We have temporarily disabled Firecrackers and the Flashbang Perk due to a bug which could cause the Killer's game to crash. These will be re-enabled in an upcoming patch when the issue is resolved.

This is what i'm talking about when i say "Survivors OP"

2»

Comments

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489

    Bring Bamboozle. Easy fix. But to be honest, thats why nobody is taking you serious.

  • Nebula
    Nebula Member Posts: 1,396
  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445

    Incorrect.


    I play both sides, so that argument is invalid. There's a reason tournaments have heavy restrictions on survivors, because at the highest level killers simply are not strong enough to deal with them when they bring their best.

  • sinkra
    sinkra Member Posts: 386

    There are killer streamers going on win streaks of hundreds of games in a row. There's not a single survivor player in the world who can escape hundreds of games in a row, especially in solo q. Even 10 escapes in a row would be a massive achievement. Look at how much killers complained about MFT even when they were still winning most games. They don't want to survivors to have ANYTHING that makes the game challenging for them. The worst thing is that devs have listened to killer mains and ruined the game for 80% of their playerbase.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445
    edited March 4

    Would love to see it, but i'd guess that every match was nurse/blight/spirit etc. top tier killers. Which is not what i'm talking about when i discuss these things. I'm talking about the OTHER 30+ killers that aren't viable at that level.


    Also, a single tournament does not a data set make. You would need to look at thousands of matches at this level to get any relevant data.

  • Moonras2
    Moonras2 Member Posts: 367

    I don't normally mind shack connecting to a pallet loop or maybe even two weak ones. I don't think shack should ever connect directly to a window wall though or strong jungle gym like this. The two windows create too much opportunity and the pallets can extend those windows far too much. I also don't think shack should be surrounded on all sides by loops whether they are strong or not.

    I don't always agree with your opinion on the game but I'm with you on this. Shack structures like this can possibly be circumvented by stronger killers but absolutely hurt m1 killer. Changing them would just help out the weaker killers and make the game less frustrating.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445

    We shouldn't make balance decisions around average level players, if we do, then that means that nurse needs massive buffs.


    Do you think we should balance around average players or the top level?


    I post this video frequently, but its definitely the highest level players. It makes sense. Here is a youtube video that describes exactly what i'm talking about, they are talking about team fortress, but the point still is extremely relevant:



    In our case, we are talking about this OP structure right? So, if they made it so such a structure/setup never spawned (I.E. nerfed it) does it hurt low level survivors? No, because low level survivors aren't abusing this type of thing to begin with, it won't impact them even a little bit. But it will make a big difference in high level play.

  • xEa
    xEa Member Posts: 4,105

    I get what you mean, and like i said before, the RNG in DBD is pretty wild. Not as crazy as it used to be, but still crazy anough to go crazy sometimes ;)

    Should a setup like you encountered be the norm? No, not at all, but it should exist in my opinion. Extremly rare tho, but nevertheless a possibility. If the game would not have RNG layouts, i am pretty sure, it would not be as exciting as it is.

  • hermitkermit
    hermitkermit Member Posts: 364

    I understand that you mentioned in this description that the team you were facing was bad so that's why it's 4 gens and 3k dead, so ignoring that, when it comes to maps and tile placements it's such a tricky fix. Because a terrible map for huntress is an "op" map for blight. A great map for Chucky could be a bad map for Billy. Etc. A "killer sided map" or a "survivor sided map" can be flipped depending upon survivor perks, and what killer they're going up against. Unless you're a nurse then literally no map really matters anyway lol.

    Sorry for your frustration, but maps are in the rework right now, so there's hope. And just because a map may be really great for a certain set of perks or a certain killer's powers does NOT mean that said killer or survivor is "OP" just because of the opportunities that specific maps/tiles happened to provide in that instance. In my opinion. gliyn gamer

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445

    I already explained it though, you can nerf these structures because low level survivors don't know how to abuse them. And they are also going against low level killers who don't know how to do complicated mindgames that would hurt those survivors at that level without having those OP structures anyway.


    Like, imagine shack, for example. Shack at a low level feels like a dangerous place for a survivor, usually it has basement, and you don't always know how to loop the structure. So often what ends up happening, is that the survivor just predrops the pallet early, "wastes" it, and moves on.

    But at a high level, those survivors will do everything they can to never drop that shack pallet, and there are various check spots (many of which are not mindgamable due to random holes in the wall for some reason) that can be used to basically guarantee that the killer has to vault 3 times to block the window in order to force the pallet to be dropped.


    There are mindgames that can be done to help with this, but again, really good survivors won't be fooled by them because they use the proper "check spots" where it doesn't matter what the killer does, they always are able to make the optimal decision based on what the killer is doing.


