It’s no longer an exaggeration… everyone is tunneling
I don't even know what to say that hasn’t been said 1.3 billion times before but almost EVERYONE is tunneling and I’m sick of dealing with it.
combine that with this current insufferable killer meta of Scourge Hook, Deal lock, dead man’s switch etc and this has become one of the most unbearable era’s of this game ever.
it’s so bad that the first 2-3 minutes of matches now are just survivors crouch walking everywhere for fear of being the first one seen.
something has got to change…
Comments
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How is this the most unbearable meta ever when tunneling has always been possible? we don't even have camping anymore. Did you play VS old camper Twins?
17 -
Stop tunneling my gens, please.
Though, if your team is crouching the first steps of a match, I'd assume low MMR, with new players?
17 -
Unlikely.
They seem to at least grasp the idea that whoever gets found first is going to be tunneled out. To ensure their own experience, they are taking steps to mitigate the risk.
Doesn't sound like new players.
35 -
If it makes you feel any better I don't tunnel.
I like to slug/snowball instead.
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It's no surprise people are playing in the most effective way possible to win. If it's a problem the blame isn't on killers, it's on devs for making tunneling and camping so effective.
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From what I can tell, I think OP is saying that tunneling is the most prevalent it's ever been, and that's what they're complaining about.
Put another way, you are correct that tunneling has always been possible, but OP is arguing that killers have never taken advantage of that possibility as much as they do now.
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I think it's because facecampers have swapped to it after the anti-facecamp was thrown in. I'd also say the 3-gen killers swapped to it as well but I'm not entirely sure on that.
That said, a lot of people have called me a tunneler even though I'd spread hooks or they'd be a 4-stack of the same character/cosmetic and it's hard for me to keep track.
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Tunneling was always possible, but DS/Unbreakable made the strategy not as effective as it is today.
On top of that, gens used to be 80 seconds. You either pressure gens or you most likely lost the game due to faster toolboxes, faster genspeed and the already called DS. Tunneling a survivor out took to long in relation of how fast a game could have gone if a killer was focusing on only 1 survivor.
And last but not least, killers were following more likely a moral code. Tunneling was frowned upon back then, now it is common. This is very likely due to role models doing it live on stream. A very talented DBD streamer who used to play in a more friendly way in the past is now a hard core tunneler. Especially since MMR is in play.
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It's only going to get worse! DS changes aren't coming for a while and the fact it's an entire unnecessary rework doesn't help my confidence in anything at all happening to limit it.
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I would say you are right. While I personally don't see the fun in it on either side, it is allowed I do think it is utilized by people who need at least 1-2k. Usually I assume it is people who can't really get kills by playing other ways since facecamping was nerfed with anti-facecamp feature making it harder for the Bubbas.
I will usually give the survivor who just got off hook 1-2 minutes before going after them depending on how good the team is. I agree when it is the same character and cosmetics it is confusing.
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Devs have said they consider camping and tunneling a valid strategy. On some killers like Twins you can face camp without the bar even filling.
Post edited by sinkra on3 -
It will continue unless the survivors learn how to force the killer into not wanting to tunnel or camp. And crouching in the grass from the beginning just encourages the killer to do whatever he wants, and they are completely unaware that they are giving up the advantage to the killer. This is the current standard survivors skill.
In other words, the fact that the middle layer of Survivor players is filled with beginners is the main reason why the killer tunnel cannot be stopped. And no one is aware of this and no one learns. This is because they believe that it is more beneficial to allocate time to requesting improvements to development than to learning.
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If you're noticing it in every game then Babysitter is a good perk to bring. It'll help your unhooked team mate get away, plus shows you the killer's aura so you can either intercept and take chase or make an attempted getaway too. It's a shame that instead of useful perks the devs give us scraps lately but Babysitter is still a decent option.
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So basically the survivors have to hope and pray the killer doesn’t tunnel them immediately off hook.
ok.
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How do you REALLY stop killers from tunneling though? Any protection or measures you give them would surely be used against killers, right? Just like how OTR, DS and even the built in BT can be.
And a BIG unpopular opinion, but I think if tunneling was disincentivized to the point of no longer being viable, DBD would be more boring for it.
