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What happened to this game?
This is actually out of control. I've gotten back into playing dbd, and I still adore the gameplay, but I literally see at least one DC or suicide on hook every game. Not only that, but I know why! Because every single killer I've played against has either proxy camped, slugged, tunneled, etc.
I don't mind either of these strategies, as I play both sides, but it's not being used casually. Most games the killer boldy tunnels the first survivor out and slugs the rest, which kind of sucks to see so common, and it seems this is also encouraging survivors to simply give up each game.
I've played for 30 hours in the past week, and I think I've only had 4 games where the killer tries to go for hooks and the survivors actually try to win the game instead of transforming into a bot.
Both these problems have been in the game for a while, but it was usually an outlier. THIS IS NOW THE NORM.
I just want to play the game I fell in love with years ago :(
Answers
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People are more or less over that. At this point, people are burning out. SoloQ is awful and people need a break. The game is addictive so it's hard to take one, especially if there's an event or a rift.
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To be honest I think a lot of this comes from the switch to MMR. People will play in the manner they perceive is rewarding. What did Emblem based matchmaking reward? Multiple hooks and staying away from hooks once a survivor was hooked. You could not get Iri 1 without 8 to 12 hooks. As well, old BBQ and Chili gave more BP for each different survivor hooked and gives information on far away survivors. Getting BP and getting to Iri One was desirable for many Killers.
What does MMR 'reward'? Kills. I put rewards in quotes because it's not actually a reward but even though it's invisible it's still perceived by many as a prestigious hey, I'm good at this which many players pursue. Before, the hey, I'm good at this status was Iri One which necessitated a lot of hooks.
As well, the old Emblem Iri One had such a wide variety of skill levels that matches were super lop sided but the ability to win against a mismatched group felt good. People like to win enough to feel good but not enough to get boring. Now, with MMR, and especially the tightening of MMR, there are less lop sided matches. The matches are a lot fairer now but are they more fun is a question that should be asked as well.
At it's core any assymetrical game will favour tunneling. As well, camping has also always been very strong in DbD. Since those are the most efficient tactics MMR also forces those tactics more as people want to win enough to feel good. If all that happens is your opponents get tougher and tougher you'll be forced to use more efficient tactics as well to compete. With Emblem the lopsidedness meant sure you'd get stomped with your off meta build but you'd win enough to feel good. How MMR has worked out in reality is you'll either get stomped a lot or hit a plateau where you don't feel like you're improving.
So, to be honest, I say blame MMR for the increase in those tactics. Some people will play just for fun and not care about wins or losses but most will play to improve and feel they're good and getting better. Before, Iri One, BBQ, etc promoted healthier playstyles but, since MMR focuses just on kills, the most efficient and effective tactics will be used more and more.
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Show me your killer levels
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I literally see at least one DC or suicide on hook every game. Not only that, but I know why! Because every single killer I've played against has either proxy camped, slugged, tunneled, etc.
I see this happen often too, but it's not because the killer did any of those things.
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Also, this ridiculous xp event is going on where double xp doesn't kick in until your 5th match. Why not get out of the first 4 consecutive ones asap?
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Because you can already tell what the game's gonna be like early on. If people are going down in the first 2 min and no one is on gens then many players see it's hopeless and just want to get out asap to the next game.
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Honestly, I get frustrated every time I come across a survivor who mistakes a winnable fight as an unwinnable fight, gets angry at being hooked in the first place, and commits suicide. I don't feel that way about survivors who are just immature.
I believe that people who commit suicide should not be defended because there are not only such matches but also many decent survivors, they are too selfish people.
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Maybe in the attempt to balance the game and remove anything deemed "unhealthy" and "No counterplay" from the game, the devs also made games more streamlined so it became easier to predict the outcome of a match. A comeback from a stomp is less likely unless the opposing side severely misplays regardless of role.
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The main reason I see for this is a lack of resilience in those players. Often it's blamed on certain aspects of the game or whatever, but ultimately it happens because - at that moment - the player is annoyed they got caught and quits. It's seen as better to blame the game than admit to not being resilient enough.
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Playing for hooks is much more fun and if everyone escapes who cares?
