Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
Survivors need to improve and get better
There are many discussions on what is unfair for survivors but as someone that plays roughly 50/50 killer/survivor I don't see much discussion around criticizing survivor's lack of improvement. I get that DbD is a popular game and there are new players coming into the game all the time, but barring that the game has been out for many years and most of the problematic players in solo-q are not new players.
Main issue I see with survivors is they are not proactive with gens. They consistently go for easy far-off gens and 3-gen the team. Survivors have got to start learning the maps and being proactive about identifying and pressuring 3-gen locations early in the match, or in the event that there is a 3-gen, proactively identifying and helping the team to pressure different gens and force the killer to have to patrol all 3 gens. There are perks available to help out with this so "I don't know where the gens are" is not an excuse. Running around doing gens blindly is not doing you or the team any favors and in most cases you are handing the game over to the killer.
This brings up the second issue: Many survivors don't pressure 3-gen locations because they want to hide and are afraid to loop a killer. Survivors have to learn that each player in the team has to take their turn wasting the killer's time, and in addition survivors need to be taking hook states during the game, everyone needs to do this. No one is expecting you to take the killer for a 5-gen chase or 360-tech like a looping god but be proactive and learn to use tiles to your advantage, there are myriad youtube tutorials on the types of tiles and how to use them effectively as well as aura reading perks and items to help you see the killer while looping and evading. Time wasting perks like head-on, blast mine and others are also at your disposal.
Third, Too many survivors complain about being tunneled out too often, but aside from learning to use tiles better and improving your map sense and knowledge, are you also running any anti-tunnel perks? do you also take protection hits for your teammates or do you use perks or items to deny the killer hooks when they are being tunneled or do you hide in a corner?
TLDR: Too many survivors complain that the game is unfair but they don't work to improve their game by watching tutorials or run the perks needed to balance their weaknesses. Sometimes you are the main cause of your own demise during a match.
Comments
-
This is a dbd test. The answer to this question will prove your dbd skills.
2 -
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
3 -
Too many survivors complain that the game is unfair but they don't work to improve their game
The idea that these complaints come from the same people that barely know the game is flat wrong. As a quick reminder, the lowest escape rate is actually at the highest MMR. The game is the most killer-sided at the higher MMR ranges. These complaints aren't coming from bad survivors that sit in a corner and do nothing all game.
Main issue I see with survivors is they are not proactive with gens. They consistently go for easy far-off gens and 3-gen the team. Survivors have got to start learning the maps and being proactive about identifying and pressuring 3-gen locations early in the match, or in the event that there is a 3-gen, proactively identifying and helping the team to pressure different gens and force the killer to have to patrol all 3 gens. There are perks available to help out with this so "I don't know where the gens are" is not an excuse. Running around doing gens blindly is not doing you or the team any favors and in most cases you are handing the game over to the killer.
I don't know why you are bringing this up. No one complained about survivors creating their own 3-gens, except for killers. The 3-gen complaints had nothing to do with survivors 3-genning themselves, but with certain killers (Specifically Knight and Skull Merchant) permanently locking down the three gens closest to one another from the start in order to force a 3-gen. The wrong killer design, as proven by several showcases, can blast this issue into the stratosphere to the point where the most favoured tactic for Skull Merchant was getting the match to time out.
This is not okay. This is extremely obviously not okay. But it also has nothing to do with what you are talking about.
This brings up the second issue: Many survivors don't pressure 3-gen locations because they want to hide and are afraid to loop a killer. Survivors have to learn that each player in the team has to take their turn wasting the killer's time, and in addition survivors need to be taking hook states during the game, everyone needs to do this. No one is expecting you to take the killer for a 5-gen chase or 360-tech like a looping god but be proactive and learn to use tiles to your advantage, there are myriad youtube tutorials on the types of tiles and how to use them effectively as well as aura reading perks and items to help you see the killer while looping and evading. Time wasting perks like head-on, blast mine and others are also at your disposal.
Again, this is not being complained about, except by killers. This is argumentation killers bring up to try and get Distortion nerfed, not survivors.
Third, Too many survivors complain about being tunneled out too often, but aside from learning to use tiles better and improving your map sense and knowledge, are you also running any anti-tunnel perks? do you also take protection hits for your teammates or do you use perks or items to deny the killer hooks when they are being tunneled or do you hide in a corner?
Band-aid perks are never the solution to overarching problems with gameplay design, and they take away from depth of gameplay by crippling non-meta builds. Survivors shouldn't have to equip band-aid perks and sacrifice their loadout variety in order to resolve an issue that should naturally not exist. Additionally, while taking protection hits for your teammates may improve the tunnelled player's experience somewhat, it's also much more likely to give the killer the win by rewarding them with free pressure and slowdown.
Yes, it's true that hook denial is a way to slow down a tunnel, but that firstly requires a ton of coordination which makes for a deeply unfair effort balance between the survivors and killer (Which may be why high MMR 4-man squads have the highest escape rate, though still not hitting 50%), but secondly, this also encourages what is honestly the worst gameplay experience for killer. Often referred to as 'bully squads'.
