BHVR just hates survivors atp
every patch is just nerf surv, buff killer, nerf surv, buff killer… it’s either that or anytime survivor get new perks the only decent ones get nerfed into the ground like a week after launch meanwhile overpowered killer perks get left as is for months and months on end. it’s so disappointing. ftp buckle up is inevitably getting nerfed bc god forbid survivors have anything to assist them in surviving. adren is gonna be on the list next probably meanwhile there’s perks like devour hope or no ed, or honestly even any insta down perk. i’ve always heard people say “survs have their hands held” but if im being frank it’s quite the opposite. huntress does not need 7 hatchets.
while you guys are at it you should make it so survivors spawn in the trial injured and add 60 seconds to gen completion, also remove fast vaults and nerf resilience. resi is too op.
anyway ima spend my money on siege instead cos im over dbd not caring about the survivor experience.
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they really do! i guess it’s because this foruns have too much killer mains who will gaslight anyone who tries to discuss the problems survivors are having with the state of the game
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and unfortunately they are nerfing adrenaline and ftp + bu. survivors dont have anything fun or even useful anymore
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I don't think they hate survivors but they just so scared to buff survivors or give anything useful. Why? Because then there is countless posts about them.
Even mid perks like Counterforce, Exponential called op when they were on PTB lol. And then as you see, nobody used them in live servers because they are just trash perks.
BHVR need to be more brave when it comes to perks. Just release strong perks, if they are really problematic, you can nerf them later.
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i feel u are correct. that’s how the nerf to the anti camp came about bc “killer didn’t have enough time to do anything” it’s so tiresome and now the anti camp is trash. it’s always the same
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If you choose to ignore every time survivors did get buffed, then sure survivors never get buffed and only get nerfed.
Not even like this patch is nerfing survivors either since mangled is getting nerfed so healing is buffed indirectly.
You just need to chill out and realize this is 1 patch out of many to come.
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I don't think they're too scared. They probably just have a steady enough stream of new survivors coming in that they're not fussed about retaining the ones they have.
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If you’re into Souls-Like games,
Lies of P is freaking Awesome!!!
Highly recommend checking it out
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3 gen changes after survivors were complaining about it.
Mangled getting nerfed.
DS on the roadmap for buffs after survivors have been askign about it.
UW on the nerfing block despite not even being in the top 10 perks after survivors complaining about it.
"Devs don't care about survivors"
Sure.
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You’ve described Made for This, Circle of Healing, Dead Hard, and countless other perks.
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to be honest at this point just accept reality, Killers will get even stronger, if you think they are strong now, just you wait lol, some day a killer that will surpass nurse will born. billy and blight are right behind her, and huntress is joining the club of the S tiers as well, i would arguably put spirit on S tier as well if u truly have some insane hearing and sound.
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I don't know how many years you haven't played dbd, but in a little over a year survivors have gained the ability to see what their allies are doing with the HUD, Base Kit BT, hook grab removal, Anti face camp & Gen defense System and 3gen countermeasure system. These are benefits even if you do not possess the perk.
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all my friends quit because of it since they only played survivor and they ain't coming back either. I hope one day they will try to make survivor more fun before everyone else quits.
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You guys are somewhat right, but I think its more or less the accumulated detritus of years of "survivor handholding". During the leadup to 6.1 in June 2022, survivors power was at an all-time hight, they were utter fearless, could mock the killer at every opportunity, do everything they want right in front of the killer and due to multiple layers of 2nd chance perks and other mechanics live to tell the tale and, most important, 4 guys twerk at the exit gates.
Since then much has changed and while I claimed for the longest time that survivor were always the power role, I am inclined to see that BHVR has got their bearing and brought the fear of the killer back into the game, at least partial. God loopers still exist, and they are so perfect in their execution that they are neight impossible to catch during normal gameplay. But MMR normally sees to it that such god loopers are paired with potatoe loopers and if the killer can identify this fast enough, the god loopers won't affect the game too much.
Now I think the biggest problem is that BHVR never officially determined what is a win or loss, while inofficially 3+ kills are seen as a killer win, 3+ escape a survivor win, with everything in between a draw. And everyone knows that its much easier to juggle 3 survivors contra 4, which lead to the raise of tunneling that we see these days.
