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Are the devs serious?
Comments
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Why play this character? Even after this "buff" her chase power is still trash. Her stealth is still terrible and clunky.
As someone who plays a lot of Pig, this couldn't be more wrong. She has the best stealth power in the game, it's on demand, has no cooldown, it lowers her height and doesn't have a lullaby or breathing, no other stealth killer has this full package.
Ghostface has a cooldown, can be revealed, and flaps about like a tarpaulin in a hurricane. Myers breaths like Vader and has to ditch his stealth to kill. Wraith gurgles mouthwash and shimmers like a disco ball. Sadako buzzes at you half a mile away. Alien can't fool the motion sensors.
Additionally, an Ambush used correctly is still effective, both in catching survivors off-guard and often in chase.
Now the slowdown will never kill anyone unless the team is absolutely falling apart
Good, that's the whole point. RBTs are not meant to kill. You are meant to kill. You are the killer.
The mere threat of them forces survivors to remove them, and that provides the slowdown. 30 seconds leeway isn't going to make a difference, a 4 box trap is still going to require you to drop everything and prioritise boxes, and you don't know how many you'll need.
The one and only reason to play this character is going for RBT kills and this patch removes that
GOOD. As a Pig player, I weep for all the Pigs I go against who tunnel the survivor with a trap. You are wasting your slowdown doing that. You leave the trapped survivor alone and pressure the other survivors.
Killer pressure arithmetic is simple. You have one survivor hooked, you chase another survivor, that leaves one going for the rescue and one on gens. Throw a trap into the mix and guess which of those survivor tasks can't be completed? The Gens. You chase the trapped survivor and you have no slowdown.
If all of those Pig players stop playing her that way, then these changes have done their job.
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I think the extended timer is to reduce edge cases. It hardly ever happens, but I've had a couple of times where leaving immediately to start searching boxes while having the trap that requires the highest amount of tries to disarm would not be enough to search all the boxes you need.
It's a once-in-a-blue-moon issue, but I've gotten killed by a slightly too short timer before. It feels terrible because you're left there thinking "What was I supposed to do... I just got RNG'd to literal death."
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The problem I think is that the people disagreeing with you get the trap on a survivor and then like relentlessly tunnel that survivor out. Then they lose b/c the other 3 survivors go ahead and work through the gens and then Pig walks away with a 1K and they’re here in the forums screaming Pig is underpowered.
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There’s no strategy or consistency to that playstyle though. You’re basically just hoping that they don’t get the RBT off early on. It’s better to have control of a zone of the map.
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Think about that the other way around: you get your head trap off almost instantly and Pig loses her pressure to rng. I’ve had it happen where everyone gets their trap off fast and she is stuck without a power.
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There's no strategy or consistency to empowering killer fundamentals? I'm not sure what you're saying.
You're not really hoping for anything, you're capitalising on the fact that there's a survivor guaranteed to not be on generators. Even if one survivor gets it off first try, the normalising of her RNG means you're guaranteed to get more slowdown off the other traps. If you're trying to harass survivors away from boxes consistently, best case scenario you're splitting your attention away from the other survivors you need to pressure and everyone's just less threatened by you than they could be.
More realistically, you're just giving up generator progress while you're also preventing the traps from actually providing any extra slowdown. How can that survivor's trap be slowing down the game more than if you were chasing them... when you're chasing them?
(The timer nerf also still barely matters, to be clear, we won't be drifting away from that point.)
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Not since patch 6.0.0 you haven't.
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I already responded to that point- if the 30 seconds don’t matter, there was no reason to make the change. Like you can’t have it both ways. If you’re saying 30 seconds isn’t impactful, then why would they change it?
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It's not impactful to the killer, because running into it would require you to do something suboptimal, cheesy, and kinda unhealthy for the game.
I'm guessing at why it exists, but I'm assuming it has to do with Pig players very aggressively attempting to force a head-pop, which is what I mean above. Someone above me here also mentioned that it's probably about edge cases on certain maps where you don't actually have enough time to reach all the boxes, and that seems kinda reasonable too.
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Didn't they make it impossible to have everyone remove their traps too fast? I could swear they changed the traps from full random tries to "pick one random trap between the 1-2-3-4 tries traps" every single time.
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I don't see how this appreciably affects the slowdown, honestly. It makes a headpop a lot less likely, but against anything but total babies those were super unlikely before. The traps still need to be dealt with, and dealing with them won't be any quicker.
If they had drastically reduced the time it takes to search a Jigsaw box or made it so you can escape with an active trap on, that would be a whole other thing.
All these changes do to RBT dynamics is that it makes it less likely that absolute potatoes will die to them.