Survivor complaints, by and large, have also not been about balance as much as they have been about quality of gameplay. You can improve as much as you want, getting tunnelled still means that you'll be kicked out of the match with roughly 8K points and a depip because you only got one fragment of survivor gameplay. And the rest of your teammates got to experience the joy of M1 and nothing else. Camping is much the same. Bleedout slugging is much the same.
The biggest thing survivors are asking for, is for the game to focus more on breadth of gameplay instead of constantly being flattened to a 1v1 with three spectators.
If survivors were truly concerned with the game's balance, we'd have seen far, far more clamouring for survivor buffs/killer nerfs with the release of the latest stats that just flatly prove that the game is killer-sided at the moment. But by and large, the survivors didn't care about the balance.
They just want the gameplay to be addressed.
So I don't see what the point of this thread is, other than to gaslight people into thinking that any survivor complaint must come from lead-ELO, sub-10 hour Blendettes.
44 -
This can go both ways though, I get killers having a cry post game about this and that and all I can really tell them is they just need to get better at the killer they are playing and to understand we all get completely ######### on when we are learning a killer or we face better opponents.
6 -
Again, this is a test to check your understanding of dbd. He need answers, not propaganda. Don't mistake.
3 -
If killers are improved and be better, 6.1.0 would not be a thing.
20 -
Oh yeah, the good ol' days of survivors being 100% safe holding W and dropping pallets because the break animation was just long enough to reach the next safe loop/pallet.
16 -
The kill rate pre-6.1 was 53%. If killers think the game was unfair pre-6.1 when they already had a higher than 50% kill rate, it tells me they don't want a fair and balanced game.
17 -
Arguing that 53% was balanced is both completely ignoring the nuance of the amount of killers/each killer's skill ceiling AND the fact that the developers themselves consider 60% balanced for an asym.
I started the game before that patch and it was hell for M1 killers. We also forget that was the time killers could down off hook if the survivors didn't run BT themselves. I also remember being trash at loops and still surviving by holding W and prethrowing pallets because most M1 killers couldn't keep up if gens were plowed through with kitted toolboxes. The game's more balanced these days and everyone has their rose-tinted glasses on too tight.
13 -
Just a counter point to OP.
Devs can make all killers powerful as Blight, Nurse or PTB Huntress, or even better. If survivors complain, they can simply input "Just improve and get better".
You can practice to dodge a knife, then a sword, but at one point when enemy using a gun, there is no point in improving and get better.
The game itself currently is fine in balancing and killers' power strength. Its only that using every possible meta in loadout but still tunnel survivors. Thats what most survivors complain and find its unfun.
4 -
As a Sadako main I laugh at the line "Devs can make killers powerful as Blight, Nurse or PTB Huntress." because I know full well how that turned out.
8 -
AND the fact that the developers themselves consider 60% balanced for an asym.
Did they ever say 60% was balanced, or that it was their personal benchmark?
Statistically, going by Nightlight, it's not 'balanced'. I'm pretty sure they said they were aiming for 60% because it feels right for the horror theme.
8 -
53% is still lower than the intended 60%. 60% kill rate = 2k on average. This tells me you don't understand what fair or balanced means, at least in this context.
7 -
I'm sure it goes hand-in-hand with their logic, like it or not. It makes no sense to have a single survivor have an equal footing with the killer in a 1v4 game. I don't think we need PTB Huntress or Pre-Patch Nurse mind you, but the killer shouldn't be a pushover like it was back before 6.1.0 either. Which is why I say right now, the game is pretty dang balanced all things considered. Needs more work, yes, but I'd rather play this current patch than when I started.
8 -
I didnt say they made killers more powerful than Blight and Nurse? You're dragging my point.
3 -
Just pointing out the humor in that sentence, specifically. No dragging intended. We all know the other killers can't be brought to that level or else we'll get these exact same arguments.
4 -
Basically everything you said can be translated to killer aswell. The only difference is that killer have 60% killrate ballanced by BHVR while survivor have to take the harder route.
I agree that most players (like in any game) are not using high potential of what they could, but for what do we have an MMR system? Weaker players should play against weaker players, and stronger with stronger.
It is more constructive to critzise MMR not working well instead of just saying "Git good noob".
11 -
Problem is this is an asym. Survivors not knowing what they're doing are probably still gonna die to killers who only know M1 and possibly their ranged attack unless DBD is their first video game ever.
I still think information for newer players needs to be addressed better because I know for sure I'd have been lost for a long time if I was just stuck with their tutorials.
5 -
Better ingame tutorial is one thing, telling one side the issue is lack of skill is another.
3 -
As far as i know, they never said 60% is "ballanced".
Here are some comments from Peanits about that topic.
Can somebody please explain me why 60% killrate is ballanced? - Page 3 — BHVR
3 -
Honestly, I can't stop laughing when I see the story so far. Why does everyone talk about the survival rate and not the purpose of the thread? The reason the survival rate is low is due to the actions of the survivors, so this is a thread about what we should do to improve it.
By the way, the subtitle of this thread is "Beginner Survivor's Guide." In other words, this content is practiced by "all intermediate level survivors and above" to varying degrees.