    Now, imagine you nerfed shack, to perhaps be like the dead dogs one, where there is a breakable wall that significantly reduces the power of the structure. Would that hurt these low level survivors? No, because they are predropping the pallet anyway. But, it would significantly nerf the structure at a high level, and make mindgames viable on the structure again, making it so that its not just a guaranteed safe spot for the survivor.


    When i talk about "nerfing survivors" this is the kind of thing i talk about, when i talk about survivors being OP, this is the kind of thing i'm talking about. Good survivors can be literally uncatchable (again, not including nurse in this discussion) at these types of structures, and nerfing them would not hurt these low MMR survivors to begin with.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445

    That has less to do with balancing, and more to do with MMR. I am in favor of them creating a ranked mode that has these hardcore things in place that shoot for that "50% win rate for both sides" and having a more casual mode that is meant for people to chill. I would personally make it so that ranked mode is a forced SWF match, and the casual one is solo queue only (maybe a single duo is allowed) to reflect that.

  • Saiph
    Saiph Member Posts: 325


    MMR is bad but incompetent balancing is most of the reason why we're there. There were so many unfriendly changes for casual players in the past 2 years (eg. Self-care nerf), which competitive players did not mind but have resulted in a lot of low-MMR players leaving. And as a result, matches get sweatier for both sides. This is what a lot of players don't realize when they suggest a terrible balance change for their side, it might actually make the game more difficult for them too, because in long-term they will face better players.

    This specific vault setup is ridiculous, but imo it's not what BHVR should focus on: it's a difficult problem to fix, they have already screwed up so many maps, and it's not that impactful (it rarely happens except on some specific maps, you rarely find players who can exploit it, and you can always switch to a different killer).

    That said I agree with your solution to split the queues. Not sure about the exact details but I think at least splitting the queues between casual/competitive would fix a lot of problems.

  • Nebula
    Nebula Member Posts: 1,396

    I can get behind that, I think most maps would benefit from having a shack like Dead Dawg’s or just more mindgameable tiles in general.

    It just worries me that we’ll end up having “The Game” but instead of having a bunch of safe pallets that aren’t really chainable, there will be 20 unsafe, unchainable, and low skill expression resources.

    And in the nicest/most constructive way possible, if you framed your discussions in a more neutral tone, you’d get less name-calling towards you and more actual discussion which I know you’re trying to go for. Naming this discussion “this is why survivors are OP” instead of something along the lines of “this is what is wrong with maps” will lead to healthier discussions for you and others. Because at the end of the day, survivors have no control over map RNG like this and they’re going to take advantage of the resources they’re provided, as they should. Resources are the only thing between them and the hook after all.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445

    I intentionally made the thread title provocative, but i get it.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,485

    They include letting go on hook in kill rates, but they exclude any matches where one person DCs. Likely because there's a high likelihood that the other 3 do not escape, which would bump up kill rates further. I'd say the killrates are actually much higher, considering we know how effective tunnelling one person out asap is at crippling the team and helping killers win. It'd be no different when one person DCs.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749

    rng shouldn't be such a massive deciding factor. op's wording is weird, but their point is valid. those shack into gym set ups, or any good filler pallet into gym window set ups shouldn't exist at all. same with a coldwind map with all tiles being LTs and C tiles. that map is basically one big dead zone.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    The most absurd thing about this video is that despite having such a powerful map generation for survivors, they left after 4 generations. And many viewers just looked at the result of that match and thought "Survivor was the OP? It promise to make me laugh."

    I had no idea that people here had so little understanding of the game system and how survivor's side screwed up the match. If we were to create a balance based on these people, it would naturally be necessary to introduce base kits and protection systems to the survivors.

    A survivor with a reasonable mindset would leave the generator near here and complete it elsewhere, and if in a pinch, escape here to buy time. The killer probably won't come after you until the end. Because I don't have time for that. All survivors are safe.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    Honestly, until I came across this thread, I thought I was a bit too harsh on people. However, this video proves that Survivor is not taking advantage of maps that are biased in favor and disadvantage, and survivors have made enough mistakes against Region to allow the end with fourth generation on this map.

    This is a nightmare. Even in the best region in the world, it is impossible to achieve a 4-generation match on this map unless all the survivors are beginners. However, there are so many people who look at this result and complain that the killer is too strong. Someone please tell me this is a joke. I don't want to believe it.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    I don't believe in God, but three words popped into my head.