Nobody.
No pat on the back, no medal and the press aren't desperate to interview you.
People forget it's a video game. A collection of pixels on a screen.
Don't know what the answer is to stop dc and toxic killers/try hards.
Slugging is sometimes required if a survivor runs into a corner where they no there is no hook nearby.
Tunnelling is used as a strategy to help gain an advantage and is sometimes the only way you can stop being stomped.
But neither should be the first option especially at 5 or 4 gens.
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Easy fix for tunneling. Survivors get 40 seconds of endurance after being unhooked (up from 20).
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If that would fix tunneling people would run of the record all games. But endurance is gone right after you are hit of the hook, so is pretty useless.
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I'm playing souls-games....
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💐
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The killer doesn't even need to camp or tunnel my teammates will just throw for absolutely no reason just because they feel like it this killer didn't camp or tunnel it was like a minute into the game at 5 gens so no this isn't a killer problem that's just a scapegoat if you find more than half the killer roster "boring" enough that you'll just dc or self sacrifice on hook then maybe its time to find something different to play
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I keep seeing these posts and i cannot say im having the same experience. Tunneling is maybe a quarter of the games im in, camping is in about half maybe but since the anti-camp changes its really not that strong and slugging - i can recall twice in the last 2 weeks ive seen a killer actively try to slug. Im soloq, and yea, the teammates are a mixed bag (often throwing matches) but I'm noticing a lot of people i play with MYSELF INCLUDED make a heap of mistakes that allow the killer to win. Sorry y'all are having such a terrible experience with these killers, im just lucky i guess
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This is so true. I can't say enough how burnt out I am. I'm basically forcing myself to play a few matches a day to finish the rift eventually. It feels like a chore at this point.
If Sable wasn't coming out I'd most likely take a loooooooooong break. Rift makes me feel like I have to play because most of the stuff in there never comes back and I don't like that.
Luckily I'm past the addiction phase, I just find most matches the same. Rinse repeat. Nerf perks into dog water. The endless cycle.
I don't get annoyed, I don't get frustrated, I just feel very bored.
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So you admit you don't play killer and call it the side of "easy wins" despite it being 6000x more stressful than survivor. I can bring a key and Urban Evasion around for a 100% escape rate, that's an easy win.
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that's because tunneling is too easy if the killer tunnel and you're average around looping not knowing your rotations and getting around rng of maps it isn't worth it resilience won't matter in that situation that player will die quick and not to get to play the game/ learn anything at all whatsoever i play both roles btw and i can say that ain't healthy for the game i wish volatility in the game would go down with Degen strats in general
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- No reward incentive to stay. Survivors win less than killers and typically get significantly less points
- You can get a new match that you will find fun almost instantly
- Quick down in most games is almost a guaranteed win for the killer. The first chase is by far the biggest predictor of who is going to win. The chances of coming back from a bad start are not very high. The loss is guaranteed if the killer chooses to tunnel in this situation.
It's very easy to see why people give up quickly now.
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Suicide is equivalent to a DC, do you admit that you won't criticize the killer if he throws the match or DCs expecting to lose even a little bit?
If you're really into this game, you've probably experienced how many times in Survivor you've at least come back from a match We thought you would lose and won. Yes, as many times as We like.
There is no reason to commit suicide. In most cases, people who commit suicide are just beginners who give up on games they can win under the illusion that they can't win.
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From what I've seen, most players disconnect on the first hook, so I would say in those cases tunnelling is not a factor at all.
Regarding tunnelling, the only thing BHVR could do is remove collision. No matter what incentive or punishment is put in place, tunnelling will always occur, so the only thing to remove it is that way. Even then, it would be questionable how healthy that option would be, because of all the different opinions.
In most cases, safer unhooks when the Killer is further away, followed by retreating to a safe place to heal is the most effective technique. Unhooking whilst a Killer is nearby - unless the situation is desperate (e.g.: about to go to the next stage earlier in a trial) - is asking for it.
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This is just what happens when they keep making the game unfair towards survivors. Just look what they did to billy, its a joke I dont blame anyone for going straight next versus him, SM, Nurse, Blight... And then anyone who tunnels or camps. Its become the worst experience survivor wise.
