Let's Discuss the "Adrenawin" Meta
As of right now, there's only two ways to even counter this when playing as Killer:
1) NOED (which causes survivors to bawwwww, and say that killers are boosted and shouldn't be rewarded for doing poorly early game, mid game)
2) The Plague (assuming you can get three/four survivors into broken state as soon as gates power, but even then, it doesn't matter because of fountain insta-heals)
I will say this. It's funny it took survivors this long to realize how powerful adrenaline was. Was it streamers who popularized its usage so now everyone runs it? I'm a rank one killer, and 55% of my games I see at least three survivors all running this meta.
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Even tho I sometimes get kills after gens are done, I feel like I lost if I didn't kill most of the survivors.
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But seriously. If you use Adrenaline, don't ######### that I run NOED.
Both ONLY see play during the end game
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Adrenaline was always a meta perk. It's just become more powerful now that healing takes a long time if you don't run a healing build, which is out of the question because it doesn't extend chases and thus allow for more teabagging.
So long as survivors run Adrenaline, you should run NOED. It is the only real counter.
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What's wrong with adrenaline or noed?
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I don't like Noed. I don't consider it op but I see it as too risky. Ruin is enough. Don't want to waste two perk slots on hex. Might as well play perkless then.
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Yep.
I say we need a perk that applies the broken status after unhook for 90/120/150 seconds and unhooking takes longer. That'll teach 'em.
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It's not that it's become more powerful. It's that it's become more valuable because with increased healing times, the focus becomes on rush gens, unhook and don't heal. Finish last gen = your heal + then escape.
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Let's not forgot it literally carves out a big "######### you" to the walking meme, Sharphand Joe.
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Which you then counter with NOED. Survivors will cry about it, but it's their fault. If they ran healing perks, and Dark Sense instead of Adrenaline, they'd escape every time once they get to the endgame, even against NOED, except perhaps against Remember Me.
Yeah, Adrenaline is the reason that Freddy needs Remember Me in order to have any endgame potential. NOED alone is almost worthless on him.
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Yeah I've always prioritized healing and it takes forever now. Longer with all the Butchers around. And sometimes (Legion) it isn't worth healing at all, which also renders my build obsolete. I don't use Adrenaline since it tends to piss people off, which is why I also stopped Self Care and die a lot more now. Oh well.
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Just had a 3-man SWF with DS, Adrenaline, SC, and a random for their fourth. Only one was up before the last gen was done. He was injured, but got his boost. I had thought ahead and trapped both gates. THe one solo lands in the trap, I down Mr. Adrenaline, 4k.
One out of 10 users of Adrenaline actually escape the chase. I can't remember the last time I ran NOED. Sometimes people escape, sometimes they all die before a gen is done. There is no uber meta, just good players that can use skills better than others.
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If you stack Self Care and Botany Knowledge you can have decent healing times. You could also run Bond, perhaps with Iron Will, so that being wounded isn't so bad and you can easily find people to heal you, or people to heal if you're running Botany Knowledge or have We'll Make It active. But of course, if you run a healing build you'll get put up against a Legion, just like you always get a Doctor or Freddy when you commit to a stealth build. Maybe that's why Adrenaline is so popular.
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I used since release adrenalin, best perk ever and it took me a week or so to realize it.
The true reason why it got so popular lately is the healing speed nerf, people are pissed and bored to hold M1, especially against sloppy butcher and Thana players, but also the release of Legion made healing a huge waste of time.
All together -> F selfcare, adrenalin ftw.
Basically killer who wanted healing nerfed shot themselves, the genrush is even worse now.
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The simple issue is the fact survivors perk pool is so small believe it or not even survivors are tired of running the same perks in my opinion they just need to buff survivor perks that are not used that often to shape a new meta nerfing everything is not going to fix the problem its just going to limit the meta even more.
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Survivors have plenty of good perks, they just choose not to use them. Even something like Lightweight can be used to outright escape from killers or avoid being chased at all by running away as soon as you know they're coming. How often do you see Iron Will, one of the strongest perks against some of the strongest killers?
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If they added bp rewards to crap perks, survivors would run them more often. Case in point, WGLF, and PTS. Though I play less survivor with each chapter, I can't remember the last time I ran Adrenaline, or even an exhaustion perk. I usually run bp perks, with plunder/BK/DWM/Alert/Spine Chill/Kindred/Breakdown/Ace in the Hole (usually with Plunder). I can't stand the meta perks as a player, but admit they give you the best chance at survival.
That is the problem. We call them Meta, but in reality, they are a players best chance to survive a match. Therein lies the problem. There are so many survivor perks that are useless. There are also several killer perks that are useless. Monstrous shrine anyone?
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Don't #########, us killers wanted a nerf to healing speed and now it's bit us in the arse. If Self Care gets a buff or its changes are reverted, then MAYBE it might kill Adrenaline.
