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What we are feeling about current anti-gen meta?
Most games are GE + PR + Corrupt and Pop.
Sometimes Deadlock in and one of those perks out. Or sometimes it's just not regression build, instead it's blocking build which means GE, PR, DMS and Corrupt.
Pretty much those perks are in almost all games.
So question is that, how you are feeling with facing with those perks?
Comments
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Would be fine but killer basekit is so strong that you don't give up anything to run four slowdowns.
Still think Eruption meta was better at this point. Was way more extreme but at least survivors had a ton of broken stuff too + no maps were gutted yet.
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Eruption meta was actually the worst meta ever we faced but yeah you are right. Maps did not nerfed that much and survivors had strong perks too.
Now killers have super strong anti-gen meta while survivors having pretty mid meta. Thankfully they did not nerf Lithe and SB yet, so survivors having some chance.
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With this current anti-gen meta, Prove Thyself and BNP nerfed, gen kick buffed and 'gen tapping' removed gen's repair time should be reverted to 80 secs at least.
Repairing 7-8 gens (if you get there because in most cases you all die at 1 gen done) per game playing M1 simulator is not contemplated.
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It's annoying but not nearly as bad as the Eruption meta, in my opinion. The incapacitated effect prevented you from performing certain actions so you couldn't even heal or use any items, which made Eruption stronger than the current meta.
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I am hoping to see some nerfs to killer in overall honestly. Gen meta is so strong but yet, they are also tunnelling for make games even easier.
I don't think this will continue like that. I am expecting some good nerfs for them. The question is when.
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I got back after a hiatus so I might not be as knowledgable as the others, but it doesn't feel that different from when I stopped playing. The old perks just rotated out so new ones can be in the spotlight. The results feel the same. Maybe I would feel the difference if I got to play one of those 20+ min games.
I feel like BHVR nerfs certain very fringe situation, when a lot of people are asking for more general nerfs/buffs. So basically they can say they addressed something without really addressing it in the end.
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Grim Embrace is a major problem. The time it takes away if you get full value is the equivalent of the time it takes to do three generators. This isn't even counting if you add DMS to the build.
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It's a shame cuz it's such a lazy build, I understand running 1 or 2 of these but running 4 is such overkill being run be people that bought into the lie that gens go too fast otherwise (spoiler: they don't, you just suck at applying pressure) and leads to so many honestly very decent and fun killer perks never seeing the light of day.
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On their own or a couple, it's fine. All together it's irritating. Overpowered? No. Any fun? Not really. Creative or surprising? Nada. Especially true when it's so common to see 3+ slowdown (exact combination varies). The meta has become a crutch in our eyes.
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As a survivor main I just wish I got paired with the survivors that make this killer build necessary. In the majority of my matches the survivors I'm paired with wouldn't make even one gen regression perk necessary.
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GE+PR on its own is really obnoxious
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It is something.
I miss when BBQ gave BP and the game wasnt bloated with regression perks since back then you’d only really go against 2 regression. Obviously we are in deep and are not going back but I miss it a lot.
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Eruption was worse even with Medkit not nerfed and maps werent changed.
Gens blocked are not regressed. But old Eruption had 9sec instantly lost, 25sec of Incap, and 6sec regression. Total of 40sec lost, per Gen.
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Maybe they werent around as much during that part of the meta? Cause I find it unbelievable anyone who lived through that time to be reminiscing about it. But they do mention survivor perks so they probably mean the first iteration of reworked DH and maybe maybe pre nerf CoH and medkits. Though those still didn't matter much because killers knew to wait out DH, especially of they saw you use it once (and they could wait it even in my MMR). And to heal you'd need to lose the killer before going down and activated eruption on your unsuspecting teammates.
Stll this version of DH was certainly strong and fun to use.
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Slowdown perks are the only reliable perks, because of distortion and calm spirit. Why should killers bother running tracking perks, if survivors can just bypass them? GE, PR, Corrupt, and Pop are all reliable perks, that survivors can't easily bypass, so of course they are going to be popular.
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As long as every don't skip completing gen, there won't be much of a problem for the survivors. As long as there are no kids who waste nearby pallets and turn the area around the gen into a danger zone, or who are too obsessed with the chase and prevent other survivors from completing their gen, we'll be fine.
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Running into a lot of people with calm spirit?
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Honestly, games have been feeling shorter than the past few years (atleast for me). Gen blocking is annoying, yeah, but if my gen gets blocked I usually just try and find another one to fill the time. Later in the game when 1-2 gens are left it gets pretty frustrating.
