gen protection we have already makes that a moot point and it would make Visionary even worse to run.
1 -
3% haste has substantially more impact than 6% increased gen repair speed. It's not even close.
Again, nerfing Deja Vu does next to nothing to fix the complaint that killers have about gen speeds. If you want to fix that then toolboxes should be your target.
5 -
Oh I highly agree with this, and I use MFT as an example on problematic synergies mostly, but I wouldn't ignore the fact that Deja Vu gives you unlimited vision on the closest 3 gens the entire time as well. Not to mention it makes other gen aura perks more useless to run to boot.
But I do agree, toolboxes should be looked at before Deja Vu as well.
1 -
I'm sure toolboxes will get nerfed at some point. I was expecting it shortly after medkits got nerfed, but it still hasn't happened yet.
When I hear people complaining about Deja Vu it feels like watching someone side step a pot hole and then fall of a bridge in the process.
3 -
Well consider that Deja Vu only got buffed because of the 3 gen issue, as was said as much when it happened. It's only natural people would ask why it wasn't reverted now that 3 gen has a solid fix.
1 -
I don't think the 3 gen problem is completely fixed though. Killers can still hold one for a really long time. I've had matches where the killer holds one for over 30 minutes. Not to mention that solo queue teams and average skilled survivors still get destroyed by the strategy.
The fix only really addressed the ability for a killer to hold a 3 gen indefinitely. That's great for those meeting the worst kind of SM player, and I'm glad it's fixed, but the 3 gen strat is still incredibly powerful against solo players and survivors with less than hundreds of hours of play time. That wouldn't be an issue if solo and average survivors didn't include the majority of the playerbase, but it does.
0 -
Deja Vu is so much of a nothing perk, I don't understand why killers get so uppity about it when the likes of Hyperfocus, Toolboxes and Resilience exist. It's info is far more useful than the 6% speed buff that only shaves off about 4 seconds, IF you manage to stick to that gen for the entire 86 seconds anyway.
I'd much, much rather Toolboxes got a rework similar to Medkits last year, that completely negates their ability to stack with perks of a similar nature.
Also consider that Bloodlust was only added to the game so killers could deal with infinite tile loops. Those loops are long gone but we still have Bloodlust.
BHVR work in a "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy, both Bloodlust and Deja Vu are absolutely fine in their current states, regardless of the reason they were created for. They won't remove them 'out of principle' but IF they become a problem. If their stats show that Deja Vu is definitively contributing to lower kill rates, it will get nerfed.
5 -
I'd argue there are still quite a few infinite loops without bloodlust. Not as many, but some are there. Also, bloodlust isn't a massive threat because there are multiple ways it deactivates, from using powers to breaking pallets. I still don't understand the bloodlust arguments honestly, because even in my worst games it's rarely ever hitting tier 2.
Deja Vu is a bandaid on a mostly healed wound still, and again, makes other gen aura perks pointless to run.
1 -
The 6% could be something that only activates when only 3 gens remain, but even then it's not that much to even complain about. You'll just end up seeing other perks more often, so gen bonuses will still exist in some form.
1 -
Just for accuracy:
- 90 charges at 1 c/s = 90/1 = 90 seconds
- 90 charges at 1.06 c/s = 90 / 1.06 = 84.9 seconds
Deja Vu saves 5.1 seconds, not 4 seconds. (Unless I've made a big mistake somewhere, please correct me if so)
The best toolboxes are +50% speed with max charges for comparison:
- 52 charges at 1.5 c/s = 52 / 1.5 = 34.67s
- + 38 charges remaining at 1 c/s = 34.67s + 38 = 72.67s.
That's right, even the best toolboxes configurations only save you 17.33s overall. Now don't get tricked by that number, Deja Vu is not almost a third the value of a Toolbox, that'd be a false conclusion... Deja Vu grants its effects over the course of the entire gen repair, whereas toolboxes can get a significant boost at a key moment in the game.
However given toolboxes are finite and Deja Vu is permanent, the 6% it provides is not insignificant over the course of the entire game. Do not forget that 4 survivors can take it... this is something that must always be considered in any balance discussion.
It is really hard to quantify due to the number of variables involved, but given that this 5s is always available, it's not an insignificant time saving throughout the game.
Surge knocks 7.2 seconds off gens each proc, Pain Res knocks off 22.5 seconds for each hook, and these perks are considered strong. 5 seconds available at all times across all survivors is actually a big deal.
With that in mind, I'd say Deja Vu does more than any other survivor gen perks, and makes a lot of its competitors obsolete. Personally I think the permanent 3gen information it provides is probably value enough... though I also don't think it needs nerfing really, as is it in the same tier of value as say Sprint Burst? (but then again, that's as a low level SoloQ survivor, so I'm probably ignorant)...
If Deja Vu does get nerfed, of the choices available, I'd prefer its bonus be granted to Rookie Spirit or something after you stop a gen from regressing for as long as you hold it. Also remove Visionary's cooldown pl0x.
Post edited by UndeddJester on2 -
if its strength is knowing where gens are, then you don't mind the 6% bonus going.
my problem with it is that it reverts gen speed nerf to pre 6.1.0 level. So survivor get free base-kit BT but no gen speed nerf because deja vu replaces old BT. It is also low commit perk, i.e survivor can run Adrenaline+Exhaust+w/e with this perk.