Up to the devs what they wanna do but its just so unhealthy loading into any of this as survivor anymore. I'd rather take the 100% survivor bonus and go around cleansing totems, opening chests, and saboing blank hooks at this point.
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a lot of ppl kills themself on first hook because they know they can't loop properly/map knowledge with rng map variant and gonna get tunnel and have no chance of even playing the game its really occam razor why play the game when you get hook first when you know that 80ish% it lead to tunnelling/proxy camping its really cause and effect really like i say i play both roles i don''t like ppl killing them self on hook sometimes i go out of my way to message ppl on why they do it it's the answer i keep getting a lot of the times outside of the minority of them that don't want to play vs a specific killer
when you get tunnel you don't get to learn the game as long the game stay volatile like it is right now you'll get ppl that takes the path of least resistance with the highest effective strats that enhanced there gameplay experience witch is tunneling, gen rushing/killing themself on hook because the learning experience with those strats is almost none existent but you get the most benefit out of them it should go out of the game im down to even have a 20 sec extra gen time if it means the the volatility that the game current have is out you can't fix the problem that exist going and doing the same "solutions" it's the definition of madness
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If the killer plays nice, then they have the same experience that the survivors have when they tunnel.
One big flaw of this game is that killers only have the objective to kill. It doesn't matter if get 8 hooks, as long as no survivor is dead, you still got crushed according to the game. The full meta Blight that camps to get one kill is considered a better killer than the perkless Freddy on GoJ thag got 8 hooks but no kills.
If I still gave a crap about my MMR, I would probably play a lot more serious too. It's more fun for me to lose against better players than it is to stomp a bunch of babies.
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So what I think I'm reading is that some of the Survivors you are running into are killing themselves because they believe they are just going to be tunnelled afterwards, which sounds like a self-defeating prophecy that beat them. Without pushing through, they won't ever get better. As you mentioned at the end, doing the same thing over and over again expecting something different is madness. This appears to be what those players are doing.
That's why I say resilience is the main issue, because those players who do give up - based on what those who you have asked have said - are saying they aren't good enough, or history will repeat because it always does (which is a false belief they've determined is always the case). They may also assume it happens more often because it's only those trials they remember ... basically, there are a few mental gymnastics which can create the illusion things are worse than they actually are.
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im gonna disagree personally i know how to handle tunneling for the most part but its not the minority of games that happens i mean tunneling
you can say its a resilience problem im gonna say it's a volatility problem with degen strats ppl can be resilient only to a point there diminishing returns when your trying to learn something and you know you're getting single out in a lots of game because you're the weak link that's the experience the game is as it currently stand
it's not a player problem it's a game problem reduce how to game volatility is you solve a majority of the problem ppl will gets better in general more ppl enjoy the game it's really simple that's why i saied add like 20 sec to gens time remove the volatile issues like tunneling that's in the game it will have more back and forth than the same playstyle that happens a majority of the time in matches
there a saying in general in games from any strife that goes if the game sucks right at the beginning why should i stay for the "promise "that it gets better
the majority will always abide by that ^ and then you know you got a game issue
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It's a good thing that the remaining three survivors are promised escape at the cost of their own death. If one of his friends had been tunneled instead of me, I would encourage him to do his best, and I would complete the repair of the generator as quickly as possible.
And in situations where a body block is effective, I'll stop the killer just to prolong tonnneled sirvivor life a little while he's being tunneled. Even if I'm down depending on the situation. If that's the case, the targets of the tunneling will survive with the help of their friends. Even with SoloQ it is doable. I've experienced it many times. This is probably true of all people with the same ability as me.
There is no reason to justify suicide. Only those who have tried their best will be allowed to complain.
