Tunneling at 5 gens
Since there have been changes to try and help make dbd enjoyable for both sides is there any thoughts on a solution to tunneling at 5 gens. I know it isn’t an easy problem to find a solution to especially since there are situations where killers will need to tunnel for pressure and getting someone out but it’s no fun when it’s happening early and it’s overall just weird behavior.
Comments
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The solution is survivors do gens while someone is being chased. Someone being tunneled out at 5 gens is the fault of the survivors, because it's already possible for 2-3 gens to be completed by the end of the first chase.
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It depends on the map, rng and the killer's skill.
You can get down before gens even be finished. But yeah, let's act like all first chases are ending with 3 gen pop.
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If the chases don’t last long it’s not possible buddy there are strong killers who can tunnel as well and get quick and easy downs
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Deadlock, Corrupt, PR, Grim, Lethal, etc etc.
All of these perks give the Killer the ability to tunnel out at 5 gens and win handedly.
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So it is your opinion that a survivor should get good. Thats the solution?
Thank you.
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If survivors are going down quickly then the killer player is simply playing better then the team. It's not a problem that the better skilled player wins.
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There are many other factors to getting downs you don’t expect a ghost face with lethal to get a down as fast as someone like blight nurse or spirit with lethal buddy. Let’s reverse the roles and say someone like trapper gets gen rushed by a team with with toolboxes and gen rushing perks and our solution for him was to just get better and get quicker downs you get absolutely nowhere trying to fault him for something out of his control. Survivors can’t choose whether or not they’re tunneled and getting tunneled out of a match early isn’t fun end of discussion
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Love it, survivors should just do gens while someone is getting chased/tunneled, but when survivors last longer than 30 seconds survivors are OP
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The solution for gen tunneling is to put gen pressure. Someone getting gen popped is the the fault of the killers, because it's already possible for zero gens to be completed by the end of the first chase.
You see how your argument really doesn't say anything?
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Survivors also have 3 other people who can take hits or even deny hooks.
If a survivor got tunneled out at 5 gens, the team of survivors messed up.
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If they’re taking hits or denying a hook which will only be possible with Sabos and hits how are gens getting done which was your solution to tunneling early game… your solutions are just contradicting themselves now
Post edited by EQWashu on18 -
There's no contradictions.
There are 3 other survivors in the trial while the first survivor is being chased and the first chase the killer takes isn't "tunneling".
If the 3 survivors can't get gens done before the end of the first chase and they are unable to help the survivor from being tunneled after being rescued, then the survivor team failed.
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3 survivors say one takes a down for the person getting tunneled that’s one other person unable to do a gen then a survivor will have to leave gen to go pick up the downed survivor that tried to prevent the tunnel unless someone got off of a gen to help tunneled survivor very likely they will go down soon if they haven’t already. Very little gen pressure to be spread on survivor side due to early tunneling tunneled survivor more than likely dead early match with possibly 4-3 gens still left for survivors to pop especially if perks like corrupt, deadlock, and pop are in play. Swfs will have an easier time dealing with this but solo queue also exists and simply put solo queue teams will struggle to coordinate compared to swfs. The fact that you’re even trying to fault a survivor for the killers actions just tell me you main killer and probably tunnel early as well
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I want to play in these games where everyone is popping 3 gens by the end of the first chase. This just so rarely happens in my games on either side.
Also, how does this even remotely solve the problem of someone being hard tunneled from the start of the game? Everyone else just plays M1 simulator and gets out? Fun experience for everyone involved...
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Because the issue isn't someone being tunneled. It's an issue of skill difference.
A killer doesn't decide how many gens survivors get done, they can only try to build enough pressure so that survivors have to give up working on gens to do something else. And at the start of the game, this isn't an easy task because maps are full of resources and all 4 survivors are alive.
If a killer is able to get a hook, wait for an unhook, proceed to tunnel that survivor without interference, get their 2nd hook, wait for the unhook, and proceed to tunnel that survivor without interference so they finally die on their 3rd hook without a single gen getting done, then the survivor team failed to either protect their teammate or use the lack of killer pressure to get gens done.
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Tired of people acting as if all survivors are on comms and how taking a hit apparently stops the tunneling (gives the survivor like three extra seconds to make distance)...
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I don’t tunnel and often only bring one maybe two regression perks when playing killer and I have no problem winning the majority of my games.
I play to spread hooks because I think that playstyle is when this game is actually enjoyable for everyone involved.