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Running into a lot with Distortion. Enough that I don’t even bother with aura perks anymore.
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It was terrible, and I'm mostly being facetious. But even still, at least it wasn't bland.
Also no Skull Merchant.
The problem I have with current DBD is that it feels bland. Survivor has been watered down heavily.
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Distortion and Calm Spirit are not that popular tho. Both perks did not even make in top 10
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Feels like gen betrayal. Whose side are these gens on anyways? After all these sweet little survivor tweaks, checking their flaps, and turning their stuff to get them up and running, just to curl up with the killer and entity’s cuddles. The audacity.
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I'll be honest is not great going against when mmr has ACTUALLY done its job. The match could've been a 2k with some interesting plays but alas everyone wants to win.
When I play killer I don't usually like to run regression perks when there so many decent chase perks. With that said, if I'm going against opponents way above my skill level, and there's no weak link, I wish I brought the out the meta build.
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Distortion is popular in the games I'm in. I don't care what the top 10 is for the entire planet, across the entire MMR range. I can tell you right now, that self-care is not the #6 most picked survivor perk in my games, even though the official stats says so. Distortion is either top 10 in my games, or close enough that it might as well be top 10.
Also, it doesn't matter if Distortion is top 10 or top 15, because I'm personally seeing it often enough that I refuse to use aura perks. That is my personal experience, and if you ask why I prefer slowdown perks... that's the reason. If survivors want more people to use tracking perks instead of slowdown perks, then the tracking perks need to be more reliable.
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I don't like it. The only gen regression meta that I somewhat enjoyed was Ruin + Undying since you needed to be in chase constantly and try to pressure multiple survivors at once to get maximum value out of your perks. As a survivor I always felt like there was a bit of gamble involved. You could try to pressure through Ruin + Undying but it wasn't exactly a safe option. So there was a bit more thinking involved.
The current gen slowdown meta is not my cup of tea. I never really liked Pain Res (though I don't think it's super problematic) and Pop is a healthy but boring perk in my opinion. You hook someone, then you go kick a gen. Not all that exciting. It's fine to play against though. Yes, it will never feel great to see your progress reduced in a big chunk but it's not overpowered or anything and it does afford the killer to progress their objective, so it's not like CoB + OC where simply kicking the gen was already enough.
Corrupt Intervention is completely fine in my opinion. I liked it before the nerf but the nerf makes it objectively more healthy since the strongest killers will no longer get the full duration out of it while already tunneling the first guy. You can play around it but it definitely gives the killer some value in a very crucial time of the match.
DMS + GE is disgusting and it reminds me exactly of what was wrong with Eruption. Basically whenever it activates, you just sit idly and wait for it to pass. You have nothing to else to do. So even more than it's strength I find that feeling of having no objective problematic. You could in theory still heal but let's be honest, if you're gonna heal then you'll do it before you start working on a gen.
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absolutely boring there’s a reason why I never use gen metas and here’s a twitter meme about it
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So what I'm hearing is it's time for hex builds to make a comeback.
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No. All the "cleanse one and done" hex perks are still complete trash, and aren't worth using. Allowing survivors to just delete a perk with a single cleanse, is a waste of a perk slot for killer.
This means killer is mostly just stuck with plaything or pentimento, which aren't really that popular, and honestly don't feel like they are as impactful as slowdown perks.
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I mean I disagree I feel like I get a lot of milage out of them but maybe I'm just extremely lucky with my totem spawns.
And even if they get cleansed that's them not on gens so they're still useful.
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I don't care too much about the perks. The issue I still encounter is that solo teams take too long to realise that the killer is just patrolling gens and only commiting to easy chases. By the time everyone figures out what to do, half the team is dead and you've got two survivors left trying to break a three gen by themselves. It's doable, but still takes like half an hour to beat.
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Its unfortunately necessary in the current world. You simply do not have enough time to not hard tunnel or camp if you aren't running gen defense (and even in that case its still usually not enough). If you put together a match for example, where you had a top tier survivor team go against any killer that isn't nurse (even blight couldn't do it in this case) where the rules were, no perks, no items, no addons, no offerings? I'd bet the survivors would win nearly every time.
I think that the buff to the basekit gen kick was a step in the right direction, but in general i think they should do 1 of 2 things:
1) Do with gen defense perks what they often do with killer addons that feel "required" buff the basekit, then nerf the addons. In this case, buff the basekit, and nerf the perks.
