With regards to Invocations, what are you willing to give up? And for what?
Weaving Spiders has you trade your health for gen progress. What else would you want to trade?
Your sanity? Your privacy? Your safety? Your health? I think these are all decent trades. Becoming oblivious and blind, permanently having your aura shown (pls no OoO interaction), becoming exposed, losing a hook state, all hefty offers for the Entity.
But what is worth giving these up for? I struggle to think of what I might want as a survivor, and what I'd be ok with survivors having as a killer in exchange for having to patrol basement more often for occasionally getting an easy hook.
I think we'd mostly like to avoid more Haste, at least anything as strong as MFT was.
Getting a hook state BACK is definitely right out. Respawning broken pallets also sounds miserable.
Exit gate progress, global healing speed, longer adrenaline rushes (such as Overcome), shorter debuff durations all sound reasonable, but I'm not sure they're "waste 2 minutes of your time" reasonable. Being able to protect a boon from getting stomped might be interesting. Calling on the Entity to block a boon totem like Plaything totems/5 stacks of pentimento
What about you?
Comments
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It won't be worth it unless it's brokenly OP.
120 seconds.
In basement.
Only one Survivor can use it.
Weaving Spiders is a horrible perk and I expect the other will be too
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if you do it in early game and complete the ritual. You gain 95sec of Gen that split into 7 Gens. The better way to spend 120sec is to complete 1 Gen by yourself. Not mention the ultimate downside of Broken.
If you do it in late game with 1-2 Gen remaining (3-4 Gen not complete). You gain ~40sec of Gen that split to 3-4 Gens. Why should you spend 120sec for that???
I rather to make you do the ritual for 30sec then gain a Brown toolbox with a BNP.
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as someone said in another thread...
either these will have an actual worth reward, which will suck for killer. and that is bad.
or they will have something not worth it, which will suck for survivor. and that is bad.
don't think you can go big downside and big reward in a way that is good and fair for both sides...
so the invocations should focus on small rewards for small downsides
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While invocations are a workable idea, they really do need to be careful especially when everyone has different ideas of high reward and high cost.
Personally I want one that lights all the totems on the map with the boons I have equipped.
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I will give up two hook stages to be able to transform into a walking bush.
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PROP HUNT! PROP HUNT! PROP HUNT! PROP HUNT! PROP HUNT! PROP HUNT! PROP HUNT!
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That's a really cool idea actually. I'd love to see that in game.
Invocations as a mechanic need some base tweaks though. They should take 90 seconds and not regress so fast (if at all) when cancelled. Getting caught by the killer in the basement is enough of a punishment, it shouldn't roll back all your progress on an invocation as well.
Weaving Spiders should probably be buffed to 20 charges as well.
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The main thing you are giving up as survivor is the same thing you normally give up: time and risk.
Getting caught down in the basement is a huge risk by itself and the time that you spend on this perk could instead be used on a gen. Those are already sizable tradeoffs.
The idea that you could have perks were the players would sacrifice something (permanent aura revealed) for some type of benefit is a possible idea, but that's different than invocations. The main risk proposed by invocations is the basement / time aspect.
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We could touch immovable pillars of DBD, that were once set as hard boundaries. I will try to violate two of the most important such rules in one Invocation, because thats what magick does, it doesn't care about the rules of reality and bends and breaks them at its whim.
"Invocation: Its Alive!" 120s, once this invocation is complete one dead survivor gets resurrected, but there is a price to pay: one already finished gen gets broken again and all gens on the map lose all progress.
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Even if removing Broken, spending 120sec in the basement does not worth the 13.5sec on each Gen.
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I think weaving spiders should give you reduced grunts of pain like no mither
As for other perks. I think an Incantation that allows you to fully heal all surivors at the cost of being broken for the rest of the game could be cool.
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Interesting concept different should bring them back on death hook and healthy.
I don't know how the perk would work during endgame. Maybe it should be canceled
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No we can find a middle ground like an Invocation that's short to cast like 1 min.
