STBFL and "Special Attacks"
Save the Best for Last should be adjusted to lose tokens per "health state" and not per Basic or Special Attack hit, as this disproportionately and negatively affects Killers like Deathslinger and Trickster.
This would be similar to the change made to Hex: Blood Favor when that perk had a similar problem with Killer Powers also activating its effect unintentionally.
Comments
-
STBFL as a whole shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place, it should have been tweaked to remove it's single problematic aspect: it's immense power in camping and tunnelling scenario.
Simply deactivating the perk when too close to hooked Survivors and not work on basekit BT would have been fine. The perk was mostly used by average/weaker Killers that needed to compensate for their weak chase or by tunnellers/campers that could essentially guarantee kills with it. By removing it's camping potential it would have been perfect but they had to kill the perk entirely.
Nevermind the fact that the perk is downright unusable by a few Killers, it's now only good in camping and tunnelling situations due to how easy it is to lose stacks and how there is no way to circumvent losing stacks (meaning that tunnelling is more likely since the Killer will entirely ignore the Obsession).
15 -
This is how it was on the PTB with being tied to health states instead but the problem was that it allowed survivors to take STBFL tokens away with perks like FTP and Plot Twist.
What they could do instead is have it lose tokens on any basic attack or special attack which causes damage. So for example the first 7 Trickster knives don’t cost any tokens, but the 8th knife will.
1 -
STBFL did not need the additional change. The percentage nerf was enough.
2 -
I know so many people who disagree, it did need a change it's been abused on killers who can use their power to curb the downside. It's a common tunneler perk atm, You all will be complaining when Decisive comes back because that's the main perk which countered it in the first place.
it's still useful, it's still strong. Just adapt and stop wanting to cheese the perk.
4 -
It honestly didn't need any change.
The complaints about tunneling are not unique to STBFL and face camping was already fixed with the anti-facecamping.
The perk was fine and it got killed for no reason other than survivors don't like the killers having decent chase perks.
3 -
It did need a change, it's not fun to go up against watch any content creator who plays often its usually complained about even still and it was easily exploitable with some killer powers. Its the one perk which cuts the most time off of chase, you will see less of it when survivors can actually heal again with the fracture changes.
DBD currently suffers from snowballing on both sides, the last thing it needs is anything to catalyze that matter.
You don't play both sides, I never agree with your takes lol
1 -
STBFL was never a problem and it working well with some killer powers was fine. Removing perk synergy from powers makes DBD dull, because instead of having fun interactions to play instead, there's no reason to not just play the best killer with the best perks.
Also for the record, I tend to play more survivor than killer.
2 -
The perk still has synergy, perks exist that work with it, plenty m1 perks, plenty obsession perks, so that isn't true at all.
Also it doesn't show at all because you always bring up killer experience, but never survivor experience, you are far from relatable in my eyes.
0 -
Yeah but its a perk that cuts off most of the time in chase, for weaker killers
Trapper (good)
Wraith (good)
Billy (pointless)
Nurse (extra pointless)
Myers (pointless)
Hag (decent but its still just trap placement)
Doctor (good)
Huntress (pointless)
Bubba (pointless)
Ect
It was good on ~11 killers but none of those killers were S tier or even close, people just want the weaker killers to stay weaker killers so they could enjoy their plaything longer, also dbd doesn't suffer from snowballing thats just the only way killers can win matches and stopping it is the best way for survivors to win
1 -
No DBD does suffer from Snowballing, the first chase dictates the direction of the match. How important it is to get your pain res etc.
Thats why people complain about SWFs/Genrushing, Thats why people complain about tunneling. it's Snowballing from one-sided matches for each side.
0 -
Personally I think if the change is here to stay, the logic of 'Play With Your Food' and 'Save The Best For Last' needs to be updated to be in line with what counts as a "special attack".
Yes I am absolute going to twist my language in BS ways to satisfy the conditions for these changes 😁
If we define our terms: -
- An "Attack" is "an aggressive and violent act against a person or place"
- "Aggressive" means "ready or likely to attack or confront; characterized by or resulting from aggresion."
- "Violent" means "using or involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something".
As a result, there are a few cases where the "violent" part of the special attack is not satisfied, as any "attack" needs to have the capacity to harm or injure using physical force. Any action that doesn't satisfy these definitions can not considered an "attack" for PWYF and STBFL purposes. With this in mind, the changes I would make are: -
- Deathslinger - Breaking the chain when spearing a survivor should lose a stack instead of just hitting the spear. The intent of the spear is to stop a survivors movement and reel a survivor in, it is the swinging a basic attack or breaking the chain where the intent to injure or harm comes in. This allows hitting a body blocking obsession and wanting to keep STBFL/PWYF stack can be preserved by simply swings early and canceling the reel.