BHVR has done nothing, literally NOTHING, to incentivice killers to spread hooks and NOT kill a survivor asap. Something like old BBQs BP bonus as basekit could help, with the added conditon that the bonus only increase if all survivors are still alive, thus postponing the tunneling of the first survivor till at least 3 different survivors are hooked, but the basegame punishes killers by playing "fair". Keeping a survivor on deathhook alive and not finish them off will alway come back to bite them, as a survivor on deathhook can just as well hold M1 on a gen.
I don't know how BHVR can tackle this systems, but they should devise a system that doesn't shot killers in the foot by keeping the survivors alive and spreading hooks, but somehow rewards them. Increasing gen time would not be fun, but maybe some "Entity excited" system: by spreading hooks and increasing "despair and fear" the killer gets shown the auras of survivors not on deathhook yet. The game is always a race against the clock.
But back to survivors perks: the tragedy of modern DBD is that survivors are very strong at basekit. If a survivor is a god looper, they can loop the killer nearly indefinitely by running tiles perfectly even without perks. The game is somewhat balanced around the fact that a survivor will inevitable go down evntually, but thats not true for very good loopers. So every single perk that helped in this regard was okay with the mid-skilled survivors and helped them extend a chase a little bit longer or get to another tile, but it made playing god-loopers a chore and nearly impossible. DH, MFT, FTP+BuckleUP all made playing killer absolutely misserable, because you basically had no chance to ever catch a really good survivor, unless you threw the game and went for Bloodlust 3 TWICE.
MFT was the most fun survivors had in the last couple of years, because it was an exciting perk that allowed to extend chases and just get to that next pallet, but it was fundamentally breaking the ballence and thus is felt extremely punishing and bitter for survivors, when it was nerfed into oblivion and taken away. I really don't have a solution, but nearly everything that gives survivors a tangible leg up in a chase has the potential to utterly break the game. Maybe we need perks that modify and change certain base mechanics, but always leave some room for the killer to catch up. Or create more diversions; that perk that lets you throw pebbles or generate a fake notification at a locker all are good ideas, but never work as effective as others perks, which is a shame; I think clever games and mindgames like this should be more prevalent then just getting a bonus to looping. I could also see a bird charmer perk that allows the survivor to startle bids accross the map, for example.
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Im currently playing Elden ring. Almost at 100% first playthrough. What an amazing game!
I want to check Lies of P out after that.
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What build are you playing with?
I was thinking about new build to try
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Technically, in the latest patch, survivor get 3 "buff"
Quick Gambit
Gen kicking is limited at 8 kick max
and now mangled
there's some buff... Not big one indeed, but there's some
edit: it's not really 8 kick, but 8 "regression event", my bad
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Honestly, i was not going for anything in particular and just played for the first 80hours. Then Malenia became a brick wall and i changed my strategy. Pushed all those levels into vigor and dex. Then i beat her with a +10 Halo-sithe. Took a good amount of time, but was extremely satisfying. Then i got her sword and since then im using that. Learning movesets and punishing at the right time feels amazing. Favourite bosses are currently Malenia (Phase1 NOT 2), Maliketh (whole fight), Draconic Tree sentinel and definitely Godfrey.
No magic (because i just didnt understand how to use it lol)
Otherwise, my loadout is this:
R1: Hand of Malenia
R2: Halo - sithe
R3: Eleonora´s poleblade
L: completely empty
Talismans: rotten winged insignia, shard of Alexander, Dragoncrest greatshield, Carian filigreed crest
Quick equipment: Flasks and mixture
Mixture: opaline bubble tear + cerulean hidden tear (should propably change the second tear, it rarely comes into use)
Im now sitting at the final boss. Seems fun so far. Game has been a blast.
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Im sorry, i was asked.
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btw, I did write separate replies to you guys, but both my replies mysteriously disappeared (not so mysteriously tho, been happening since the forums went wonky that one day last week😔). So not sure if you even got ‘em or not.
Anyway, forgot what I wrote verbatim n not typing it all out again. Just going to copy, paste n log my posts elsewhere from now on so I can repost ‘em; since these sneaky forums are making them vanish.
I got great info on Reddit from players who are experts at these games (and from others who were surprised women enjoy Souls-Like titles lol).
Lies of P is like a great big hug for anyone who’s been craving a Bloodborne sequel, and if you both have a go at it, I totally believe you’re really gonna enjoy it!
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What makes me sad is how little BP we get for how much we do as survivors :(
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It really varies. Some games I'll get like 15k, other games I'll have more than the killer as the only survivor to...survive.
