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Should Boil Over be nerfed?
On Reddit there's a big thread with killers saying this perk is op when used in combo with other perks in SWF. Let me explain what the problem is. The SWFs are taking Boil Over + Flip Flop + Unbreakable + toolbox + Petrified Oak. The result is it's almost impossible for the killer to hook anyone. They travel in teams of 2 so they can sabo the hook if the killer even manages to get there. If the killer leaves one on the ground they use Flip Flop and crawl away from the nearest hook. If the killer slugs they just revive with Unbreakable. I don't think BHVR was expecting this kind of combo and maybe it needs some tweaks? For example Boil Over could be reduced from 80% to 50% and remove the part that hides hooks from killers.
Comments
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No, But some parts of certain maps need more hooks
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And some maps need less hooks. Sabotage plays are almost worthless on most maps, because there are too many hooks.
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It's really unpleasant to play against but it's not OP or anything unless oddly enough you do it on Midwich cuz that map already has terrible hook spawns.
It just forces a terrible experience on everyone though cuz either you slug everyone through the Unbreakables or you just tunnel them out one by one. Where it gets really bad is if they have breakdown but that's thankfully rare. Squads like that don't beat me too often but it's never a fun game even if I win and I can't imagine they're actually having fun either crawling on the ground for 4 minutes.
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Boil over along with knockout should be nerfed
both need to be gutted imo cause everytime I see them whether I’m playing survivor or killer it’s just annoying
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i honestly think thats something you can thank swfs and all these funny unhookable build vidoes for. one guy with sabo should be able to make good use of his perk and maybe even get the killer to lose the hook but not always but if there is a whole team that can communicate the perk just cant be good or it will be too good on teams
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The problem is that a sabo play can never be guaranteed to work out. If it was, then we'd see a sabo meta where killers would not be able to hook survivors anymore. Getting a down is way harder and more time consuming than sabotaging a hook.
So while there are some maps that really don't need as many hooks that are close to each other (like RPD), on average the killer still has to have a solid chance to get to another hook even when a hook is sabotaged. Otherwise, the killer literally cannot progress their objective in any meaningful way. Meaning, you'd all but guarantee survivors would bully killers into oblivion.
Sabo plays can work when the right hook is broken and survivors bodyblock the other hook. This is what it has to be. A chance to deny a hook, that has a high risk.
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Yes.
This perk can create scenarios where it is literally impossible for you as a killer to reach a hook, and I doubt this is even intended.
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So one survivor en route to being hooked, one sabotaging another hook (who gets hit), then the other two survivors try to block the killer and end up hooked themselves. That… seems like a lot of game throwing to try and get a single sabotage off. That… still doesn’t work (at least when I see streamers like Otzdarva and Ayrun try to do it).
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boil over encourages killer to slug to win the match but it takes too long for killer to punished survivor for forcing them to slug.
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No, I'll just slug them. a survivor not doing gens is a survivor not doing gens.
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This. It doesn't need a nerf, can just slug in this instance.
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It shouldn’t be nerfed, it should be reworked.
It’s not even a good perk for the average survivor, it’s only useful if you specifically try to use it in the most obnoxious way possible with certain other perks and/or on certain maps.
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Yes this perk doesn’t even encourage normal gameplay people just use it to be a trolling ass 98% of the time
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Let them have it at the cost of removing basekit BT
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I did not say anything about going down. But there needs to be more work involved to save someone than just sabotaging. 1 or 2 bodyblocks will do the trick and that's fine. Because it isn't easily recreatable while still being in the realm of possibilities. Think about how high the reward is for that. It's an entire chase wasted. That is huge and it can be game changing.
Obviously it's impossible to do this when that survivor goes down right next to a hook, which can't be expected because then what would happen, if they went down a bit further away? I know that there are also some maps that just have too many hooks in certain spots (like RPD) but in general it is definitely possible to pull it off.
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I don't tunnel, I think it's scummy, but not as scummy as Boil Over. So bring Boil Over and get tunneled.
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All the Agitation users and the last two Iron Grip enjoyers are probably chuckling under their breath.