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Except for how now it will be the optimal play to work on gens with your active trap if there are only a handful of gens left. Your RBT gets activated on the hook, and now it's a better choice to completely ignore the power and go work on a gen to get to the endgame instead of removing it because there is no chance of death.
So they have really removed her slowdown if there's 1-2 gens left because you have no reason to do anything other than get off the hook and go work on a gen and get your adrenaline for endgame. Then if the pig can even punish that is probably dubious at best since now you can't see the boxes to find them even at endgame.
And I don't see why people get up in arms over the pig tunneling a headtrap because it's a game-throwing move unless you know what you are doing. You know what's stronger than tunneling boxes? Tunneling someone off the hook. Every killer in the game can tunnel and most of them do it way better than pig. Significantly better than pig, tunneling head traps is a mid strategy on a mid killer and now it's being nerfed for whatever reason along with pigs who play normally
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Survivors didn’t need anymore handholding changes.
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I think even if it doesn't make her necessarily weaker, these changes make her much less interesting. I get that it's sort of lame to deal with, but RBTs as a win condition made Pig unique. They're really the only part of her that tries emulating what Saw is. I think these changes are mostly bad because they assume there's something compelling that RBTs and Ambush compliment, but there's really not. If there was another part to her power, buffing her not-at-all unique dash and nerfing her actually unique RBTs would be fine. The issue isn't that RBTs themselves have been nerfed, it's that BHVR is taking Pig in a direction that makes her a basic dash attack killer with some passive slowdown rather than a killer that represents Saw. If RBTs don't work as the core of her kit, then there should be something else introduced to be, rather than making it the incredibly bland charge I worry both BHVR and the community at large seem to favor.
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guys. I'm playing a saw character, ######### is this bs that the traps never kill anyone? putting people on traps and they becoming unalive is the saw thing.
they already are on a perfectly fine spot where a head pops maybe every 100 traps? there's no need to increase the timer at all.
what's next? sadako doesn't come out of tvs anymore? freddy has no dream world? the traps being deadly IS the flavour of the character, you don't just make it basicaly impossible for no reason.
and the ambush is a pretty bad chase power with some niche uses in it. it's just rarely worth the use, specially if you don't know the geometry well.
ghostface still has the best stealth, not debatable. SHE IS BRIGHT ######### RED! and crouching/standing up has unique sounds that alert survivors paying attention.
so the ambush can use more buffs. including removing the invisible walls on maps so she can climb #########. that was fun.
and to finish... the existence of rule set #2, the gears... all show that playing in a style where the traps are more deadly was always intended by the devs. so can we stop pretending it's not a thing? and that it wasn't nerfed?
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Thank you. Nemesis needs a rocket launcher too.
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The basekit timer didn't really need to change at all, it was tampered timer/Crate Of Gears or double gears that could be oppressive on some maps, fix the add ons and leave the basekit alone.
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Check the cesspool that is twitter a lot of people are trying to spin this as a buff
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its a massive buff to Pig players that have enough time on her and know her trap boxes spawn locations, with the buff to her chase kit she will be able to down people quicker and get traps on them before gens will pop, and that is not all, she can use 3 gen perks and bamboozle and she will be pretty much unstoppable in the right hands.
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As a former pig main this change makes me angry
Like let's nerf the iconic part of her kit while slightly buffing the charge that only works on certain loops and needs addons to get somewhat reliable results with it
While also giving the other killers straight up buffs like ffs
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No one plays pig for the dash, you play for the RBT, that being said, the dash buffs are very welcome.
The RBT nerf just guts pig’s slow down and pressure abilities.
its insane how this is a divisive issue we shouldn’t be fighting each other, rather the fact pig gets a small buff with huge downsides while all other killers get massive buffs is an insane idea.
thought there is a small chance this could be fake? It could be cope but there is no chance in hell a professional game company points out the fact a character is overnerfed and proceeds to nerf it anyways. Considering Behavior’s relationship with the SAW franchise I have a small glimmer of hope this is a bait and switch
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If you're relying on the head pops to get kills as Pig you're going to lose anyway.
Yeah - They're buffing the "worst" part about Pig's kit - That's good. Buffs that make her more viable out of hovering over a RBT key spawner is good.
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Agreed 100%. I'm looking forward to these Pig changes. I've been asking for ambush buffs FOREVER.
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You're wrong... The RBTs are consistent. Your 4 traps are guaranteed to require exactly 12 searches total. Each individual one is different, but the total slowdown provided from 1 game to another is consistent. The days where you could have 4 headtraps come off fast are over. When's the last time you've so much as LOOKED at this killer, lol? This happened a WHILE back.