The idea the killer CAN tunnel you out and you have to play well to survive (or have your team "win") is fun, tense, dramatic. If for example the killer just... leaves you to satisfy a x hook win condition, that'd be boring, right? Sure, you might end up surviving, but so what? The killer LET YOU survive for their win condition, you didn't escape from skill or from teamwork.
I think the real issue as usual is matchmaking, as well as the solo queue and SWF coordination/information disparity. These both need to be improved further.
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"I wouldn't have to tunnel if it weren't for Dead Hard,...I mean DS...I mean Circle of Healing...I mean medkits...I mean MFT. Just nerf those and I won't ruin the match for the first person I find. Oh...and I need at least 7 viable slowdown perks. Oh...I mean tunneling is a valid strat. get good loser"
Enough with the "but my incentives" bs. we've given killers enough carrots they should be orange by now. time to break out the stick
31 -
Bare minimum would be to put DS back to 5 second stun. They should also have increased the hook timer to 90 seconds to combat tunneling and camping both, to make killers choose between giving up gens to focus one person out of the game.
Neither of those changes does anything whatsoever of the killer isn't tunneling, and can't be 'weaponized'. Go patrol gens, interrupt gen progress and chase someone else. You know, progress the game instead of just waiting for an unhook to chase that one guy you happened to find first.
ETA: The current only play against tunneling is to gen rush. That's it, that's the entirely of 'playing well' for 3/4 of the survivor team during a hard tunneling killer match.
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Yes, tunneling is a bit out of control.
Without DS as punishment or BBQ as an incentive to not tunnel, there isn't much that can be done if the killer decides they want you out of the game ASAP.
The upcoming DS changes have to be a good buff, because it is the best chance to fix this problem, and the only thing survivors will be getting for a little while.
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But let's say those changes are implemented, making it harder to tunnel. Killers would need a buff overall to account for this (since at high level, killers often* need to tunnel to win). The obvious one is to extend gen repair times even more, which is boring for survivors.
So one thing might be fixed, but it seems to lead to another problem. Sitting on gens for even longer. So it's a tough one to solve.
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Who told you killers need to tunnel at ‘high mmr’ (less than 5% of the player base btw) to win? Otzdarva?
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A tunneling killer puts no pressure on gens. If survivors are too afraid to do gens, well...
Yes, killers can bring perks to delay gens, but survivors can bring stuff to speed up gens, extend chases and increase survival.
A killer that wants to tunnel will always keep an eye on the hook and a hook stage takes 60 seconds. There is no need to unhook within 5 to 10 seconds, especially if the killer is still near. There is also no need to heal directly under the hook, get some distance and heal inside the next jungle gym. Even killers that dont tunnel immediately will return to the hook if they dont find anyone else.
Why does the killer not find anyone else to chase? Because even nowadays in most matches 2 survivors are instantly hiding near the hook as soon as the killer picks up. Again, no gen pressure. And dont try to convince me otherwise, I've been running Bond nonstop for over 6 years. Stick to your gens!
One last thing, survivors are at their stongest at the beginning of the match and WoO is the most popular survivor perk. There is no excuse to hide for minutes at the start until the killer finds someone else, this is lost time to pressure gens that the survivors will never get back. Somebody will get found, use this time when you are most powerfull.
Against decently experienced survivors, a hard tunneling killer should get one kill, maybe another during endgame. But one survivor dead at 4 or 5 gens, that's the survivors fault.
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Im telling you. Once you get tired of being tunneled, you'll slap on otr and ds on your build sooner or later. We shouldn't be forced to do it, but if majority of survivors started to do that, then the killer community would realize that tunneling is not the best strategy.
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Thank god DS/UB isn't around because I was sick to death of survivors doing generators in my face with a safety bubble
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90 seconds hook timer will just mean people can be more efficient on gens without getting their team off a hook, like actual good players do and use the hook timer as a resource to do gens. Say killer patrols gens after a hook so this increase in timer doesnt do anything because they arent tunneling, unless its a high mobility killer you can just prerun and keep an efficient gen time while prerunning and only rescuing teammates when they are close to second stage. If and this is a big if, the survivors are good then this change is a big change that affects as always the already weak killer that can be easily prerunned, but since the majority of the playerbase still die to meme killers like pig I guess this change prob could work idk.
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Yes, stick to gens, use the 60 seconds of hook time!