- Trickster - Only damaging a survivor with a knife should count as losing a STBFL/PWYF stack. Each knife up to the last is building up laceration stacks to allow for a injure attempt with a knife or zone for an m1... these "attacks" up to the last do not exert a physical force capable of harming or damaging a survivor.... and lets be real, every knife losing 2 stacks is just silly.
- Nemesis - Only hitting a survivor who is already infected should count as losing a STBFL/PWYF stack. Similar logic, slathering someone up with the T-Virus infection is not capable of injuring a survivor, so doesn't satisfy our terms. His early game is already slow, he doesn't need his end game potential reducing too.
- Pinhead - Only Engineer's Fang chains should lose a PWYF/STBFL stack, regular chains should not. Once again the standard Pinhead chains do not have the capacity to injure a survivor, only when using Engineer's Fang do they satisfy our terms.
- Artist - Swarming a survivor should not count as losing a PWYF/STBFL stack. Crows swarming a survivor is not a physical force, only when the crows actually attack via a second hit, or when striking from close range, should a stack be lost.
- Unknown - Marking a survivor should not count as losing a PWYF/STBFL stack. Marking a survivor is not a phsyical force, only when a second hit with the ability to hurt or damage can this be considered an "attack".
Exceptions that remain exceptions by these defintions: -
- Trapper - Traps. Setting a trap is not an aggressive action inherently. Traps are indescriminate, even to the point of affecting the Trapper himself, thus, this cannot be construed as an aggressive action against a person.
- Plague - Vile Purge. Vomitting on someone to spread her plague is not physical force, thus still satisfies our definition. Corrupt Purge on the other hand is most certainly inflicting physical force to injure a survivor.
These changes would be logically consistent, with absolutely no squinting and sideways head tilting required whatsoever 😏😏😏😏
3 -
Thats how the matches are decided, if actions are to have impact in the match then they need to lead to an outcome. If you want every match to be neck and neck 24/7 with no impact from either side regardless of how they play then just flip a coin instead
1 -
People who tunnel are going to tunnel nonetheless. Most killers didn't even need STBFL, anyone who used it on a non M1 oriented killer was borderline wasting a perk slot. STBFL is still the same for killers like Trapper, Wraith, and Hag so it doesn't stop them from utilizing its camping and tunneling potential.
The best and most optimal user of STBFL prior to its nerf was Pig and she was still one of the weakest killers in the game, seems like she needed another nerf after all. Demogorgon was also good with it, but then again most good Demogorgons play M2 mostly so Demo doesn't really need STBFL especially with the existence of Black Heart.
2 -
Exactly, which is why it needed it's nerf it was used to make worse the issue the game already has. It shouldn't be a case of some killers get to cheese it and others don't. Makes it easier to balance, it was becoming one of the most used perks because of Decisive strikes nerf, as it made the easiest playstyle even easier. Unhooks are very hard to do against it etc.
That's the issue exactly, STBFL is very easy to use for casual players which shockingly is the majority of the playerbase, Xeno etc also isn't "Optimal" but people commonly use it with the movement speed because its easy to use with rapid brutality.
It was a needed nerf, 6.1.0 base attack reduction gave it an unintentional buff, which it's now down to pre 6.1.0 values.
2 -
The rework of stbfl is bad when the chains of pinhead can make loosing stacks for him without the iri add-on. That's all. I will not explain more why this is this is a stupid idea.
5 -
Why people are complaing that they can’t use STBFL on trickster like????
Novody ever used this perk on him and why are you talking about him with STBFL???
1 -
He wasn't 115% until the patch before STBFL got nerfed. I saw a few STBFL Tricksters in that time.
1 -
killer is all about snowballing. survivor is suppose to be about preventing slowdown, not going down, delaying the killer etc. STBFL is not good change because it is further dividing killers with in-chase mobility vs killer with no mobility.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on3 -
It's all true.
0 -
I am not disagreeing with the change, only the condition that specifically hurts Killers with Special Attacks that have multiple hits like Deathslinger and Trickster.
If you use Trickster's knives with the current STBFL, he loses tokens when only using knives on the Obsession and not just when damaging the Obsession like the perk intended.
Deathslinger loses 4 tokens because his harpoon counts as a Special Attack and then when he Basic Attacks to damage the survivor.
It's ridiculous for these Killers to be so negatively affected by a perk when they could just change it to fix this issue.
0 -
STBL didn't need a change.
Decisive Strike should've been reverted to 5 seconds.
1 -
I know you aren't this is a valid criticsm and should be changed for specific killers compatibility with the perk rather than a blanket change (legion doing multi hits but keeping his tokens would occur if it was blanket).
It did 6.1.0's base attack recovery buff happened and it was never adjusted, Demo/Pig/Nemesis etc have been abusing it for tunneling since day 1 of their release and it needed changed. The perk is to help m1's be better, helping killers who need it most, not your m2.
1