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You don’t have time to get a trap on everyone, if they know what they’re doing. BHVR added that, and things like new grim to try and encourage spreading pressure, when in reality you’re better off hard focusing on one.
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Bro is talking about “handholding” when they have been buffing alot of killers lately. I bet you were one of those that said that the survivor hud was “handholding” as well
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The follow someone until head pop bit might as well not be playing dbd, it shouldn't be a thing in the first place. My 6 year old nephew could pull of the same thing.
Your still getting immense slowdown, you just can't CHEESE more than two killers in a semi efficient lobby with ZERO skill on your part.
You can defend a blind folded play style and claim it's stronger but anyone who thinks about health would disagree with you.
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I understand that may be the case but pressuring boxes is something pigs do removing this feels wrong, and increasing the timer makes the RBT feel powerless and pointless
also pig isn’t in a place to get any nerfs, the fact that pig has to get a big nerf with decent buffs is laughable compared to other killers buffs this patch
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It's not big nerfs though? They have buffed her chase power and her overall slow down is the same, no? The only thing nerfed about pig is the aforementioned blind folded play style I mentioned.
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It seems pretty clear that their intention is to change Pig from a unique killer to "Do more chases".
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We can only hope they will wake up on how weak she is.
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As I see in this thread, BHVR can just make the traps take 10 minutes to kill a survivor and there will still be people telling aCtuAlly hEr slOwdoWn is FiNe, yOu arE jUsT drAmAtiC.
Just because she can stomp a newbie team that doesn't know what the boxes are for doesn't mean she's strong.
Also, the aura removal is not that bad, as many pointed out, you can patrol the boxes anyway, but that's the exact reason why it's not needed. Good players will just patrol them regardless and bad players will just get confused by it.
If they will go through with these changes, they could make Pig's terror radius 24 meters again. It would help the crouch/ambush a bit.
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i might have some bias with my love for head pop builds so take what I say with some salt, but I just don’t like the changes personally. The RBT changes makes them feel weak… ignoreable which is fine! It was like that somewhat before But it kinda sucks because 70% of her add-ons are about the lethality of the RBT, so making it feel like a head cushion to be removed at your pleasure rather than an inconvenience. My main gripe is that now the RBT’s feel kinda stapled on like
”yeah we gotta stealth killer with a dash , let’s just staple this on and call it a day”
it’s just not good anti-loop, I don’t play pig because I love the dash, I play pig because I wanna use a reverse bear trap! I wanna put the survivors in a saw movie. If I wanted anti-loop I’d play a killer with an actual anti loop!
my frustration comes from the fact that removing the lethality of the Bear traps makes it feel like a slap in the face, and it gets worse because more than half the add-ons are to increase the lethality of the bear traps. I just see wasted potential and get upset
the point is, I understand it was somewhat brain dead to play, but I don’t like the idea of bhvr removing an entire playable of a killer
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Yeah no I'd say the changes still amount to a net nerf for Pig. Even when they buff Pig they nerf her, how sad.
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Absolute joke that they feel the need to nerf her far harder than the buffs they're giving her.
For god's sake, WHY IS SHE STILL SLOWER THAN SURVIVORS WHILE CROUCHED? We have goddamn Billy revving his one shot losing zero ground to survivors, but for Pig to get an elaborate M1 she has to slow herself, THEN stop in place for a full second, THEN she gets to run slightly faster than survivors, at which point they're nowhere near cos they just ran to the next loop while you mind-gamed yourself.
Hell, DEMO has the most comparable attack and he can charge and use it WHILE MOVING AS FAST AS THE SURVIVOR.
There's no justifiable reason why that change didn't boost her crouched speed to at least 4 m/s.
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Not sure about anyone else, but I typically leave the survivors alone for the first minute or so of the bear trap then check the farthest box from where I hook them since it's safe to assume that's where they'd be. Losing the auras while probably a smart thing overall is still very annoying for the guaranteed pressure I can apply by forcing a survivor into a very bad situation by delaying the time to get to the last box. 30 seconds just seems too safe considering you can actively see the box auras even before the trap is active. And I know the whole, "It's supposed to be passive slowdown argument not kills" but for the slowdown to be effective there still has to be some stakes in play. Why not make it so the survivor cannot interact with the boxes until the timer is active or make it so that Rule Set No. 2 is basekit? Kramer certainly wouldn't have made it that easy to get out of the trap. That way there still feels like there is something at stake or at least a bit of pressure to get the box removed rather than just, "Oh no I need to spend about 30 second to a minute running around the map before this next gen pops".
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I've had this as well. The timer can be barely enough to reach 4 boxes sometimes, and one minor deviation or one interrupted box can be certain death. 30 seconds doesn’t give you all that much leeway here. If 2:30 is barely enough to remove the trap, 3:00 isn't going to allow you to do anything meaningful, because there's still the risk of not acheiving an optimal path between boxes if you happen to cross paths with the killer.
