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I think BHVR needs to take a serious step back with this PTB
I'm not even joking- A lot of people don't seem to like the changes for all 3 Huntress, Pig, and Clown which should be an instant red flag to them that they messed up with these changes.
For me this is what I think about the changes:
- Clown's changes are fine, but have the problem of him getting 2 more bottles when he has his Pinky Finger addon meaning you're indirectly buffing an already hated addon.
- Huntress' changes are fine with the extra hatchets and faster move speed while aiming, but the problem is that Flower Babushka already gave +10% windup speed so by making her base-kit windup speed 10% faster that means that you're actually buffing this addon even though you're saying that you're nerfing it to compensate for the buff.
- And Pig's changes are just simply not justifiable at all in the slightest. Her core power is her traps instead of her Ambush yet you're wanting to make her less reliant on her core power which makes zero logical sense. You're making her even more reliant on already heavily reliant addons due to the +30 seconds you're adding to her timer. And, worst of all, these changes to her DON'T EVEN FIX her core problems with her Ambush and crouch/stealth capabilities such as the issues of 1) her moving slower than the survivors while crouching and you can't use the Ghostface argument to even try to justify that because Ghostface doesn't even need to be crouched for his stealth to work whereas Pig does so she doesn't even have that option, 2) whenever she's charging up her Ambush she gets glued to the floor which is what makes it so bad to use in chase to even begin with since it gives survivors plenty of time to get away to a safe spot, and 3) the absurd roar she does while charging her Ambush is what COMPLETELY DESTROYS her stealth since that audio is directional and gives survivors a very early warning to her presence.
Comments
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I don't think that immediate gut reactions from people who haven't even had the option to test the changes being talked about should be taken as any immediate red flag to step back and reconsider. I think it's fair for BHVR to at least wait until the PTB is live and actually able to be tested before they pay that close attention.
There's also a couple things worth noting here. For one, they aren't buffing the Flower Babushka, they state outright it's being adjusted to compensate. For two, Pig isn't even remotely reliant on the trap timer addons unless you're very specifically trying to get reliable head pops. For three, people do actually mind the extra hatchets change, that's the change I see called out the most, but that's subjective.
TL;DR, changes need to be tested before feedback has weight and you've maybe misread a few changes separately to that.
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How often do you see a Pig who isn't running neither one of her Gear addons nor Tampered Timer? Because I've only seen it on very rare occasions where they're trying to do something specific.
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I don't know, I don't really keep track. It wouldn't really change anything either way, if a lot of people have decided they want to get reliable head pops it doesn't magically become the purpose of RBTs.
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Tbf i dont think i need to test pinky finger with the new update to know how abysmal itll be. Same for 10 hatchet huntress with windup or hatchet movement speed. Since all that does is further amplify what makes them annoying. Clown with 9 bottles even without pinky finger could be annoying to face if he just pelts you with it over and over since he doesnt lose distance unlike others. But ill see when it releases.
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That's not the point- Unless her core flaws/problems get outright fixed or even have her stealth and Ambush reworked minor changes like these aren't gonna stop her from being reliant on her traps and nerfing her traps before fixing her isn't how you try to resolve the problem. At the end of the day all that really does is instigate her core problems to an even more extent.
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Sure, but that also doesn't mean that BHVR should immediately take a step back and reconsider. This community is extremely notorious for massive overreactions to things that might not even be problems to begin with, and also extremely prone to not fully considering what the changes actually are before getting mad - see here, where OP states that Huntress will get to stack her windup buff with the addon that already does that.
I also think some of these changes are likely to be too much, but that doesn't mean I'm automatically right or that BHVR should make decisions based on immediate gut reactions to a dev update.
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Right, but they aren't nerfing the part of the traps she's reliant on, they're nerfing the timer. That part won't matter because the point of the traps isn't to get head pops with them.
You'll notice the box aura thing a little more, but decent tracking skills and some info perks will resolve that, so it won't be a big deal either.
Overall, Pig is getting buffed, that's inarguable. Her stealth and Ambush are getting marginally better, and her traps aren't meaningfully changing at all.
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Just as supersonic853 said, some things don't need to be tested to know just how bad the changes are-
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And just as I said, that doesn't mean BHVR should take gut reaction feedback as an immediate red flag that they messed up. At most, they should use it as direction for what to keep an eye on when the testing actually starts.