The combo is a very strong effect, don't get me wrong, but that's also like literally everything the survivors bring. They each get one other perk. So almost no healing, gen progression, chase, info, endurance, anti-tunnel whatsoever. Honestly, sure, it might be annoying, but how many survivors need to be on deck to make sure the killer can't hook? Do they find time for gens with such a gimmicky play style? I feel like any killer who knows how to slug could effectively rail road this strat.
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It's not overpowered, but incredibly unhealthy in my opinion and should just be completely reworked.
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It needs reworked.
On its own, it's an obnoxious perk that adds almost nothing of value, because it just makes transporting survivors to the hook a janky experience for the killer, even though they still make it. The aura blocking almost never works. For a killer on controller, it's probably the most obnoxious perk a survivor could bring. Like with PC, it rarely guarantees the survivor gets out, but it makes moving around an extremely unpleasant experience. A perk shouldn't punish players based on their choice of control input device.
The builds that use it are almost all grimmicky sabo/unhookable builds. I honestly think Boil Over's "drop and survivor gains 33% wiggle progress" is the sole reason why we now have hooks on every floor of buildings now.
All in all, it's a perk that needs reworking because, right now, it's main reason for existing is to annoy the killer.
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boil over is a pretty weak perk and most of the time you get no value out of it, in this respect, it should be buffed if anything.
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No, but it should be changed since it's randomly super problematic.
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Boil over can be nerfed when they remove mad grit, iron grasp, agitation and hook spawns that are 10 ft apart
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There must be in between, for examples
- Titles at corner should guarantee a hook.
- Outside the shack
- Other side of gate's (left side is the switch, right side is a hook)
After those hooks spawn, RNG calculate the total number of hooks and distance to spawn the rest.
I had a hook like this, its impossible to hook by any mean.
I remember on wiki used to show the number of hooks that can be spawn in each map (but not anymore). It showed that Coal tower could spawn between like 10-15 hooks. How can RNG be that much of the gap? The number difference should be 2 maximum, not 1 third.
Boil over would be OP if RNG gives you 10 hooks, but completely useless if it gives you 15 hooks.
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Sabo is a very poorly designed mechanic. It either has to be overpowered or completely useless, there is almost no in between in its uses and no matter which one you pick, it's always going to be much more abusable in a SWF than solo.
Honestly I'd rather it stay useless over risking it becoming overpowered. Trying to play on a map like Garden of Joy against a saboteur is already miserable and I'd rather not experience that on every other map. And it's just not fun. Make the more fun perks meta not the frustrating ones.
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Its suppose to. Either fail to save a hook, or success saving a hook. How do you make it "saving a quater of hook"?
Though being saved from a hook as killer doesnt mean its killer's disadvantage. If there are 2 teammates losing a health state to save a hook, killers have free pressure. Killers would prefer that over getting a hook then find & chase a healthy survivor.
It would say Sabo mechanic is fine as it is, no nerf or buff needed. Its only matter of RNG number of hook spawn.
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Don't know what you mean by "saving a quarter of hook".
I don't think I'd call that free pressure, especially when it cost you something. A hook is much better than 2 survivors injured as after the sabo you aren't making any progress and still have more survivors working on gens as opposed to if you got the hook.
I agree sabo is fine. I don't have any issue with it, even if it is successfully pulled off, unless it's a map like Garden of Joy where there can be complete dead zones and force you to slug.
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counter is slugging but slugging for killer takes too long to kill survivors when 4 people are alive.
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Nah the perk needs a rework. It needs to do something completely different because as a console player this perk its just miserable to face
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I think it should get a completely new effect. This perk is, depending on the map, either absolutely useless or just gets you slugged until bleedout.
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No. It goes rather quickly. Just doesn't help when your going for hooks.
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The thing is even when you wait until the last second and sabo perfectly +tank a hit, the killer still has 3 hooks to decide where to go.
Saboing is worthless, except of someone gets grapped at the gate.
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This. Boil Over is a huge pain to deal with on console.
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Boil Over should be completely reworked. The Perk is not used in any healthy way, simply because it is too weak. You only see it in a build which shoul deny hooking completely. Not saying it is too strong there, but it is just too annoying. It is basically a Perk which will never be used in regular gameplay and only with a specific build around it.
BHVR tries to band-aid fix this with adding Hooks to upper floors. Which is simply the worst thing they can do, those Hooks are way too strong and can also mess up the Hook distribution (e.g. you can have a Hook on the upper floor, but nothing on the ground floor next to it, simply because the game knows there is a hook "nearby"). And well, they can be camped quite easily and are basically additional Basement Hooks.
