How do we buff solo survivors?
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Do you think there's no skill in effectively evading the killer? And doing gens isn't complicated sure but is there no game sense involved in knowing what gens to work on and when? Is that not a form of game sense?
This seems like going down the rabbit hole I see most people go down with games in general where they don't see game sense as a skill and suggest only mechanical skill matters.
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1. A move away from the current MMR, amd move it to focus more on performance during trials, based on scores or BP gained in categories at the end.
2. An improved introductory system where SoloQ Survivors can practice different aspects of the game, especially learning tiles and chases.
3. A guide to understanding how to read the HUD better and understand what certain situations mean.
I feel the issue is based around skill, learning and relying too much on Perks getting them through. Learning how to play the game to a competent level to start with, and allowing them to become more confident in what to do, would improve the overall quality and enjoyment of the game.
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Not going to happen. Whoever runs the dev team is obsessed with killers being stronger than survivors to the point where the game is miserable for anyone who isn't sweating. This is a hill they are absolutely going to die on. The fact that they buffed HUNTRESS and HAG of all killers tell you what you need to know. They will stick to this strategy even if the game continues to lose players year on year. As has been the case for years now.
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I have not said that there is no skill involved in evading a killer. Of course this requires some skill as well. Just not a lot. It's like going for an unhook. It doesn't take a lot of skill but it does work towards helping your team. However a survivor that loops the killer for 5 minutes and then dies is a lot more skillful in that match than the guy that only repairs 1 gen and keeps on hiding for the rest of the game and escapes.
My goal is to balance this out. So that the overall strength of a solo queue team becomes more consistent. That means there shouldn't be 1 guy carrying everone else and 1 guy that barely contributes at all but 4 survivors that all carry their weight or at least try to do so.
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Right but what if there's 4 people on a team that only loop and have no interest in doing gens? I can't tell you how many people I've heard or seen say "Only looping is fun I'm not touching a gen it's boring af" now those people may be very skillful loopers indeed that could all go on a minute plus chase but if everyone only wants to screw with the killer and not touch gens nobody is leaving. Or in another case there's nothing suggesting people who loop are particularly altruistic and they rush to unhook their teammates to avoid having them go second stage.
I'm not trying to be difficult or anything I'm just pointing out potential problems in only rewarding looping or rewarding looping more than anything else.
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If all 4 survivors are god tier loopers but they die because they don't touch gens, that is completely on them. But I'm not sure they should lose MMR for that. Because it would lead to them playing against even worse killers in which case we would ruin one side's experience because the other doesn't try to win. That's how bully squads operate. They will die but their goal isn't to survive anyway. It's to make their opponent miserable.
Good point though because it is a potential issue indeed. If you can think of a solution I'd be very interested to hear that. Right now, I can't come up with one.
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Actually let matchmaking do its job and make big changes to backfill functionality (or better yet, nuke it entirely) is the #1 way, but I'm fully aware that's likely a delusional pipe dream. Would be reverted in under a weeek as the "game too sweaty!" tsunami rages as it always does when they nudge sbmm even a little bit.
So since that's likely off the table, show perks or at LEAST communicate info that massively changes how perks are used. If you know the Adam that just went 1st hook has active Deliverance ready, you know he's chilling and can self unhook last second if needed. If you know the Bill on the ground has Unbreakable even before studying how fast he recovers, you can let him get up himself if needed. If you know it's the Meg on the hook's Kindred and not your own that lets you see auras, you know that all the other survivors see them too (VERY useful information).
Preferably an easy way to see loadouts in general, but I do totally recognize that showing them pre-game might be a bad idea as unless backfill logic gets nuked from orbit the last thing we need is more dodging. At least put them on the in-game pause menu, maybe an option to show them next to the survivors down in the corner (toggle as I 100% agree that could end up looking cluttered) but communicate very high impact stuff like "yo the guy on the hook can unhook himself with Deliverance" as mentioned above in seperate ways.
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As solo survivor, what I'd like to see is:
- A basekit weaker version of kindred that shows only the aura of your teammates even if for a few seconds, just to know who is closer to the hooked person.
- Some kind of indicator for perks like power struggle or head on, so teammates/you can act according to those perks.
- Maybe a way to tell teammates when someone is going for Pinhead's box.
Most of the time, what makes soloQ horrendous is human behavior and you can't fix that tho...like teammates unhooking you in front of a tunneling killer, even with kindred.
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The problem is that they don't want survival rates that high. Pre-update 6.1, the survivor rate was 47% iirc. It dropped down to 39% after 6.1 and the devs said this was a successful change. We got the HUD, which apparently increased escape rates a measly 1% (if that), but the devs outright said it was a quality of life update and won't impact on escape rates. Which they were correct about. So I imagine any further update to survivor will purely be something the devs don't anticipate will affect escape rates.
Re the topic - I think a chat wheel would work, or as someone else suggested the other day, the ability to communicate via small icons above survivor heads. So if you're injured but want a heal, you can place a small cross above your head. If you don't want a heal, then maybe a symbol to indicate 'leave me alone'?
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I think the solution could be rather simple, we could just tie MMR to emblems I mean not the totem part of lightbringer but everything else yes. Is the big picture objective focused person mostly doing gens or the altruistic person that mostly unhooks and/or heals their teammates the most mechanically skilled player in the world? No possibly not but you're gonna be real thankful to have them on your team if they're legitimately good at what they do just as those players should be thankful to have a skilled looper on their team to buy time for them while they do the objective or save teammates.