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Same! It's so random, sometimes I loop the killer for the whole match and I get nothing haha but like you said, if I'm the last one to survive, sometimes I can get more
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we are peasants fr ;/ i play rainbow6seige now its a lot more fun than being left to die on a floor for 4 minutes.
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I feel like the big difference is surviving. So much of a survivor's possible point gain is gotten right at the end when you escape. Killers point gain though isn't nearly focused on getting the kill. Killers can 2 hook everyone and still get decent points with 0 kills.
If they lower the points you get for escaping, but increase point gain for other stuff to counteract, point gain should feel abit more consistent.
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What survivor nerf? Mangled is now temporary basekit bt. Anti camp mechanic. All are good changes that are better for the game. 3 genning is limited.
So what nerf.
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Yeah, felt like I was going crazy w the posts disappearing.
haha fr, I’m not that great at them, but just really enjoy ‘em so much!
I do agree, these games don’t offer a casual mode or level of difficulty selection, n that kinda sucks. I chose Sweeper n spent a few hours just ‘stargazer farming’ a huge amount of ergo; Then leveled up Motivity, Vitality n Capacity to 20 and Technique n Advance after, little by little. By the time I reached Cathedral boss (which was freaking awesome looking, love the colors! Got stoked thinking that I beat it… then came its second form lol) my M, V, & C were all LV25, so it was much easier to battle. Plus, I was summoning a Specter for all the fights to help, or I probz wouldn’t’ve been making it past many of them.
The toughest experience for me was not being able to save my progress in a log, and then go back to a certain part if I had messed sth up. That’s always super tricky to play around. Like, every decision you make is recorded and irreversible.
Sorry it wasn’t the best experience for ya. Maybz you’ll give it another go sometime n have a better vibe w it, hopefully.
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3 gen changes were better for killer 99% of the time unless your gameplan as killer is to just infinitely kick gens?
You listed 2 POTENTIAL changes that could be good for survivor. Would you like me to list the amount of changes good for killers recently? I fear that might be a neverending list.
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Haha I came on this post, read it and as soon as I read "killers gaslight when survivors make a statement" the killers begin to gaslight the issue, so it is already worthless to even discuss it even further.
And when you killers really think it is comparable what they did till now for the survivors with all the insane buffs they did on killer side then it is no wonder why you wont see the issue, and no wonder the most survivor mains stop playing DBD.
This game is no fun to play really as survivor. Sure sometimes there is a good or nice killer but 99% of the times it is just a bad killer, who use bad techniques to win and who has a growing advantage due to all the buffs. And yet you killers come and try to defend this with the few not really buffs since they do not help at all, because these are buffs as well? What a joke.
If you ever wonder why it got to this state in the game it is you killers who just jump in and destroy the critic, because you do not see that is not even close to be equalized. The killers ARE getting buff after buff after buff. While the survivors need to wait till they maybe will get something to even keep up. But most of the times it is worthless since 99% just play with such dirty tactics that escaping nowadays just is near impossible.
Some things we need to change. The most important is an anti-slugging change, since it is out of hand. The hatch should not be closable by the killer (Or at least the killer should have much more trouble to find it, since he is way faster and in cases of these who can just flash themselves over the map they will find it seconds after it appears.) Also the wiggeling should be changed back it is almost impossible to wiggle free especially with the killer grab perk.
But since the next gaslighting killer will tell us, why it is not good for the poor killer who has it that hard in the game, that he need to get buffs all the time, will rip my argument apart it was a waste of time to even write it.
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Whether it's better for killers in general or not is still being debated. But the point was the change was made for survivors. Killers got something in return because they kind of needed to sure, but it was made for survivors. Mangled nerf was also for survivors.
The devs don't "not care about survivors" otherwise that would not have even happened nor would the future potential benefits even be planned. FTP+BU is also still running around and they just announced changes for Wicked on the PTB also for survivors. STBFL also got nerfed recently, Pig got changed to get away from her unfun for survivors gameplay and there's more but you can just go look at the patch notes yourself if you want a full list.
Killers have been getting a bit more lately, survivors have been getting more for years and years until recently. Point being, the devs aren't ignoring survivors or killers for that matter.
One side will usually get a bit more, it's not going to be 50/50 every single patch or even most of them.
Saying the devs don't care about or hate survivors while they're actively doing things for survivors is just not correct unless you're choosing to ignore their work.