They should rather remove those Upstairs Hooks and rework Boil Over into something more healthy. Ideally something worth bringing.
(Same applies for Knockout as well. It is also only used to be annoying and to slug the whole team and in the same time, it does not affect SWFs on Comms, but affects Solos way more)
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Boil Over is one of those perks where i think that it should get a buff, since for a solo player it has little to no value. Or has anyone ever tried using it on solo queue? Meanwhile on SWF it guarantees a terrible match for the killer. Which would mean its ready for a nerf.
Maybe its time to introduce solo player effects on perks. So that perks are stronger for solo queue, but won´t be OP on SWF.
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…my point is that if you need to meet so many conditions to pull off a strategy and even then it might only work once in a blue moon, it isn’t really a strategy; it’s a fluke. I don’t even see the best survivors pull this off much, and when they do it’s like a shocking, random thing. Sabo isn’t a viable strategy anymore because killer mains wanted it nerfed into futility. Similarly to how survivors don’t waste time healing now, attempting sabo plays is really wasting time that could be spent pressuring gens. It’s more reliable to allow the hook and get the save anyway.
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That happens only in very rare cases. The killer will typically make it 1 hook further and if that one is also sabotaged or bodyblocked, then they are likely going to lose that hook. Especially, if someone brought Breakout.
That is true. Sabotaging hooks is a very niche strategy that requires a lot of set up. But this is what it has to be. It is much easier and faster to sabo a hook than it is to find a survivor and down them. If we're going by the devs' goal of 45 seconds chases that is half a gen of time you just stole from the killer.
If that was a regular occurance than the entire killer role would become pretty pointless since there is not much a killer can do other than slugging. Which would become the alternative but it would make survivors miserable. There is no way for both sides to be happy with this and I think turning this into a reliable strategy again has great potential to push players away from playing killer, which in turn would lead to lengthy survivor queues.
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The perk is either completely useless or broken (depending on the circumstance), it's never just good. So yes, rework it into something else.
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RPD for example.
By default each trial starts with 12 hooks when I was testing it. If 2 survivors put in an oak. The hooks go down to 8. However, on a map like RPD it goes up instead of down. The hook count is at 14 instead of 8. 🤣
On my phone I wrote down what I tested with a friend. This applies to almost every map except for RPD. Haven’t tested Memorial yet.
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The perk cannot be nerfed unless you want the perk to be never used again. The design itself is just stupid and should just never exist.
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Perk should be reworked entirely. I have a special place of hate for Boil Over and I usually let one person out no matter what. Boil Over users do not get this privilege. Unless they are Kate's who are doing adepts (I see Dance with me and no other obvious perks, though running like they have Windows is also a possible sign but Windows is extremely common so hard to know).
As solo 90% of the time it's near useless. 10% of the time it gets value through dumb luck of how the wiggles work/hook placements. As a SWF if the whole team plays around it, it is extremely broken and deliberately used to make other players miserable. Perk absolutely needs to be reworked. It's from a time where the game design was more of Almo's nonsense of 'Insidious Bubba is pretty cool actually' where the goal seemed to be to make the other side miserable through sadistic torture. Everything like this needs to be thrown out.
The fact alone there are places on certain maps where you can go down and no matter what the spawn is and never be hooked is absolutely ridiculous. Even solo you can pull this off. Example is the center building on Disturbed Ward. Going down almost anywhere in there on the top floor with boil over makes reaching a hook impossible. It's not the only spot but it's one of the most common.
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I wouldn't say nerfed, so much as completely reworked. Right now, it's either completely useless or just plain annoying. Often it's paradoxically both.
I'd love to see it reworked to be something like Break Out but for yourself instead of the other survivor - if there's another survivor nearby, you wiggle slightly faster. Possibly, it could give you a burst of wiggle progress if another survivor takes a protection hit (though the amount of progress would have to be relatively low otherwise it would be completely busted, particularly in SWF)
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More than once, before it got a bunch of stuff changed, Ormand's killer shack wouldn't spawn a hook for me at all. Guess where every boil over user ran to.
Thankfully I haven't ran into that since the changes, but I agree that no map should have that guarantee.
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