People are acting like those 30 seconds allow the survivor to do a gen before their head explodes, but in reality you still can't risk not going straight for a box. It only takes you running into the killer between boxes for you to be a real risk.
That said, I do think increasing the timer by 30 seconds is the lazy option. I don't think it's a good change, it's just not a bad change.
Personally, instead of increasing the timer, I would have had the timer pause while working on a box. This would still have the effect of increasing the timer by an average of 36 seconds, but it would be relative to the number of searches, so that a 2 search trap is still threatening, but a 4 search trap isn't almost certain death.
Moreover, it would mean that an interrupted search isn't drastically increasing the lethality of the trap, and therefore can't be used to force a head pop. Chasing a survivor off a box would still increase the slowdown potential, as that's another box to search, another 12 seconds plus travel time. It just wouldn't be such a scummy play and result in certain death with nothing the survivor can do about it in any way.
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I don't think I've ever had a Pig game where I haven't used all my traps.
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It's a buff. You still get the slowdown from the traps and a pretty good buff to her ambush. The only Pig's this nerfs are those who spend the game just tunnel 1 survivor until their head pops and then the rest all escape.
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Its so sad. They seem to severely lack understanding of how to balance these kind of powers.
Im just gonna post this here again:
Best form of nerf to RBT:
- survivors cannot die to the timer running out while searching a jigsaw box
- survivors are not interrupted by screaming while searching a jigsaw box
Nothing more is needed. These nerfs would be in line with the buffs she is getting. The nerfs proposed in the notes are overkill.
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Says the person having an absolute meltdown over being somewhat less likely to RNG into freebie kills.
Survivors aren't getting handholding with this change. Pig is losing hers.
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should always have been a thing. you do something in game, you get a single rocket launcher. insta downs, area of effect, single shot. breaks walls and gens
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They are just pretending to buff Pig, because her kill rate is 1% higher than their expectation.
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I want to write another dossier about this attitude of "This hurts Pigs who tunnel for head pops", but I've described my issues with the RBT change I think well in other threads.
Pig's RBT gameplay is more than just "Head trapped survivor isnt doing gens". There is a greater time management skill here than just that simply reductive way of looking at it. More time on her traps is more time for everything, and all those decisions regarding those breakpoints just got a lot easier to manage. E.g. 24s to self heal on an active trap is now perfectly safe.
The general consensus among the Pig mains I know is yes, you've successfully nerfed the Pigs who tunnel for head pops. However you've also taken a big chunk of pressure out of chase Pig players as well... and while her chase at base is better, it's not as good as the current chase Pig build who to remind you DOESN'T HAVE THE RBT NERF YET.
So yeah... you got rid of the nasty styles of play... but you haven't suddenly made her a strong chase killer, she is still lacklustre (as she should be for a stealth slowdown killer).
Onryo basically needs Fingernails to function. Without it you are nothing. I get the feeling Workshop Grease is gonna be the same for Pig.
Be honest with yourself, with these changes, do you honestly think Pig is gonna compete with the likes of Pyramid Head, Huntress, Chucky or Alien? I somehow doubt it.
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Do people really not understand that Pig’s traps are for slowdown—not a guaranteed pseudo-mori? You should not chase survivors with traps on their head. The traps are *slow down* that do the work *for* you. You do not need to pressure survivors wearing the traps because the trap IS pressure. Stop working against your own power.
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You're claiming that all the gens are done before you can use the traps? I feel like you should be CELEBRATING that they're buffing the chase part of her power then. You'll be able to get 4 downs now before 5 gens are done on a killer with built in slowdown...
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That's too weak. A survivor hit by the rocker launcher immediately gets the game erased from their hard drive and their character explodes into a puddle.
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Thats the point though. Pig currently has a weak chase and therefore is dependent on strong slowdown or even kills from the traps to win.
This will not change though. The buffs are not enough by a long shot to warrant the nerfs. The Pig will still lose 3 gens to pre dropping or survivors leaving the loop to get her first trap placed. However, this trap is now severely less threatening. Overall, shes just worse.
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You are not working against your power, your useing it. I use the information of what rng i have and play around that to maybe get a kill without hooking. Thats using the killers power. If the sole utility of the traps is slowdown, they would not be able to kill you. The simple debuff of: "you cant work on gens while having a trap" would be enough.
However, the traps can kill you. They should remain to have that trait.
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Sometimes the killer is arround gens and even if you would not have a trap you would not be able to do gen.
They are many situation where the traps does not slow down the game.
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