But gives like a 8%repair buff for 90s during wich you are broken Bur can heal after the 90s
It's decent effect, temporary and dosent have the potential to be oppressive like boons. "Were" edit
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Exactly. That the first Invocation-Perk is already super-bad is not really promising for the whole mechanic.
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I think part of the invocations "advantage" is the meta-mindgame behind it. The killer hasn't seen a certain survivor all game, are they just hiding or are they completing 95s of gen time, just because the killer is too chicken to lose 30s walking to the shack and checking the basement? What if its a SWF and they all leave gens at 85% completion, to maximise on the impact? A survivor in the basement is vulnerable, but only if they are there. Its the Schrödingers-Survivor dilemma for the killer, with a survivor down there juxtaposed in the two states of hooked and scott-free above; its maddening. They can leave the thus entangled survivor down there or open the box and look themselves, but they risk giving the survivor free progress on gens and wasting a lot of time either way.
With courtesy to you, my honored @C3Tooth , I hope you don't mind that I borrowed one of your designs to illustrate a point.
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There is no "Meta-Mindgame" if the Perk is so bad that it will not be used.
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I really wish we can have a permanent mode. No gens, just hide and loop. Survivors can sabotage each other since it’ll be Everyman for himself. When there is one survivor left, hatch spawns and whoever gets to it first, wins.
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BTW, had you seen this one here? The prob hunt mode on DBD mobile?
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Just spitballing here, but what if instead of repairing 15 charges, it reduces the total amount of charges needed to repair a gen?
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As cool as that'd be, I'm not sure that'd work technically. What if the dead Survivor already left the game? They'd have to be replaced with a bot or something, and I'm not sure that'd be worth it.
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I've seen that one thrown around a lot and I like it a lot. A permanent downside warrants a permanent upside imo
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The trade offs aren't worth it. I'd rather just avoid those 'invocations' altogether since its likely just going to make it easier for killers to win their matches. The only one that might be used is Strength in Shadows honestly.
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Wow! I need this! I need this now! Even if they rotate it as a game mode every other month, it’ll make the game more fresh than the stale bread it is now!
I watched the whole video because I want it so bad. Sucks it’s on mobile. I tried to play it but touch screen controls, along with tiny screen, do not work well with me.
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I like the idea of an invocation that reveals all totems. The price could be blinded or more specific. A smaller invoke time for a perk that’s not too bad and would be more meaningful depending on situations.
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I‘d be down to trade teammates who run this Invocation perk for ones who prefer being useful for two minutes in a match.
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After finding out what "deadline" works for, I didn't think it was possible to make an even more bad perk. But Devs and Weaving Spiders showed me that even worse a perks can be made. I would use "Weaving Spiders" only if my "invocation" eliminated this perk from the game forever🤣
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I like the idea of an invocation that will transfer a completed gen progress to another. A way to break up a tight 3 gen of the killer wants to force one.
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Thats a really cool idea. I like how major the drawback is but I don't like how it effects the entire team. I cant think of anything else of equal value but I also don't feel that one players choice of perk should effect the whole lobby (soloQ pain). But that aside I really love the design philosophy of breaking the rules.
edit: actually I dont think anyone in the lobby would care about losing some gen progress for gaining a whole teammate lol
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absolutely. it came out too safe. at least on ptb...
but watch the pendulum swing and suddenly the perk will become an issue because a buff made it worth it.
that is what was suggested. small downside, small benefit. (also, just run overzealous)
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Maybe not. BHVR didn’t buff the teamwork perks in any meaningful way. We haven’t seen any other perks like them because survivors don’t pick them. They’re a dead mechanic now. Devs also introduced a new boon perk no one uses to try and reignite some interest in boons. But those are also a mechanic survivors ignore these days. Devs don’t really have to do much with Weaving Spiders (or create any other invocation for that matter) because survivors have zero faith in them being useful and will ignore them when they release.
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