It’s not on the survivors for failing to stop a tunnel, if the killer is actually hard tunneling, doing gens or taking hits will do absolutely nothing more than buying maybe another 20-40 seconds for that survivor and that survivor only. When the down and kill inevitably happens, the rest of the team is now screwed as they’re all injured and most resources are more than likely gone.
This isn’t a survivor problem, it’s a game design and mentality problem. It seems a lot of players on this forum have convinced themselves that tunneling is not the highest value play while also being potentially the easiest play in the game. It’s not balanced in any way shape or form. People tunnel because it’s easy and leads to easy wins, plain and simple.
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If you want to play for hooks, play for hooks. This doesn't change that a killer who wants to play for kills is allowed to focus out a single survivor at a time. Survivors in response need to make tunneling out a single survivor not worth it by getting gens done and if possible add more time to the chase by running interference.
You are right there's a mentality problem, but it's not what you are likely thinking. Too many people take being eliminated first as a personal attack and act likes a killer player doing their objective is the worst crime you could commit in a game.
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Stepping in with a reminder to please keep the comments civil and constructive. I understand that discussions about things such as tunneling, camping, and slugging, often bring out many points of view, but remember you can respectfully agree to disagree with others & their thoughts on the subject. Thank you.
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That's totally fine as well, play how you want, you paid for the game after all and it's not your job to make everyone happy.
This problem, in my eyes at least, is less about balance or optimization or efficiency and way more about actual enjoyment of the game. It's not fun to be a survivor in a game where someone gets tunneled out early. It's bland, boring, and un-interactive.
This game does not have a ranked mode or competitive scene, so it should be designed in a way that optimizes enjoyment. I don't really see an argument for tunneling to be the most efficient strategy and also requiring extremely little effort on the killers side, while requiring a coordinated effort to prevent it from survivors that are more than likely not communicating.
There's a reason that tunneling is the number one complaint in this game, it's just not enjoyable at all for the 4 players on survivor. You hold M1 on a gen and hope that the guy getting tunneled gives you enough time to hold M1 for 4 minutes, or take hits and more than likely not make a difference anyways. It's just a bland experience all around the board.
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Sorry
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Wow, 2 minutes to write that reply to OP. Im genuinely impressed lol.
Anyway! A lot being said here, and a mod already chastised so I can't be as 'flowery' as I'd like. But regarding mentality, it's all on killer when its a case of 'Game starts, tunneling.' There's times its needed and called for, but out the gate is either malicious intentions for the other players or they had a bad game last few rounds and need a win.
Both suck, one is kind of understandable, and one is defended as 'I need to win.' These are just arguments the tunneling crowd has, despite how weak it really is. It's merely their decision to do it. No one is playing for them. If their mentality is 'I need to tunnel to win,' then yeah, its a mentality problem.
BHVR is capable of making a game 'everyone' playing it at any given time can enjoy. DBD seems to be that outlier, and also one that people defend making things miserable for their own playerbase. We might be killers and survivor mains, but we're all part of the same game. Though I do like to look at this as 'Man humans are wonderful due to the differences!"
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Survivors pulling of sabo saves and flashlight saves isn't necessarily fun to play against either, but it's still part of the game and I'm not going to start calling survivors unskilled or malicious for doing so.
Sometimes you just get bad games where you get killed first. It's not a big deal.
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I honestly feel like you’re not reading my replies before responding if you think that this is me being upset with being killed first. I’ve made it rather clear that tunneling is bland for the entirety of the survivors in the game, not just the person who actually got tunneled.
Player experience should be at the forefront of any game developers mind, so I also disagree with tunneling not being a big deal if it so clearly negatively affects so many people.
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How is it weird behavior? It's almost always the most effective way of playing killer regardless of map, regardless of perks, regardless of anything really. Besides Sadako, there's really no reason NOT to tunnel if you only care about winning.
I understand disliking tunneling, I hate it myself, but calling it weird behavior is just... weird.
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You can't exactly make the game enjoyable for both sides in a roughly balanced match in current meta. Its either bring full slowdown to make up for not tunneling or tunnel and be able to run other perks.
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Its weird in that by now, everyone knows its unfun, both sides have admitted that. Yet, it continues. Its a conscious decision being packaged as 'Its most efficient, so ignore all other variables.' Especially to new players, it would be 'weird' because... wow, this isn't a fun game. Why would I continue?' Anything yet? Can I get confirmation you do, or do not, understand my point and reasoning? Then can I have your thoughts on that? Thank you! :)
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I doubt they do, literally seems like they copy and paste on any discussion to do with tunneling and change a few words here and there.