Post edited by MrPenguin on3 -
It's no secret that this game is geared towards casual players, but I get sick every time I come across a situation where people who don't understand the game spew hate at people who do.
Something happened that symbolized everything. The Lights Out event was very frustrating for many casual survivor mains.
On the contrary, many advanced survivors praised it as a very challenging trial mode.
What did the killer main player do? They mainly enjoyed this event as "survivors". This fact dictates that many survivor mains are casual players, and many killer mains are advanced players. There are exceptions, but this is generally true.
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They care about both sides equally.
The game needs both sides to function, so BHVR favouring one side over the other makes zero logical sense. I’m sure they’ve publicly said that they do not favour one side over the other.
I’ve noticed that whenever significant changes happen to one side over the other, there’s always “BHVR don’t care about (X)” posts.
It’s an asymmetrical game. This thing is never going to be fully balanced and the devs have shown again and again that they do listen. Do I agree with all of their balancing decisions? No, but I appreciate the effort. If I had it my way, there are things I would have and would not have done, but I’m not a developer.
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I say this as a survivor main: survivors had it good for a long, long time. Killers deserve a much needed buff because for the longest time, survivors had the upper hand. I agree to an extent that the current roadmap feels more killer favoured, but to be fair, last year they put a lot of energy into survivors (the activity hub, base kit endurance, etc). Plus, there are some positive things to look forward to as survivor (mangled nerf, upcoming changes to DS).
This game will never, ever be considered balanced as there’s always a contingency of people who will shout the loudest about changes. Look at DH: it was heavily nerfed back in that big perk overhaul, only to be nerfed again to only activating after hooks, yet some people still complain it’s unbalanced and unfair despite it being in its healthiest and fairest state yet. It’s like each “side” want their own metas protected, whilst the oppositions gets nerfed into the ground.,
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Goes without saying that BHVR doesn't take sides for the roles in the game, the side they take is that of the game overall succeeding so they profit. Although that of course doesn't mean they always make sensible or good decisions.
While survivor gameplay has been fairly stale with few exciting things being released in terms of new toys to play with (with rare but notable exceptions, to be fair) and more perk and item nerfs than buffs, the basic survivor experience has gotten drastically better in the recent few years, which was likely a response to the years of killer improvements that came before them. It took them much longer than it should have, but with the introduction of basekit unhook Endurance, the anti-facecamp and anti-3-gen mechanics as well as the removal of hook grabs, they have addressed some of the most egregious issues survivors have had to deal with. The HUD info has also been a tangible if slight improvement. Hit validation on pallet stuns and Dead Hard is at least something, even if the hit reg system is still essentially entirely killer-sided. The implementation of disconnect penalties and bots to replace disconnected survivors have also had positive effects on the survivor experience, even if disconnects still aren't all too rare and bots far from well-coded.
Worth noting that unhook Endurance has not entirely remedied the issues with tunnelling and that more rebalancing in that regard could well be in order (and at least a Decisive Strike buff is apparently coming), that the anti-facecamp mechanic really has mostly only rid us of literal facecamping and hasn't changed too much about the balance surrounding camping in general (but the removal of hook grabs absolutely has - apart from a few specific killers, I think camping is actually in a decently balanced spot now, even if some more improvements particulalry for solo queue should probably still be made (such as showing the self-unhook meter to all survivors)), and that the anti-3-gen mechanic doesn't solve all of the pertinent issues with 3-genning having really had become a severe grievance with the release of certain killers, perks and maps. Still, things are in a much better spot now for survivors too, there are much fewer grievous gameplay frustrations to deal with.
That said, there are definitely various perplexing decisions that I would not blame people to construe as a sort of malice. Flashlight nerfs out of nowhere, nerfing COH and MFT into obscurity (the only two metagame-changing survivor perks released in years and years), most survivor perk releases being painfully lackluster, years of not addressing Blight's blatantly busted add-ons only to then still not really doing a great job of it when they finally did get around to touching them, Skull Merchant's entire existence lol, the fact that we still can't see the killer's ping, not addressing problematic add-ons such as Pinky Finger and Iridescent Head (both of which even stand to be collaterally buffed next patch), or Mother-Daughter Ring and Dried Cherry Blossom, giving Nurse a lunge range add-on, nerfing DS to begin with, the way they had overbuffed Eruption and recently Billy (although they did address Billy's major issue very quickly, which was the ridiculously short cooldown), ...