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That is the thing. Killers will always ######### about the next thing that services survivors well - nerf pallets, nerf exhaustion perks, nerf healing, nerf DS, now adrenaline is next up, after that probably circle back to medkits, the list will go on. Then when everything is nerfed killers can take pride in knowing their role is so brain dead easy to do that any mouth breather can 4k.
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I don't think anyone is complaining about the power of Adrenaline, except for Freddy players. Killers are complaining that survivors are forcing them to run NOED or forfeit the endgame, and then survivors whine about NOED.
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Adrenaline works only late game. Fact
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Name meta survivor perks one by one.
Also lightweight is not a meta survivor perk for a reason its not good even remotely making that statement is un true the fact behavior continues to limit meta survivor perks while buffing killer perks is not going to fix the game its just going to make people not want to play survivor this whole survivors can go perkless so therefore they dont need perks i mean nurse,billy,huntress can go perkless and still dominate does that mean they need a nerf as well not saying they do aside from nurse but yeah continue to think survivors have a lot of meta perks ill wait while you list the meta off.
When it comes down to it this is survivor meta
Adrenaline
Sprint burst
Dead hard
Balanced
Lithe(Is okay wouldnt call it meta maybe next patch though)
Borrowed Time
Unbreakable
Hope
Self care(Sucks not worth running legit just a time waster now) ALSO THIS IS PART OF THE ISSUE self care was more used than Adrenaline and now that self care is dead no one wants to use it and just would rather use Adrenaline
DS(next patch is gone)
We'll make it
Theres probably more but you get the point the pool is way to small compared to the killer you can run a lot of perks a lot more than survivor like heres an idea buff the unused perks while nerfing the meta thats what almost everygame that has a meta does but for some reason behavior is to scared to shift the meta to hard and clearly dont care about buffing unused survivor perks anytime soon. Like its simple to fix the meta you take the meta perks and nerf them while buffing the unused perks look at any other game that has a serious meta its just how metas work.
Like dont get me wrong i play both sides equally and have been rank 1 both sides every rank reset but it still does not change the fact behavior is one side meta nerfing and ignoring perks that have potential to be survivor meta like Boil over prime example of a perk everyone was hyped for and than it released and everyone was like wow what a joke.
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Since some survivor mains complain that NOED would reward bad killers, should we start saying that Adrenaline rewards bad survivors?
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How? Adrenaline only activates when the survivors complete their objective. You'll have more luck comparing Devour Hope to it.
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The only reason Adrenaline is used is because of the healing nerfs and the Sloppy Butcher buff. I'm not going to waste my time healing when i know i can use my stealth and chase skills to run out the clock and escape with Adrenaline.
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@Mc_Harty It's a joke mate. I don't think Adrenaline rewards bad survs and I don't think NOED rewards bad killers.
Off-topic: Please @ tag people if you want to let them know that you replied to them. Quotes don't give notifications anymore.
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^This, and certain killers mains got what they wanted and now it's bitten them hard in the ass. Now to use some of the same logic these same killer mains use for NOED when they say cleanse the totems.
Adrenaline can be removed by KILLING THE SURVIVOR, imagine that by doing your objective you remove adrenaline from the game for that survivor. Dead survivor = no Adrenaline once all 5 gens are done.
It's also affected by the exhaustion nerf so they can't just SB/DH after it activates which means if you do your objective you don't have to worry about that on those you kill.
@NoShinyPony This isn't directed at you since you're not one of those killer mains.
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Been using Adrenaline since Day 1. Has been and will continue to be the best Survivor perk in the game.
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@NoShinyPony Curious how you got to this logical leap. Adrenaline rewards a player for Surviving until the 5th generator is powered.
NOED is activated when the Survivors have completed their objective, and activates on Survivors who you have NOT completed your objective on. The objective being sacrificing.
I really don’t care about game balance anymore, but this logical leap always intrigued me.
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Also: Comparing NOED to Adrenaline is...meh.
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Adrenaline allows me to build without Self Care and have a little bit more fun overall.
It's not OP considering you need to be injured and have 5 generators be completed to have the full conditions met.
And that's why it's not overpowered, it has conditions.
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It's popular because:
1) It's universally accessible (It's a Meg perk, a default survivor)
2) Anti-heal Killer meta (Sloppy Butcher, Nurse's Calling)
3) Limited counter play (Only NOED, The Plague's broken mechanic prevent the heal or make the heal pointless)
I mean, there's no reason someone will take Hope over Adrenaline. Just saying.
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People often underestimate how amazing Iron Will is as a survivor perk. Its usefulness ranges from moderately to extremely useful depending on the map. Being a rank 1 killer, if you break my line of sight and urban evasion around a complicated jungle gym (Suffocation Pit), you might actually escape me if I'm playing a killer with low movement speed, or I might go look for someone else rather than waste time searching.
It's usefulness will also increase after next patch, which decreases survivor sounds for survivors hidden inside lockers.