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I got a buddy that just started playing last week and he's already sick of the game. The poor dude get's tunneled out in half of his games because he's the "weak link" and he doesn't have enough shards to buy Kate and by extension windows yet so he just runs around with no clue where to go.
He quote said to me "Why am I playing a game that doesn't let me actually play the game"...
It's tough to see and I don't blame him at all for not enjoying it. The prominent playstyles and design of the game are so unfriendly and unenjoyable to new players.
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Where are the solutions?
All I see is dogpiling, per usual :(
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It's because it's an insanely easy way for even the dumbest killer with no macro game sense to quickly and effortlessly build pressure. Since a lot of people want to win at any cost and have the mentality " screw the other side, the only one I care about is myself" it's not hard to see why tunnelling is so widely used.
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Nerf killers who are too good at tunneling blight, nurse etc. Put best killers agains't best survivors so make better matchmaking. Then see if that makes it more balanced ds back to 5s should be done too.
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Why do we need a "solution" to a viable and legitimate killer strategy?
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Do feel the same way about survivor players who do anything to win? Rush gens, coordinate with friends on comms, etc.?
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Because its not healthy and unfun to play vs, same way a team with tool boxes and gen perks arent fun to play vs either
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More fault of bad matchmaking game should put best agains't best. I see P100 killers tunneling on weak soloQ all the time they should be put agains't P100 swf who some reason get often worse killers.
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At least you acknowledge the getting gen rushed isn't fun either. Most commenters seem to think only one side has a right to enjoy the game.
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i think we need to see the DS buff before anything. It sound impossible to stop 5 gen tunneling without nerfing tunneling all together.
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Make an item that a survivor can use to trap the killer with them within a limited space. The trap releases on a down or set time. This can be fun for people who are good at looping as well. The flaw is when it can be used against already slow killer.
This can be solved with testing. Either make it an item that is found in the maps. Then make it only appear with set occurrences. This can make sure it does not harm either side.
Any more suggestions or alterations are accepted.
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Make the killer a bot
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That literally contradicts your first argument.
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Same reason killers needed a solution to locker saves.
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There's no contradictions. If a survivor is dead at 5 gens, the survivors didn't do gens nor did they protect their teammates. It is purely the fault of the survivors if they get tunneled out with 5 gens left.
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If you don't have the perk Babysitter, it's worth getting Steve for. It can help your tunnelled team mates a bit and force the killer to go after you (the aura read helps you get a head start).
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Once you read some posts, you can get an appropriate reply.
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Both the unhooker and unhookie (idk what the right term is) should see the killers aura with that perk
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Nah. At high levels, sure. But no one here is playing a tournament. Its casual dbd man. What are average survivors in a solo'q lobby going to do against this? Still their fault? New players, still their fault? If you see the lobby is definitely a 4 man, do you still play like normal? Genuine question.
This rhetoric is just a low of human empathy. There will be people like this, but its a veery very small sect of players whom BHVR can't seem to get a grip on.
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I've always thought so too. Last thing you want is the unhooked survivor running right into the killer's arms
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Never thought I’d meet a fellow Babysitter enthusiast. You have great taste 😎
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It's not a problem that the better skilled player wins.That would be fine if the roles had equal skill expression. To use an example later in the thread you say:
If a killer is able to get a hook, wait for an unhook, proceed to tunnel that survivor without interference, get their 2nd hook, wait for the unhook, and proceed to tunnel that survivor without interference so they finally die on their 3rd hook without a single gen getting done, then the survivor team failed to either protect their teammate or use the lack of killer pressure to get gens done.So to outplay the killer: the survivors need to coordinate whether the killer is camping or not, who should go for the rescue (because if too many go for the rescue, also a problem), potentially trade off body blocks against the killer to keep the tunneled survivor from getting downed, and generally do this all without comms.
To outplay the survivors: the killer needs to stand slightly away from the hook and charge in when the game gives them a notification the unhook happened.
This is the big problem. It's not that killers are exhibiting so much more skill than survivors, it's that the killer strategies are incredibly simplistic while a lot is asked of survivors.
And its fine to say that's the game design. BHVR's opinion, that I don't disagree with, is that making the escapes harder makes them more worthwhile. But let's not call it better skill.
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