No incentive will reduce tunneling, buffed DS will not reduce tunneling (but I still hope it will get a decent buff), 90 seconds hook time will also not reduce it. It will make camping less efficient but instead increase tunneling. The danger of loosing the match will reduce tunneling.
And survivors can already do that, they are just too... sorry, to dumb, that's it.
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I'm with you, although I think buffing DS is not enough. We are talking about a licensed perk after all. So basically new players would need to buy the Halloween dlc and unlock DS quickly or they're thrown to the wolves.
The base kit BT effect could use some work (no collision with the killer) so that OTR becomes a better option too and it might be necessary to add further base kit mechanics like a 3 seconds DS.
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Or just make basekit BT not trigger deep wound,... but this will get abused by body blocking, so yeah, loosing collision is the better way to go!
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Yeah it happened to me quite a few times today, I checked their steam profile and they had a lot of comments saying they are bad killers and tunnel, etc.
OP describe how all my matches go basically. Tunnel simulator ftw.
Whats up with them beelining to the hook too? I can't even heal with we'll make it and I was a while before unhooking.
When I play killer I don't feel the need to do that. I double hook everyone, and then go from there.
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That's completely not true. You can learn all you want but killers are going to tunnel its a much easier game 1v1v1v1 vs 1v1v1v1v1. Contrary to you're beliefs I don't know if you are new but unless you are in a swf this game is not a team game.
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If it is not a team game, can we get rid of SWF, or put them into a seperate queue? Just asking for a friend.
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No, that's not the case. All long-time Survivor players know that even soloQ has some bad matches and some great matches. I am also one of them.
HUD has greatly improved soloQ Survivor's coordination. Survivors just only need to know from experience who wants what. A team can be formed simply by gathering talented survivors.
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I have 4k hours in the game in solo q it is not a team game if all of my teammates escape and I don't my mmr goes down. Explain to me how that is team based.
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No online game in history has ever survived not letting you play with friends.... Also re-read what I said I said IF YOU ARE NOT IN A SWF this game is not team based.
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It is an exaggeration since I’m not tunneling Survivors.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on2 -
I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't see tunnelling that often. It happens, but in my experience it's not as prevalent as people here make it out to be. And when it does happen the killer usually only gets 1-2 kills. If they get more it's because the tunnelled survivor can't loop more than 5 seconds or the others throw themselves at the killer and get everyone killed.
That's not to say they shouldn't address it though, especially if my experience is the minority. It should absolutely be at the top of BHVR's priority list. And don't hide the counter behind a pay wall like DS again make it base kit or at the least a free perk.
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People love to exaggerate they'll just say the killer is tunneling but they won't mention they were on a gen or healing right next to the hook or the killer didn't hook everyone else first before them, or they purposefully body blocked the killer with their endurance or that there's 1 gen left with everyone still alive it's just black and white "Killer tunneled me that's it end of story"
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Why is everyone so shocked still about tunneling?
This game is about kills and as long as it is about getting kills and MMR is based on that and only that alone, nothing will change.
You can try some bandaits or nerf tunnel/camp people still will and find other ways to get kills the most effective way.
Only way how to change it is to make the game around hooks but then you also need to give killers time (and motivation) to be able to 12 hook everyone because atm there is no way you can do it even on A tier killers unless you face baby Survivors.
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People love to pretend that this is true. That the poor killer is absolutely forced to tunnel, when 99% of the time the killer either proxy camps or immediately returns to hook after an unhook and tunnel the survivor out at 5 gens.
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And since genrushing can't be employed mid-match, it has to be done from the start.
Cue 'why are gens so fast' complaints.
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If the survivors actually understand each other's roles and killer is chasing them, I will complete the generator without wasting a second and will not hesitate to hook trade to rescue them.
If I am being chased, the other survivors will waste no time in completing the generator and reward my chase.
If a lone survivor hasn't been rescued even though it's been a while since they left the generator, I'll head over there, join hands with the survivor who couldn't rescue them alone, rescue them together, and escape at three 1 hit-survivors. It will be.
It's a team play.