I do like that they are making lockers more useful. In previous patches, only noobs would use them, or good players would use them for locker jukes.
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I would say that it's not that because it's limited, it's because it's increasingly difficult to make powerful survivor perks that are better than what we already have. Until BHVR implements a different end game, there's not a whole lot of game mechanics that you can tweak with perks.
Do keep in mind. This is an asymmetrical game. You cannot make individual survivors more powerful than the Killer. Therefore, you cannot have perks that make you a one-man-army. Above all else, time is the currency of strength in this game. Anything that increases chase durations, decreases healing/repair times, or increases the time the killer spends searching for their next chase is powerful for survivors.
Anything that does the opposite is strong for killers.
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Logical fallacy my friend.
Noed -> rewards the "failure" of killing survivors till the end.
Adrenalin -> rewards the success to stay alive till the end.
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The Legion was what forced survivors to counter a new mechanic, deep wounds. Deep wounds, I think, just forced survivors to adapt, so they finally figured out what a lot of other survivors had already learned: "Oh hey, if I don't bother healing and just rush gens I can end games faster... Huh!"
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Very true. Survivors have next to nothing in the way of BP gain perks. Killers have twice as many.
Also, yeah. Monstrous Shrine is complete garbage. Even if it affected all hooks, it would still be complete garbage.
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Yeah, Legion was like the final kick in the head of the last survivor to realize the no healing genrush meta. Ofc, trash survivors who can't stealth and can't run the killer will fail hard or keep using selfcare.
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@altruistic @HavelmomDaS1 Guys, come on, for real now. It's such an obvious joke.
And why I think NOED doesn't reward bad killers? Because not one single person has to die because of NOED, as long as the survivors play well. It's just a hex after all. A killer with insta-down ability can apply much more pressure than a shiny totem. Additionally, the survivors must have failed in cleansing all the totems for NOED to get activated in the first place. Seriously, if a killer gets 2 or 3 additional kills because of NOED, the survivors must have played so bad that they deservingly lose.
NOED and Adrenaline are both fine.
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I think you're close, but not quite there. I'm not complaining about Adrenaline being strong. I'm complaining of the lack of viable options to counter it. It completely negates any momentum a killer has going, any time saved, once end game starts.
If you're not running NOED, if survivors aren't broken... if you're not a high-mobility killer (Nurse/Billy)… if you don't have an instant down... You're pretty much only semi-guaranteed one kill once the end game starts if 3 or 4 survivors have adrenaline.
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Or Noed->Rewards the failure of survivors for not cleansing totems.
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I was only breaking down the core of adrenalin and noed because you compared them. I personally don't have really a big issue with both perks
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If 3 or 4 survivors are alive endgame something has already gone very wrong for you as a killer. I run adrenaline, it's useful in maybe 10% of game because I'm either dead, or not injured and safe end game. In my 500 hours of DbD (yes I know it's not that much) I've seen Adrenaline pop on 4 survivors endgame once guess which killer it was that everyone decided not to heal against?
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NOED can be countered so... I dont get how it's a problem...
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Honestly, comparing NOED to Adrenaline is not really working.
If a Killer does not manage to get any Kills during the game, he is not at the Rank he should be. If he gets a Kill because of NOED, this might help him to not depip. If he gets even more Kills because of NOED (which happens, because Survivors try to get the hooked person while NOED is still active), he might actually pip. Only because of NOED.
When a Survivor is not good enough at looping etc., he will most likely not get into the use of Adrenaline. This Survivor should be dead before he even has the chance to activate Adrenaline.
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How is that possible if the Thanatophobia buff didnt make It live?
Let it go live and we'll see how many survivors make It to the endgame by just rushing and not healing.
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The first kill in your example could generously be attributed to NOED, but anything else is due to survivor stupidity, period. And if survivors play like that, then they shouldn't be at that rank either.
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Why make another perk similar to deliverance? If you can’t win with noed something is wrong. Adrenaline is fine it requires you to be injured and all gens need to be completed lol.
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I wouldnt have any problem with the Thanatophobia-Buff. I am running We Will Make It for ages, and with almost all Killers it should not be a problem. However, it is a problem with Legion, and therefore I am quite happy that it did not go live.
Exactly what I said, thank you for stating the obvious: The Killer did nothing good at this point.
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If gen speeds were addressed, I could see the idea of NOED being too powerful, but as it is right now it's the only thing that makes survivors think about doing something other than gens just long enough to actually be able to get something going as killer.
As for Adrenaline, I've stated before it's the best survivor perk period. Better than DS, better than exhaustion perks, better than Borrowed Time, Distortion, Self-Care, etc. With it, you have absolutely no reason to heal instead of doing gens (unless you have like 4 or 5 gens left) and when you finish all the gens, the killer's pressure is completely gone (especially if multiple people run it (which is very likely)). The haste effect is perfectly fine and balanced, but instant health state heal and waking up is not okay at all.
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