A nothing perk means that you don't mind the 6% going. After all, it is nothing change. right?
that's fine because you commit an entire build towards gens which allows killer to tunnel you as you are weak link, chase-wise.
0 -
I wouldn't be too bothered if the 6% was nerfed or removed entirely, I'd probably still run it. I just don't see it as a problem, or as a threat when playing killer.
It really doesn't revert to pre 6.1 gen speeds though, it's sacrificing a perk slot to go halfway back to pre 6.1.
0 -
Fair enough man, but I sit with @Devil_hit11 on this one, and it's born out the issue of, when comparing perks, 5 seconds is 5 seconds...
Like if we're debating between perks to pick from for gen auras, each with different triggers, ranges, target conditions and durations, e.g.: -
- Deja Vu
- Visionary
- Rookie Spirit
- Detective's Hunch
We can argue about all the different situations they activate, and when they'll be useful, how much value on average we would expect, and we'd come to rough consensus they are roughly equal. Like some would be better than others most of the time, but there'd be a discussion worth having, as you can account for the perks weaknesses to make use of the strength.
If I just then say "One of these also has a permanent small boost to your repair speed that saves appoximately 5 seconds per gen", every other talking point beyweennthese perks kinda becomes obsolete, because whatever your preference of these perks is, the one with the repair bonus is objectively the strongest perk. That boost can be the difference between beating a Pain Res or a Grim Embrace, denying a Pop, completing a gen for your Adrenaline proc.
Compare this to the Sprint Burst, Lithe, BL and Dead Hard discussion. Even with thinking SB is the most powerful perk in isolation, there are scenarios where it does get outshone by the other perks... but in the case of the gen aura perks, Deja Vu is never meaningfully outshone... It'd be like saying "We have all these exhaustion perks, Sprint Burst is probably the best, and most versatile, but we're also gonna give it a 5 second shorter exhaustion recovery as well".
This makes it so any thoughts on picking anything else is trumped by that. Deja Vu wins by default every time. I still run the other perks time to time, but it comes with a reluctant acknowledgement that Deja Vu is the better choice...
0 -
it almost reverts it. another aspect of the perk that is annoying is that it encourages survivors to 2-man stack of gens. weak killer are balanced around survivor walking to useless gens and survivors being afraid to use pallets. not stacking on correct gens, pre-dropping pallet smartly and pre-running. I notice player that use deja vu tends to do all those things.
0 -
Thing is, even with the 6% gone, Deja Vu would still beat out those other perks due to the fact that it reveals precisely the gens you need to repair, permanently.
Meanwhile, repair speed boosts need to be moderated, but there's stil room for them to exist, and the 6% from Deja Vu is minimal compared to most others.
Individually neither is a problem, but I can totally see some of the other gen info perks being buffed in exchange for Deja Vu losing the 6%.
0 -
Youre dead right. The buff existing is fine, but the problem with it being on Deja Vu is its not even worth considering the other perks, cause whatever niche they may offer, just... nah... run Deja Vu.
My immediate thought is give the 6% to Rookie Spirit whilstsoever you keep hold of the generator you stopped from regressing. That would give that perk a much needed buff, and with Visionary losing it's cooldown, each perk would be in the running as a reasonable choice.
0 -
you know dbd is in a pretty healthy state perk wise if on survivor side people are complaining about deja vu. deja vu is a good perk, don't get me wrong, but suggesting it gets toned down is wild. i genuinely don't think it's strong enough to justify that. if you're so concerned about gen speeds, look into toolboxes. i feel nerfing any even somewhat overperforming survivor perk and not giving any perk buffs in return is what's adding to the lack of build diversity you guys are seeing. if you guys want survivors to use different perks, encourage buffing weaker ones lol
Post edited by aerie on1 -
I think this is a fair argument actually. I've seen people complain about broken builds when it takes a committed amount of perk slots to run said build and can sometimes be a risk with other areas, for example the recent DMS/GE/PainRes combo that can only work a set amount of times in a trial, or certain endgame builds on both sides.
I think my only real problem with the current Deja Vu is how it has an endless bonus when it comes to an objective speed. I also have this issue with certain haste bonuses like on Skull Merchant since it makes the objective faster to do. Not to mention, Deja Vu makes a lot of other gen aura builds pointless to run if it points to the best gens to finish all the time.
I'd even be convinced to boost the bonus to 10% repair speed if it had it's 50 second window back like before if it were to be reverted. That said, even I think that while I'd like to have it at it's original spot, we may need to let it cook a little longer to see if it does become a problem with the new anti-3 gen. I can theorize and explain my experience running it all day but as killer I don't see it very often myself.
2 -
I personally think Deja Vu is in a good spot. It is an useful information perk and 6% are not that much in this case. In addition, as a Deja Vu-user you will not always repair the Deja Vu-generators - you will do a not Deja Vu-generator, beeing in chase, going for unhook ect. However, maybe in the future when bigger issues are solved, we can talk about it again to see if this perk is really too strong or not.
A much bigger issue are toolboxes and their addons like other users already mentioned. These need a nerf and rework because they are too powerful as an item. I really hope the developers will rework them in the near future.
2