I don't think it matters what aspect of the game a survivor is good at as long as they're good at something and I think it avoids rewarding the hiding only teammates because I imagine they don't do much of anything concerning any aspect of the game. Even if you wanted to weigh the chase emblem slightly more than the others I think that's probably fine but I think any MMR system needs to reward multiple types of players so we're not only rewarding one specific skill set and suggesting the others don't matter.
To this end I think BHVR could try out letting survivors put symbols next to their names where they can tell people what they like to focus on is like the haste symbol for people that mostly like to loop, a gen for gen jockeys, and a medical cross for altruistic players. Now they don't have to do what the symbols suggest but it's a way of saying "hey I like to primarily focus on this". I think this could help people find more friends on DBD as well, like say you're a good looper but your teammates don't do gens, well if you get into a lobby with someone with the gen symbol by their name and they do do a good job it could be someone you wanna group up with for a few more games.
Idk that idea probably needs some work but I think it has merit. Although I do see the problem of "you have a gen symbol and then you mostly went for saves and healed" and the like coming up like people might take it too literally but it's worth testing.
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Wait, you want to buff solo survivors even more???
Two thing I can think of is reverting DS back to five seconds and MAYBE making kindred baskit, but other then that I have to ask, what more can we give to to solo que playerts at this point? Anti face camp, basekit BT, the new gen regression rework to prevent three gens, nerfs to gen regression perks across the board, a way for all survivors to see when another survivor is in chase, showing all survivors what specific action another survivor is doing at all times, mangled is being gutted in the next update, solo que has gotten a lot of help over the years. The one other thing they tried was basekit unbreakable, but that PTB it was tried in showed why that should never be attempted again.
I gotta ask, what more do you want??
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Considering they want the escape rate to be where its currently at for solo, they most likely don't need buffs.
QOL changes would be welcome however.
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This is an excellent idea. Not every survivor is an amazing looper and that’s ok; not every survivor needs to be. Some people are really good at prioritizing gen (and gate) completion. Some are really supportive healers. Many players believe looping is the pinnacle of survivor skill in this game but there will always be different ways of being strong.
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Just print better perks. Oh and let us show our perks to our mates in the pre-game lobby.
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Maybe not pre-game lobby, but definitely in game. I feel like pre-game would result in more lobby dodging
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I personally believe survivors should have unique abilities or a class where several survivors can fit into one depending on their specialty. But I doubt bhvr will be bold to do all that. They have a hard time balancing killers as it is. Doing that on survivor side would be too much for them.
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counter strike deathmatch has been going for 25 years and hasnt seen an update in over 20. economies in games create selfishness. why do you think every MMO forum has players crying about toxic elitists and content sellers? simple is good, simple is better. we play this game for fun. only the bozos play to stack up purple flashlights or iri addons for the toon they wish they could be in real life. selfish incentives ruin team oriented games. period.
i will admit that this doesnt relate at all to making solo queue better. sorry to send the train up the wrong track.
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People keep saying they want kindred as basekit. I'm telling you even that would not help.
Ive been running this build for a month now. Aftercare, Kindred, We'll make it and lithe. Not a selfish perk in sight except for lithe. Other ones are for team and for info. Yet even with all that info ive been left to die on my first hook while people do NOTHING.
They can clearly see whos closest and if the killer is there but they don't save. How are you going to fix this?
Aftercare has backfired on me lately too. People who can see me run the killer straight to me. Even while im on death hook or have gen almost done they just straight beam at me with the killer.
This is a people issue, MMR issue. Balancing needs to be done without perks. I still don't think 3500 hour person should be playing with 100 hour andies. Or go against 100 hour killer. If behaviour managed to balance the game that survivors with similar hours would play with eachother im sure soloQ would feel better.
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They should have given the basekit buffs, like the HUD and basekit BT to solo queue only, then they'd be just as strong as SWF.
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Just give us more basic info and fix the matchmaking. If we are going up against a killer with similar MMR, we need survivors on our team with similar MMR too. We can't win with one or two weak links on the team and we can't work as a team if we don't have any info.
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Pretty sure BHVR has mentioned something along those lines in the past. They aren't counted in the MMR or pip systems either.
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We don't know exactly how hatch escapes are counted. They aren't counted as escapes but draws when it comes to MMR but in kill rates there is only escape or kill. Nothing in between.
So the closest thing would be to count that game with only 3 survivors and ignore that one survivor's existence altogether.
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Identity v is another asymetric 4 vs 1 repairing machine, escaping kind of game wich is less focused on pre-team coordination and very centered on individual cleverness to make skillful plays wich ultimatly lead to fun matches most of survivors don't play with a SWF and yet they are very coordinate.
Many of the reasons are also the main ones that differs the game from DBD, for starters they have an incredible pinging system where you can load messages that will be sent globally to the rest of the survivors, things like
"The hunter is near me",
"X% progress on a cipher machine(generators)",
"Forget about saving go for the tie".
make communicating much more easier and especific than the HUD we have in the game. The pings can also inform other survivors on the loadout that the killer has, for example when the killer vaults a window with the killer trait Confined space, the equivalent of Bamboozle, a survivor can highlight it with the ping "The killer has just used Confined space" or "This cipher machine (equivalent of generators) cannot be decoded" when the killer brings the equivalent of corrupt intervension.
They also are given base-kit Inner focus + Kindred and can also see other survivors perks in the lobby.
Also solo-abbilities can synergy well with other solo abbilities like this character called "The puppeter" that cannot be healed (AKA broken status effect) its great to be paired with this other survivor called "The barmaid" that can heal the puppeter with her alcohol mix (Like a Syringe), this way although both character can be used in selfish way the players can get to an agree to collaborate and bypass one characters debuff in a more intelligent way.
Things like this made Idenity v's competitive side bloom more making tournaments things that people wanted to see different from DBD's failed competitive side.
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