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these changes are awful and unfair to survivors, as most updates since 2022
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Again, as long as she's being weighed down by her core problems no changes are gonna fix her at all unless they are extreme buffs to outweigh her problems and then that can cause more issues for the survivor side. It's pretty much not arguable at this point that Pig needs way more help than what BHVR are doing right now.
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Okay, but that still just means she doesn't change, not that she's being nerfed. If the only changes are slight buffs that won't fix her core problems and even more slight nerfs that won't even be noticed, she's still overall improving very slightly.
I think those buffs will help more than you do, but neither of us will know for sure before we can test. I'm personally of the opinion that there's no reason for Pig to still be slower than survivors while crouched, but the other buffs should be fairly noticeable.
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Like most things in this game, balance comes out of player behaviour… and pig players overwhelmingly decide to play one particular way consistently especially when they have lost the match.
anything that doesn’t make it easy for that play style is warranted imo.
i do wish they would make the roar sound happen not on “wind up” but as she’s ambushing. You can fake her ambush her current way but I feel like positioning the attack would be better during the ambush.
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They've done these kinds of changes to Pig throughout her life time in DBD and yet all the other were hardly even noticeable due to how little of a dent they put into her core problems. If it didn't work the last few times they tried it then it's more than just likely to not work again and any nerfs she receives to her kit is always gonna be significant as long as this issue continues with her.
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That's what BHVR wants to try doing with these nerfs she's receiving, but the thing is is that this play style for Pig primarily exists for the sole reason of the rest of her kit being horrendously bad. That's the hole reason the Slugdako play style started with Onryo in the past because her entire kit besides from her condemn slugging was horrendously weak. They fixed that problem with Onryo and now that play style is hardly thought about anymore so if they were to do the same with Pig then it'd more than likely bear the same kind of results.
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What do you mean?
The last documented change to Pig (not counting the snuffing totems thing) was the update that gave her an extra box and adjusted the RNG of searches-- which was the change that actually made her traps reliably consistent and singlehandedly catapulted her out of the "bad killer" ranks and into the "actually pretty good" ranks. It did work the last time they did it, that update was a massive buff to her consistency.
At this stage, I have to ask, what do you think the core issues with her kit are?
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I already explained the biggest core problems to her kit in the main post-
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Can someone explain what's happening with Clown? He's my main and I didn't know they were changing him so that's concerning
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Oh, the core issues with the Ambush, right. My mistake, I thought you meant her core issues overall, which actually were majorly addressed last time she got a buff. I also thought you might still be talking about her somehow being reliant on the timer addons for her head traps.
I think it's very possible that these buffs will help the Ambush be more useful, but we won't know until we test it. Like I've said, I do think there's no real reason for her to move slower than survivors while crouched, but the faster in/out and the increase in Ambush distance probably will have some effect. We really do just have to test these changes.
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He's getting 2 more bottles basekit, Antidote clouds activate quicker and their buff lasts longer, and the visual distortions for survivors are being removed.
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They're giving him 1 more second to the haste effect, making the yellow gas activate 0.5 seconds faster, and giving him 2 more bottles at his base-kit with the minor nerf of the visual affects for his purple gas being less obnoxious to help with motion sickness.
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Thank god they're good changes. Personally I'm fine with them just making antidote activate quicker, because it is pretty inconvenient to use at a lot of loops.
I was worried they were gonna pull a Freddy.
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They didn't say that they're removing the gas effect and are just reducing it, but, knowing how poor BHVR are at wording stuff, it could easily just be code that they're removing it. Who knows at this point with their bad wording when it comes to stuff like that.
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It will be funny if at the PTB it turns out that all these changes were just a small compensation for tougher and more serious nerfs. At a minimum, we possibly will have a massacre of addons.
with just a couple of changes they can worsen the experience of a potentially interesting chapter, thanks bhvr
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The only problem everyone has with the extra bottles right now is that Pinky Finger just removes 3 bottles and doesn't put a limit on the amount of bottles you can have so you can essentially have 5 Pinky Finger bottles again which is a bit of a problem.
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I agree.
We need the chance to test things before jumping to conclusions. Hopefully the PTB feedback will be acknowledged this time.
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With clown's pinkie finger addon they could just make it like huntress iri where the maximum is just 1 bottle regardless of other addons.
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I was feeling pretty excited about the new chapter reveal tomorrow but this news has significantly dampened that. I guess it makes the wait easier now that I don't care as much.
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