    We can kind of guess what happened in this match. The last survivor has fallen near this area, meaning he is being chased without taking advantage of his geographical advantage. Two generators near here are also being repaired. This is because even though the opponentfrom Region, they are crowding together and plotting to complete the generator. In this map, the survivors were required to spread out and take charge of the generators, but they completely neglected to do so. If done poorly, none of the survivors will make it to the other side.

    Even from short information, even someone at my level can infer this much. People who think there's no problem because at least the killer is winning don't understand game balance at all.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,905

    Sanctum is killer-sided. This is common knowledge. It has this one good loop (as you see, although this doesn’t always spawn) but the rest of the map is fairly bleak for survivors. Nevertheless, those players were obviously not great. But then again OP is probably pretty good anyway so even if they were I doubt they would have faired well.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026

    First of all, this is common knowledge, but even though the Legion can inflict injuries, it is only as M1 killer that can deliver the finishing blow. Injured survivors can be chased anywhere for a certain amount of time by simply running to the four corners of the map. Therefore, the region allows 1 to 2 generators to complete as a survivor advantage after the opening.

    From there, unless a survivor slacks off, one generator will be completed by the time one survivor is sacrificed. This can be accomplished even if the survivors aren't very good at chasing.

    And as I mentioned earlier, there are clearly signs that the survivors made a huge mistake. In other words, the result of this match was the result of blunders in everything: the chase, the gen completion strategy, and the anti Region tactics.

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749
    edited March 5

    there are a bit going on in the post and replies and idk what op is actually on about, but i don't care honestly. i just think they brought up a what i also see as a real issue and i commented on it; overall bad map design and heavy rng factor on it.

    Post edited by NerfDHalready on
  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445

    I genuinely enjoy when survivors outplay me at tiles that fair, but busted setups like this are as brainless as killers hard tunneling and you know it.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,905

    I.. don’t really know if and/or why we disagree. From your comment, it appears we believe the same thing here: Survivors made mistakes, the killer capitalized on those mistakes, the survivors died as a result. That’s what should happen. But if you’re suggesting the map was in the survivor’s favor because of that one loop I’m correcting you: that map is not a survivor-sided map. It’s killer sided, it just has one good loop. Suggesting otherwise is akin to saying midwich and dead dog saloon are survivor sided because they have a bunch of bushes survivors can hide in.

  • RhysVMT
    RhysVMT Member Posts: 107

    nurse flair

    "survivor op"

    Seems like bait? You highlighted a clearly strong 2 tiles stacked with 2 pallets and 2 back to back vaults with a gen on it. As a killer player, you know what I do when I see a crappy tile like that? Sell the gen and play somewhere else. Sooner that area becomes a dead zone for survivors the better. Any survivor tries to take a chase over there later in the game when the gens done? Drop chase and pressure elsewhere. It really isn't hard. Plus you're on Legion in this particular game, ykow the killer who can.. fast vault windows and pallets (break them in the process with Iri button)

  • JustAnotherNewbie
    JustAnotherNewbie Member Posts: 1,941

    I thought hard tunneling was a legit strategy that killers are forced into because of the gen speeds, which makes it the only way to play the game.


    If that set up is the same as tunneling, then I guess survivors also need busted set ups to win the game.


    Unless you are also up for devs to completely remove the ability to hard tunnel, which btw is not based on RNG and is completely up to the killer whether they want to or not. Unlike the tileset which can either spawn or not.

  • GannTM
    GannTM Member Posts: 10,874

    I did read your post, and it is way too one-sided. You’ve written it in a killer sided manner when the problem that everyone sees here (map design) is something that BOTH roles struggle with. Yes there are busted setups when RNG screws the killer over but the exact same thing can be said on the survivor side. Rancid abbitoir is almost unplayable right now for survivors because of how empty the map has become. This isn’t just a killer issue.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,445

    I don't keep it a secret that my killer main is nurse. I don't disagree that she is a problem, but i believe she's the only viable killer at the highest level.


    I do end up playing most killers in the game though. Like, in a given night if i play say, 15 games, i'll play maybe 3-4 nurse games and 1-2 of various other killers.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,479

    You playing both sides does not negate your ability to be bias. You are being quite so.

    I read your post, three or four times to make sure, so I understand what you're actually saying. I think the post title was too aggressive and threw people off coming in with the tone, which I don't think was your intention. You're usually pretty well spoken :)


    I'd like to hear you reply to this one though, as it sums things up well. Its a lot, so skimming might work lol


  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,126
    edited March 27

    Isn't there a forum section for maps? You would probably get better feedback there instead of people here asking why are you complaining despite winning

  • Ilikechips
    Ilikechips Member Posts: 127

    The devs will continue to coddle these people. Its only going to get worse for survivors.