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That's because YOU choose to play as a team. Most people don't and again AT ITS CORE its not a team game. I don't even touch gens anymore because its boring a win for me is getting saves and memeing on the killer. Escaping is not a win to me and a lot of people don't want to play the game the way you do and some do but that's a choice of gameplay at the core of it all you don't gain mmr from dying even if you helped all three people escape making it not a team game if you got mmr based on all the survivors that escape then it would be a team game.
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Repeat. Yes, sometimes with selfish survivors. Sometimes that's not the case, and I just understand that to be the case. If the matches are consistently bad, it's obvious that the survivors are either immature or only interested in their own survival and don't understand that they are putting themselves in more danger.
I believe in the theory that human nature is evil, but I believe in my fellow survivors. This is because the gameplay can only be achieved on that basis.
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So you acknowledge this is not a team game good.
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Back in the day, if we had a tunneller, we would do gens until just before second stage. Then you trade, or take hits for the person. This way, three people are still on split gens for approximately 60s before going for the save. Then you still have 2 in chase and 2 on gens. If you do well enough you should get 3-4 gens out of 2-3 hooks.
However, nowadays, people will just instantly unhook, allowing you to be tunnelled out without any benefit to the survivors.
Survivors farming survivors is what is making tunnelling so efficient. 🤷♂️
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Meanwhile, I'm playing killer with random perks and trying to spread hooks, and get hit with all the stuff survivors can throw at me: Styptics, Syringes, BNPs, genrushing from hell, multiple adre, and to top it off, Ftp+BU to even deny me one kill at 6-8 hooks (bc obv. I tunneled, that combo would NEVER be used in other situations, right?). If I'm extra lucky, I'll get trash talked in end game.
The game can be pretty frustrating both sides, esp. when the other side does not show any mercy. I cannot really blame any killer for choosing to tunnel OR running multiple slowdown at this point. Using BOTH though ... that's really cheap/lazy, esp. on high tier killers like Nurse and Blight.
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And survivors love to pretend everything is tunneling you heal under hook? And you go after me instead of the uninjured guy running to shack? You're tunneling you hit me when i'm cleansing your totem? You're tunneling i'm running out in the open while everyone is hiding and you go after me again? You're tunneling no I won't think about why you're doing it you just shouldn't do it now don't tunnel me so I can teabag you at EGC later
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I agree some killers use that excuse and it is a complete lie, but 99% is a bit of an exaggeration I feel. In my experience whenever I'm accused of tunnelling it's simply because the rescuer either:
- Body blocked my and forced a tunnel
- I just run into them and couldn't find the rescuer
- They are repairing a gen or cleansing a totem in front of me
When I'm playing survivor though I do see this excuse occasionally but even then most cases of tunnelling I see are because the unhooked survivor is playing so aggressively the killer is encouraged to go for them.
For example, the last game I saw a killer 'tunnel' was because whenever he downed someone else, the unhooked guy would rush for a flashlight save, fail it, and then go down while the other teammate got picked up.
Tunnelling should 100% be addressed, and hopefully sooner rather than later, but if someone claims they are getting tunnelled every game and losing every game because of it then I honestly believe that it is just a lie or an excuse for their bad plays. Same with killers who make excuses for their mistakes and claim they need to tunnel.
Probably comp players. Outside of comp, you almost never need to camp and tunnel at 5 gens but in comp it's the only way the killer really plays (which is why comp is boring as heck to watch).
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no. It's an advantage for survivors if they don't slack off, but this means that few people understand that. If the survivor is just immature, I'll point that out, but I won't blame them. Because it's your next opportunity to grow. That is included the team theme.
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Power/perk strength is
If survivors are not far better than killers, the chase would not last long enough for 5 Gens to complete, which at least 1, or 2 teammates have to leave Gens to support to keep the tunneled one alive (free Gen pressure by 33-66%, without the need to learn survivors' habit to take shortcut patrol, cut off their running path, suprise incoming distance)
Teammates most of the time, will body block to take hit for tunneled one make extra distance (free hit causing injures pressure, without the need to learn leaving unnecessary chases, mind game to earn a hit)
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With how fast gens can go, it's no wonder Killers want to turn a 4v1 into a 3v1 as soon as possible.
4 Survivors means, one is hooked, one does the rescue, one gets chased and one gets to do gens.
With 3 Survivors, one is hooked, one does the rescue and one gets chased.. all of a sudden there is no one on gens anymore.
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