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that only true if you know how to loop like a god i take a recent game with a friend that has a new account on pc we were queued as a swf group of 3 he haven't played in a while because he's working in a crause boat in alaska anyway his main account of on his xbox ways in that match it was his 3rd game on the new account on micheal's map the killer was deadslinger he tunneled my perkless friend to the point that me and my other friend had to go out of our was to body block it didn't matter we would go down the dead slinger chased my perkless friend and tunnel his way to kill him he never hooked me when i was down never hooked my other friend only tunneled the perkless friend
moral of the story what you said is only true if you a god a looping in the game and make almost no mistake with having good perks in the end of the day ill say it again remove volatility add 20 sec of gen time remove tunneling
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that only true if you're a loop god with good perks i had a friend recently made a new account on pc because hes away from home his main account is on xbox so he started fresh
we had a game on micheal map the killer was deadslinger we where a squad of 3 me my perkless friend it was his 3rd game on the account and my other friend the deadslinger goes and proceed to tunnel the living hell of my prekless friend me and my other friend goes out of our way to body block even taking the downs dosent matter he would leave us on the ground not even hooking us still went to tunnel my perkless friend oviously he died the random died we bearly made it out as 2 so no ill dissagree
i dont like ppl killing themself on hook but i won't blame them because its a game problem not a player issues ill said it again remove the volatility from degen strats like tunneling ad 20 sec on gen its gonna be more fun in general
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Why would this be important? What means a low level on killer?
They could be scriming a lot or they could simply spend bloodpoints differently.
A friend of mine has P70+ Slinger - and he does not even play this killer at all.
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In my opinion I find that most of the people who Dc/suicide right at the beginning of the match or cause someone went down to fast just want an easy game.
I personally like a challenge in my games. If I wanted to play a game where you're always winner! I would play Big Riggs or Hello Kitty Island Adventure.
This game is too random, swf, killer, perk loads, mmr, good teams, bad teams and map spawns etc the list goes on and on. You can not expect win every game. I think both sides want easy matches.
Just play the game. The very nature of a game is, you win some and you lose some. Just play the best you can. Not everyone will play the way YOU want them to. Camp, tunnel, tbag, loop etc.
Try not to let the game get to you on either side. If you are not having fun go play something else for awhile.
Just my 2 cents. Remember, win and lose with dignity.
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Firstly, not sure if there was a pasting problem, but there are 2 greyed out lines at the bottom of the post. Was there something you wanted to put in but otherwise didn't happen?
Obviously, I won't be arguing your own personal experience. I can only comment from mine that it's not the same as yours. Perhaps ot's down to time of play/ host server/ MMR/ luck or whatever. From my experience tunnelling is not the majority, but it would be foolish of me to say it doesn't happen. However, I do feel some "perceived" views of tunnelling people cited in game isn't actually tunnelling, but just a viewpoint they had. The difference between what someone sees and believes versus what actually happens won't be aligned.
By volatility, do you mean the unpredictability? Maybe I misinterpret, but by that definition the idea of tunnelling being predictable and common defies that meaning. Please correct me if I'm wrong there. If anything, I'd say you could argue against resilience - not with volatility - but predictability, in which case you can argue the same, predictable builds and tactics would bore others and make people leave the game. That's a harder argument against the case of resilience.
Regardless, I'd still say resilience is a large problem - perhaps larger. Survivors tend to lose often by their team mates giving up in one way or another, whether by dc, throwing, bad plays or whatnot. In the case of bad play, that's just how games go. Everyone makes bad plays, so no huge issue other than practising or a better understanding of the HUD. I do think the training intro sections needs to be more indepth though.
If people keep giving up though, it affects more than just them. If those players were more resilient, it won't just be them that benefits and learns, but so too their team mates.
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Just keep reading
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sry you might get spamed with my wall of texts i have a hard time with the forums lol
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don't mind the grey text boxes i tried to pasted and correct a line and they would not go away new to forum the delete thing was not there
when you say
"However, I do feel some "perceived" views of tunnelling people cited in game isn't actually tunnelling, but just a viewpoint they had. The difference between what someone sees and believes versus what actually happens won't be aligned."