There are still quite a few things that could be improved (same for killers of course), but things aren't that rough out there for survivors either. I think one of the first things they should tackle is the matchmaking. I believe MMR can do more for the game than it is currently. But if they really can't find a functioning compromise between queue times and match quality or decide on the level of "competitiveness" they want in an average match of DbD, maybe at least trying out the concept of a casual and competitive queue could be something, with the comp queue having strict and visible MMR, loadout restrictions for SWFs, leaderboards, no map offerings (maybe even a pick-and-ban mechanic for the map), and the casual queue having no or lesser disconnect penalties, lax matchmaking either entirely random or loosely based on emblems or bloodpoints or ranks or whatever, maybe even a killswitch on the top 10 statistically most used perks on the respective sides. Alternatively, we can at least hope that future Game Modifiers will be more fun and exciting and yield more pointedly casual experiences for those fed up with how increasingly competitively-minded the main game has become.
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You started at the perfect time, DLCs just around the corner and it looks absolutely fantastic!
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I play like 90% survivor I don't understand the crying that is going on. Solo survivor have never been better after the changes so you can see what the teammates are doing. Ok "only" 40% escape rate well how is a challange in a game bad? I get that low MMR is bad with teammates that refuse to do gens but overall the game is good for solo survivors while SWFs are super strong as always.
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To be fair, killers dont have any nuclear options anymore like blight's busted addons or omega blink nurse or mother daughter ring spirit. So this is actually some pretty big buffs to survivor since while these killers are strong, they cannot be made brokenly strong.
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I can say I play both, and when I play survivor my hands are sweating but when I play killer I often feel like I should go a bit easy to give them a chance. This is the first pvp game I've ever played where I feel like I should "go easy" at all, killer is probably has a bit too much advantage right now.
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Latest members of Misery Squad rise up!
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I currently play like 70% solo and 30% killer.
Game is chiller than it has ever been for both sides.
I just 'M1 'til done' on my generator unless I am forced to leave and have great success with a 'terrible' build.
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thank you
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A lot of people have trouble looking at things objectively or embracing reality.
It's truly unfortunate T_T
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It’s okay to be wrong sometimes
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Welp it’s time to become a killer main. Playing killer is now easier than ever while playing survivor is just too miserable
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Are they? Adrenaline has been in the game since the very beginning and it’s never been an issue. If they nerf them i’m never playing survivor again
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I have never heard of anyone who made such statements actually turning into a killer and enjoying killer heaven.
On the other hand, the Lights Out event, which was very unpopular with Survivors, was enjoyed by even killer players as Survivors. This tells the whole truth.
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BHVR thinks survivors have more fun when they're being killed than escaping because it fulfills the horror fantasy.
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Killer has always felt a bit boring for me personally which is why i preferred playing survivor. I used to enjoy being chased and helping teammates, but it just isn’t the same anymore. After the huntress changes and everything else i am done playing survivor, at least solo.
I’ve been playing killer recently (mostly legion, slinger, piggy and nurse) and even though im not very experienced at it, i’m getting easy 3-4ks most games against p100 survivors.. i thought playing nurse would be very difficult but turns out it’s not that bad. It’s relatively easy as i dont have to care about loops. At least it feels rewarding to make successful blink attacks and successful hits as slinger, but most of the other killers are very boring and i don’t feel good for getting downs and kills. It feels almost granted. Killer shouldn’t get 4k that often and that easily.
Where did you see killer players enjoying lights out as a survivor? It seems a bit weird since everyone was saying they just got tunneled every match for not having anti tunnel perks. I tried a few games myself hoping it would be fun and more horror-like and then just gave up on it
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Japanese live streamers, mainly killers, were all enjoying Survivor. It is a common understanding internationally that Lights Out has strict specifications for survivor, but in Japan, both Survivor Main and Killer Main enjoyed playing as Survivor because it is a test of one's ability with no mistakes allowed.
Survivor Main is an opportunity to discipline myself for relying on maps and parks, and Killer Main is because I am used to the harsh environment of Killer, where one mistake can lead to collapse, so I can play Survivor in a similar position.
Since it is a simple specification, it is not something that can be played for a long time, but there were many requests for it to be well-adjusted and implemented as a mode.
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I would actually enjoy playing killer more if it felt more challenging and I had to sweat to get a 3 or 4k. I shouldn't have to make up arbitrary rules for myself like I'm not going to tunnel, camp or even regress gens just to make it feel more fair for the survivors.
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