- Maybe buff the gen kick up to 10%
- Buff basekit regression to 200% (old CoB)
- Maybe some sort of basekit corrupt that lasts a shorter amount of time then change corrupt to be a longer version/increase gen block times like lethal does for auras
- Then go through and heavily nerf all the gen perks so that relatively speaking they are about as powerful as they are now when combined with basekit changes.
- This would make it so you don't feel required to take these perks as the basekit actually has ways to slow the game down and would significantly open up the number of perks you see killers run. Yeah you'd still see killers run gen defense the same way because relatively speaking the power is probably about the same, but more things become viable at that point so you'd at least start to see variety.
- You could easily test this by tweaking basekit numbers and see how it goes.
2) Lean heavy into the gen defense being required and rework how it works
- Turn gen defense into the killer version of exhaustion.
- Figure out how much gen defense you think should be in the average game. I.E. gen defense when totaled up should result in survivors having to repair one extra gen of time, or maybe 2, or half a gen, whatever feels appropriate.
- Create a 5th perk slot that all of these gen defense perks go into that can only have these gen defense perks and no other perks can go there.
- Buff/Nerf every gen defense perk so that, over the course of a large amount of games played, they will on average increase the amount of time survivors have to repair gens by whatever amount you chose per game.
- For example: If we decide that survivors should have to repair one extra gen, then pain res is probably fine, unless it doesn't get 4 charges every game, maybe it needs to be buffed to say 30% so one average it hits 1 extra gen per game over the course of thousands of games played.
- Maybe ruin isn't very good because it gets cleansed too early, so it needs to be buffed up big by increasing it to 300% or something
- Maybe surge isn't meeting the mark due to it being so low, so the % is increased, or maybe the range is increased.
- You get the idea.
- Create 1-2 new gen defense perks that are basekit and not tied to a killer (so that killers always have a gen defense perk regardless of what DLC they have)
- The way i would probably do this is run a test where all gen defense perks are disabled, then put everyone into matches. See how the basekit feels. Probably too fast. Now increase the time to repair all the gens by 18 seconds (1 extra gen) how does it feel now. Does it feel right? Too much? Try 9 seconds. Not enough, try 27 seconds. Once you get it feeling right, now you know how much time that gen defense should add to a game, then you can start adjusting them on a perk by perk basis.
- The best part of this is that you don't need to worry about gen defense stacking anymore and each perk can be really strong on their own because gen defense becomes unstackable.
- So now its more about what KIND of gen defense you want as a killer. Which could change based on the killer you play, or your playstyle, etc.
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Also, i would be willing to record some matches and put it to a test.
Give me a killer to play, and a build that you see as "an anti-gen meta build" i can even do the one you mentioned. I'll play a few matches, maybe 10 or so with that killer and build. We can record the matches and see how it does. Then give me another build that doesn't use any gen defense perks that you think would be viable on that killer and i'll play 10 more matches, and see how it goes. See if we get a similar result.
We can also put in some parameters as well like "If someone DCs it doesn't count, if someone kills themself on hook before 6 hooks it doesn't count etc." to remove more variables.
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Corrupt is fine, but the other meta slowdowns are too strong right now I feel.
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Corrupt is balanced.
Grim Embrace seems pretty balanced, asides from the interaction with DMS.
I don't know why they buffed Pop to 30% in the first place. It was still quite good at 20%, it's a bit overtuned now.
Pain Resonance is absolutely overtuned atm. It should go back to 15%, and get the scream bubble back as compensation maybe (so like the release version of the perk with 4 tokens still). Make it more than just a pure regression perk.
Both Pop and Pain Res are absolute monsters by themselves and can straight up carry the game when stacked with other slowdowns.
I love this image.
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That’s great that you get value off of “cleanse one and done” hex perks. Unfortunately, they would be a waste of perk slots for me, because I often get survivors that can laser focus totems down.
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This and bad maps. Why would i run a chase oriented build on most killers when i am confronted at the very worst scenario with 9 pallets, which are often times super unsafe? Do i really need Spirit Fury + Enduring? Or STBFL anymore?
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I personally think Pain Resonance is too snowbally in it's current state and when paired with Grim Embrace + DMS (not all together mind you, one or the other) it's a bit infuriating and makes the snowballing far worse. Do I think they are an issue on standard m1 killers? No, but on high mobility killers its a huge issue.
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That last sentence there that you wrote though highlights the problem. Yeah, its probably too oppressive on blight/nurse. But someone like legion actually NEEDS that kind of thing to compete. Which is why i think they should nerf the perks, and buff the basekit like they often do with addons for killers that feel required.
