How is Sable's Invocation perk useful?
I fail to see the use whatsoever. Even without broken effect it doesn't seem worth.
Best Answer
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120 seconds for 105 charges (start of match, 0 gens completed) is already setting you back. The charge count is high and all but the killer can just kick each gen on patrol and regress them a 3rd instantly. Its never worth using, splitting up on gens is always better.
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Answers
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This. And plus you won't finish all of 7 gens. So 30 charges for 2 gens also wasted. So:
You are using 120 seconds, health state, staying broken for rest of trial to get 75 charges. That's one of the worst perks ever we got.
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There really is no reason to run it at all, kind of like Alan Wake's boon totem. I don't understand why these perks are just made to saturate the shrine of secrets because that's basically their only purpose in the current state. The idea is really nice but it's a killer perk realistically. Territorial Imperative isn't even going to see an increase in usage if the perk remains so obsolete, the Self Care function only at basement (forgot the perk name) is also a little silly considering that Self Care is way more convenient.
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If it was buffed, I could see it as useful for the final 3 generators. If your teammates can pressure them and keep the killer distracted, the perk would have a benefit by adding repair progress even if your teammates are getting run off from the generators. But currently the effect is too weak to justify the time investment.
I like the idea of it working like a BNP but for all generators on the map. That would be worth it, because it would be a benefit that can't be undone by the killer.
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It's Corrupt Intervention without the killer having to equip it.
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It isn't in its PTB state, but it could easily be tweaked to be.
Others have recommended it too, but if it worked like a BNP for all generators, that'd be worth the time investment and penalty, especially with multiple survivors speeding it up.
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Your first mistake is assuming it was ever meant to be useful.
It's simply another low-effort inclusion so they can tell people they try new things. That's all.
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All I know is that it better see a good buff. Otherwise, another new survivor perk mechanic thrown to the garbage at the start line. Just like teamwork perks and to a certain extent, boons as well.
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They were rightly incredibly cautious with it since it could easily be busted but yeah as it stands it's just kinda crap. Which is good, I don't think perks like that should be overly strong as they'd be a nightmare to vs.
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Teamwork perks were never a real mechanic anyway, there was no reason to name them as if they were unique. I think they only did it because BHVR expected people to use them together but then made them too weak to bother with.
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I honestly liked the teamwork mechanic. Only because I usually duo with my friend. But to have 2 people recieve a benefit from healing each other and staying in close proximity at all times was pretty nice to see. Now obviously, it definitely doesn't work well in solo q, but it was cool. And I wished they buffed it.
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It’s a good concept that’s been poorly implemented. At the very least, they should remove the broken penalty. Traveling to the basement, spending time in the basement and losing a health state is enough of a penalty.
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If they adjusted the inability to get back to fully healed to a set time rather than the whole match it would make it a bit more likely to use. The time could be long and then adjustable for the future.
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Realistically, there are only 2 ways I could see it being useful.
Speed up invocation time (massively) or have it lock in all current gen progress, including the added charges from the invocation.
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I'd agree with this. Even if there was a Broken status but only lasts 60 seconds, that would still be preferable. The downside doesn't reflect the upside.
It could potentially be good, and I'm happy to see a new perk type. It just needs to be more rewarding to permanently suffer from the Broken status, or less punishing for a relatively modest gain.
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It’s a failure but I see the vision. I’d rather it suck so we aren’t inundated with threads about how ‘broken’ it is. It’s a shame because they want survivors to run these perks and use these tactics but they don’t incentivize them. Innovation is much easier to create with killers. But yeah instead of these perks and this mechanic survivors won’t use because they’re woefully underpowered the devs could have put the work into something that actually improves the survivor experience.
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Yeah it's not, I've seen it used in PTB and it's just not good whatsoever.
Really needs a rework.
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Why is it good that a perk is a hindrance?
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Honestly because I don't think they should be making more gen speed or gen slowdown perks. They're awful to balance and they only contribute to speeding the game up even more. If they insist on adding more of them then I'd rather they be underwhelming than yet more meta gen perks.
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I think the point was that it's better than having an OP meta warping perk that would end up being really unhealthy for the game. Like original CoH, Overbrine, and such were.
Considering it's tied to gen progress, it has to be balanced very carefully.
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I really like the idea behind it, and think the devs deserve praise for at least thinking outside the box and trying something new. They'll balance it pretty well I'm sure. The bnp idea is good but having it apply to all gens is busted, maybe just 3? Being broken the remainder of the game is excessive, they could wind that back to until hooked.
I'm sure the devs have ideas of their own and will work something out but yea, in it's current state its not ideal
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IMO it's definitely not worth it. In a game where time is valuable, taking yourself out for 2 minutes followed by leaving yourself vulnerable for the rest of the match is not worth the 105s earned that the killer can easily reclaim.
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I've been trying to think of ways it could be used in its current state and it seems pretty weak.
The best idea I could think of was have it for if someone is on death hook they go hide out in the basement and do the invocation. It's not a great use of their time, but better than getting eliminated.
I suspect we'll see someone try and combine it with No Mither, but that doesn't exactly make the combo strong.
Given that the perk has three problems it seems way too disadvantageous to run. You get broken, have to go to the basement, and its overall inefficient. The basement aspect isn't going anywhere, but they either need to buff it (perhaps make it less charges but make it work like BNP) or make the efficiency a better trade off.
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The real use of the perk.
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The idea is that survivors can progress their objective when they aren't sitting on gens. This means the killer is less likely to find them.
However, Weaving Spiders cannot be balanced with this effect. Remove the downside and it's still bad. Turn up the charges by a lot (so it actually becomes useful) and it'll be overpowered.
I blame that on the nature of Invocation perks. The devs clearly wanted these perks to be high effort high reward but this doesn't work. It would be better, if Invocation perks worked more similar to boons and would grant smaller buffs after stepping through an activated circle (with 5-6 circles scattered around the map). This would also allow for more freedom in perk design and could potentially add a much needed strategic component to the survivor gameplay that doesn't rely on communication.
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There's no perk that will make me sit in the basement for two minutes straight.I accept your counter offer.
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It isn't, but any perk with a 120 second wind-up that ends up being overall 'useful' must have an effect powerful enough to net complaints from the killer community. And that's gonna get it nerfed immediately.
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If it worked more like a BNP it might be worth it sometimes. In its current state it's not really useful at all.
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They could make it so that you get 50% progress on each gen and I would still call it a bad perk.
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Let's be real, any match where this perk gets any value whatsoever is going to be complained about instantly. Even in its current, useless form.
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it's mostly useful when 2 gens remain to get additional progress so the last 3 gens are pretty quick to progress. Overall it's a pretty low tier perk because you lose more than you'd ever gain from it.
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There have already been complaints of 'why do killers have to patrol basement now?'.
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