i don't fully disagree there situations when for example some one just got unhook and body block the killer at a doorway with endurance gets hit and then get chased complain they get tunnel some thing as some one that just got unhook and does a gen beside the hooked spot still injured yeah you're gonna get chased so when you say "perceived" that they get tunnel i don't fully disagree there a but tough ill explain what i mean by volatility
what i mean by volatility is this its a gameplay loop that exclude killer/survivors powers/perk that gives expansional explosive reward but is unstable when it fails so for example if you're a survivor and you get hook and tunnel you better be a god at looping/knowing map rng or you're out of luck witch lead to the mindset of i might as well dc/killmyself on hook witch you need to already have experience to play around it and be really good even then it's not that simple and on killer side if you do that tunneling you'll get explosive results skipping the learning curve like knowing how to setup your maps to make it so you have the edge when you're getting in the ladder stage of the game and how to engage how to force pallet witch make it easier for you later witch part of the maps is good for you witch part ain't what there doing ect... when they tunnel they get to skip the entire learning they climb quick and then it leads to when they are facing more competent ppl that's harder to do that against witch leads to the mindset of i might as giveup/dc survivor too strong if they had the right fundamentals oh how to engage the survivors tunneling is still crazy strong i'm oversimplifying here but you get the point this is why i want tunneling out and want a extra 20 sec to gens maybe 20 is too much im not sure but it leads at least ppl on both side learning the game properly and in turned will make more ppl happy of the state of the game at least the ones who wants to learn the proper's habit's because right now this entire learning curved is being skipped with tunneling
i hope this helped i've tried my best to explain i had a previous wall of text that i had accidently deleted had to rewrite this lol
verry sry for the spam getting your way i have a verry hard time with forum with my posts accidently deleting them and some of em getting under review because of edits don't crucify me FeelsBadMan
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This is so true. If someone goes down within a minute of game starting it immediatly feels like a mountain to climb. It depends on the killer, perks, and if survivors are on gens or not. If you have a Blight with pain res and no one is on gens. Forget it lmao
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No perk required. All you need is knowledge of maps. In particular, even short loops that are considered weak on their own can become powerful through mutual effects. Many people don't know that.
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“and people need a break. The game is addictive so it's hard to take one”
this is true, nevertheless, I promise you that the longer you stay away from DBD, the easier it is to hop back on for a new chapter, seasonal event, etc., shake off the rust in a few matches and game it without the desire to play nonstop 40hrs+ in a week again; just playing a few matches in a couple weeks time, and chill from the game in another break.
The addiction fades. Even better, the aggravation from everything about DBD itself, and it’s players, will mostly still be there, and will still cause the desire to not want to play, but your once depleted willpower will have strengthened to where you easily invest your time in another title or area of your life outside the gaming realm, without any urge to slave away in DBD for mixed emotions and minimal reward.
Overall mood and outlook becomes better, and I’ve experienced wonderful improvements to my mental health and even physical health as well, as they both coincide with each other.☺️
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don't mind the grey text boxes i tried to pasted and correct a line and they would not go away new to forum the delete thing was not there
when you say
"However, I do feel some "perceived" views of tunnelling people cited in game isn't actually tunnelling, but just a viewpoint they had. The difference between what someone sees and believes versus what actually happens won't be aligned."
i don't fully disagree there situations when for example some one just got unhook and body block the killer at a doorway with endurance gets hit and then get chased complain they get tunnel some thing as some one that just got unhook and does a gen beside the hooked spot still injured yeah you're gonna get chased so when you say "perceived" that they get tunnel i don't fully disagree there a but tough ill explain what i mean by volatility
what i mean by volatility is this its a gameplay loop that exclude killer/survivors powers/perk that gives expansional explosive reward but is unstable when it fails so for example if you're a survivor and you get hook and tunnel you better be a god at looping/knowing map rng or you're out of luck witch lead to the mindset of i might as well dc/killmyself on hook witch you need to already have experience to play around it and be really good even then it's not that simple and on killer side if you do that tunneling you'll get explosive results skipping the learning curve like knowing how to setup your maps to make it so you have the edge when you're getting in the ladder stage of the game and how to engage how to force pallet witch make it easier for you later witch part of the maps is good for you witch part ain't what there doing ect... when they tunnel they get to skip the entire learning they climb quick and then it leads to when they are facing more competent ppl that's harder to do that against witch leads to the mindset of i might as giveup/dc survivor too strong if they had the right fundamentals oh how to engage the survivors tunneling is still crazy strong i'm oversimplifying here but you get the point this is why i want tunneling out and want a extra 20 sec to gens maybe 20 is too much im not sure but it leads at least ppl on both side learning the game properly and in turned will make more ppl happy of the state of the game at least the ones who wants to learn the proper's habit's because right now this entire learning curved is being skipped with tunneling
i hope this helped i've tried my best to explain i had a previous wall of text that i had accidently deleted had to rewrite this lol
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i had to rewrite a wall of text to answers you but its waiting review so i cant help it
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Only if they remove survivor - killer collision for survivors with endurance. No body blocking from either side. Can't abuse the anti tunnel mechanism nor body block an unhooked survivor.