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I made a post about this a bit ago, but I think the biggest issue it that they're boring as perks. There isn't really much counterplay or interesting things that result from these perks, at least Old Ruin made you go out and find the totem. Now Corrupt activates and you kick up your feet until you get to play the game, then it deactivates and DMS and GE activate, so you kick up your feet until you get to play the game. Because of how these perks function, this happens four more times the match, and then you add a fourth slowdown (probably Pain Res) just to be silly goofy.
The killer never had to alter their play style to make use of these perks either, they just have to get downs and hooks in like the four minutes they got for free. It's lame tbh.
Sure, this might not be an issue on weaker killers, but when I pick Solo Q and see a Blight quadruple stacking these bad boys, well, I'm suddenly feeling a lot less confident in how I'll perform that match.
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That's actually not bad idea. If you can open topic about, i would like to join as well. I am not sure if i can record my games, my PC is not good enough but i would like to test myself.
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People set the standard to the current time as long as it fits their motives.
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Both perks cover the killer meta atm though. Calm for UW, and distortion for aura reading, since it's apparently a must, like tunneling for instance. Still, you're right and they aren't used much tbh.
@Coffeecrashing If someone is running into distortion a lot, it's likely just bad rng. But Im just guessing! :D
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I do agree with this, I feel its really showing how badly some killers need help, thankfully they are starting to look into this.
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I just find it funny people consider THAT time better than the current one. If that's when they started playing though it makes sense, cause the game was still new for them. I also started playing just after patch 6.1 but I was also around this forum to see a lot of mental gymnastics over Eruption CoB and more slowdown perks, as well as having played against it myself. I guess it's like some people saying now that killer is weaker than it has been etc. although the stats prove them wrong.
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Uhh Knight walked so SM could run. Knight was one of the most notorious 3-gen killers. It's just that at first people here were shitting on him and calling him failed. He was also the first to keep a match hostage for an hour.
How wasn't it bland. Every killer was running at least 2 gen regression perks and maybe aura reading. Sure there were a couple who ran some off meta build but those were the exception not the rule. Pain res was also popular and proc'd every time you hooked someone regardless if you'd hooked them previously.
Did you perhaps start playing around that time so the game was still fresh to you?
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I started a few weeks before the Halloween event of 2022. I'm sitting at just about 3200 hrs in the game. 2000 of those were during 2023. So I definitely got really into the game and have a ton of experience with every meta from then until now.
Like I said earlier. I'm mostly being facetious but I still find it preferable because at the very least the games were intense.
Some of the most fun games I've had on this game were breaking 3 gens against sweaty killers with my friends in a swf.
The meta now, while more balanced and arguably less frustrating, is a lot more boring because of how watered down survivor skill expression is.
Most every survivor game at a certain MMR bracket plays the exact same, chase extension has been thoroughly gutted.
So now it's just:
Pre-Run - Predrop unsafe pallet until bloodlust hit/Loop safe pallet twice - Get downed - camped until trade - tunneled until dead - repeat.
These things still existed during Eruption meta but even still, survivors had equally as strong things to fight back with. Now all we can do is cling to old perks for a meta since survivor will definitely never get an MFT level perk again until those perks inevitably get nerfed too(Andrenaljne), while also waiting for more basekit nerfs.
It's boring.
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I mostly find gen-blocking meta to be unfun to play against particularly grim embrace+deadlock where you can proxy camp hooks and win. I don't think killer are the problem. it is that perk are uninteractive and take away from only survivor gameplay objective. I rather play against old eruption because at least eruption pushes killer away from the hook to kick gens disregarding the 3 gen play-style problem that is no longer present.
As result, I do not find playing survivor enjoyable. the perks objective blocking perks are unfun for me personally.
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This build combo has been burned into my eyes lately and its forced me (being the person who generally runs the Killer) to use gen repair perks in order to feel like there is an adequate counter. I miss fun builds on both side.
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I'm not seeing a lot of the GE/Deadman's combo, seeing mostly Pain Res/Pop.
I've also seen a lot less Surge because of the gen lock mechanic.
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Boring and mostly useless, it's a placebo. Currently, the gen regression is only useful when you already have the upperhand of the match. I'll take the old Ruin and POP without thinking.
The old Pain Resonance plus Dead Man's Switch meta was also better. I don't care if the regression is now greater, it's better to have events at every hook. But they had to nerf it because people are too dumb to get their hand out of the gens when someone goes down. And for some reason showing the location of a suvivor for the killer to move his ass off the hook was also wrong...
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