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This is my experience.
I've played Solo with my own scrubby abilities, I've played with lower level friends, I've played with some pretty insanely good survivors againat some well known streamers, who frankly I'm surprised allow me to play with them...
Across all of them I see camping/tunneling in... maybe 1 in every 4 games? Even of those, there are typically 70% of those cases where I'd consider it pretty justified that the killer uses that tactic, due to the game slipping away rapidly from them, or them having to take an obviously worthwhile option not to.
It is actually quite rare that I see a hard tunnel/camp at 5 gens. It happens on occassion sure, but it's a very very far cry from being every game.
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
You explained it well, thank you. I think I understood "volatile" in a different avenue.
I hear what you're saying, and can see how not being able to learn a map because of circumstances such as an early sacrifice. It still comes down to a mindset though. If someone has been hooked for the second time in a row in a trial and then rescued, that's at least one more chance of learning the map. Anytime they end themselves is a time wasted on learning more. It becomes habitual thereafter, and the mindset weakens as a result.
This is why some people need to push themselves more. The more they die early, the less chance they'll ever get to learn more. Also, if it's what they expect from every game to get tunnelled out, it's definitely best to understand that the game isn't for them - not because of the game itself, nor their ability - but because they don't have the time/ mentality/ fortitude to learn. Besides, why continue a game that causes that stress when there are many games out there to play instead?
Overall, I do still believe the state of mind is the main reason for giving up. Whilst I absolutely feel that tutotials for newer players should be improved, and maybe even some further idea to prevent tunnelling is needed, players have to own their own behaviours and understand failures are steps to improvement and success.
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Used to play daily. Every major patch is some sort of update that restricts the killer more and more. Makes it incredibly frustrating to play m1 killers. I like the added challenge, but they are turning a challenging experience into a frustrating one when screwing over m1 killers constantly. Now I play maybe one day every week. I have been touched killer in at least 2 weeks. Killers are frustrated - they are going to play far more toxic or aggressively if they play, at all.
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Demanding a killer to stop tunneling, or demanding the devs to prevent it, is no different than a killer demanding survivors to break every totem and search every crate before doing all the gens, or demanding the devs to force survivors to do that.
You're entitled, get good.
Yknow what? Let's make it a game mode.
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Of course I struggle. I main an m1 killer and gens fly even though my chases are short. I have to run slowdown and slug to keep survivors occupied and receive much rage for it, and if you tell me that you have time for a 12-hook game then I know that you're either versing yellow perk noobs or you're lying.
And you or anyone can achieve a 100% escape rate by doing exactly what I said to do. just key and urban evasion. Sure you contributed nothing, but if all that matters to you is escaping, that is a guaranteed escape.
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I'm sorry, you're not getting 100% escape rate with that build if the killer has any aura read. Even if you run distortion, lethal, bbq, nowhere to hide, friends til the end, ultimate weapon, etc will counter everything you're trying to do, and those perks are extremely popular. Good luck using your key when you're geting proxy camped and tunneled because you will eventually be found.
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In my experience survivors are removing themselves from games because their teammates aren't doing anything. That's my typical reason anyway. I get hooked and no gens are done and everyone is crouch walking around or in a locker? I'm out.
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- you can play 100 games and never see a killer with all of those perks at the same time
- Distortion never runs out of stacks, don't pretend otherwise
- Calm Spirit
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