In other words, anyone who cannot understand what is written here is definitely a beginner. Whether you're a self-proclaimed 5000 hour player, someone who plays both Killer and Survivor and is doing well, or someone with a high MMR. The truth is all clear in the replies to this thread.
3 -
Survivors need to improve and get better
Yea so do killers, and it is saying A LOT more about killers given just how low Nurses kill rate has been.
There's a reason the most powerful killer in the game, twice now, has been on the low end of kill rates.
Its because the majority of killer players (not pointing fingers at anyone here) that play this game aren't that great. And they get away with it due to the OTHER side not being that great either.
The only difference here is you have an advantage of speed/power and mechanics that survivors aren't meant to directly counter.
To get to the level of several minutes of looping a killer, or spreading gen pressure correctly, check spots etc... All of the things that generate a difficult match for the killer takes A LOT of work (for the majority of players). Whereas for the killer, it takes very little from them to get the outcome of 3k/4k (for the majority of players) to make it very hard for the survivors.
The majority of people who play this game are most likely not that competitive/sweat about it. And probably play this to casually have some fun. Unfortunately, in SoloQ you get bunched up with a mixed bag of casual players/gamers and this is where the issues come in. And unfortunately, you can't control what will make it into your que.
6 -
A chase for a few minutes? You don't need that. Even if your opponent is a nurse, if you can survive the blink attack twice, you can gain about 40 seconds before going down. If everyone does that, the generator will powered. What Survivors need is not to not go down, but to go down in an advantageous spot.
No intermediate or advanced player saying they need a chase for several minutes.
1 -
And yet the killers are still somehow struggling against these bad survivors to the point where they complain about Windows or Distortion.
It's always funny how survivors are forced to get good meanwhile every inconvenient survivor thing gets complained about to the point where the devs are forced to nerf it.
14 -
IIRC at that time they were aiming for 50% or something quite similar. The 60% only became a thing just before patch 6.1.0. Like right before it.
2 -
Yea the majority of players who play this game do not make it past 20 seconds in chase, you can forget 40. Thats just how it is even against something like Pig or Meyers. As for where to go down, that is out of the survivors control until they get to the more advanced play, where they CAN make chases last 40seconds or more.
Several minutes remark was as a collective not just one person. Should clarify what I mean by several as well, long enough to make it difficult for the killer to keep pressure even with slow down.
0 -
but the killer shouldn't be a pushover like it was back before 6.1.0 either.
I don't think they were back then. But also, this is where the 'feel' of the game begins to meddle with balance, and why I'm sceptical about BHVR ever having said that 60% killrate was for balance purposes.
I'm sure it goes hand-in-hand with their logic, like it or not. It makes no sense to have a single survivor have an equal footing with the killer in a 1v4 game.
But we do have to consider how we want to balance the game in the end. Personally, considering escapes wins and taking 3K+ as wins seems like a good balancing metric, but we're not hitting that. Going by Nightlight's statistics, killers are 'winning' a little under 49%, whereas survivors are 'winning' a little under 45%. That's a pretty substantial difference in killers' favour.
If we were to hunt for this 60% kill rate statistic, the killer's winrate would similarly inflate, and the survivors' winrate would deflate, further increasing the gap, and thus making the game less balanced.
According to Nightlight, the two killers currently the closest to the targeted 60% killrate are Twins (61.38%) and Plague (59.34%). This means survivors have a roughly 40% chance to escape against either of them. However, the 'win' rate for these two killers are 58% and 53% respectively, versus roughly 40% for the survivors. That's not balanced.
60% kill rate = 2k on average.
This interpretation really needs to get chucked out of a window. Kill rate and win rate are very loosely and illogically related. That '2k on average' is utterly meaningless for the purposes of balance as it only considers the average match, and the average match is played by no one.
EDIT: Got curious, checked Nightlight again: There's only five killers for who a 2K is NOT the least likely outcome. Those are Myers (0K is the least likely), Pyramidhead (Both 0K and 1K occur less frequently), the Unknown (Small sample size, but there were equal 1Ks and 0Ks registered), Bubba (0Ks were the least likely) and Nemesis (Less likely to get a 3K than a 2K). For all other killers, 2K was the least likely outcome, often by a pretty solid margin, too.
Post edited by Firellius on10 -
In this forum I understood a very specific concept. Anything bad in this game is always and exclusively the fault of the survivors. The killers are poor victims, so good and aware of everything. 🤣
13 -
What do people who ignore the purpose of the thread and just spew hate want to do? Almost everyone here never mentions what survivors should do to survive better.
If any facing the M1 Killer, the survivor can just run straight away, and if get hit, just run straight further away, which will buy you more than 20 seconds of time. It's shocking to me that I can't even do that.
1 -
Freddy is not weak, you just need to get better.
That's the summary of this thread.
4 -
So, how can Freddie become better? Please suggest concrete things and tactics for him to do. Only when you get to that point can you deny the purpose of this thread. If you don't do that, what you say is just hate.
0 -
One thing I've learned is that if one person is complaining about something, it's probably because they're a whiner, but if a whole lot of people are complaining about that thing, there's probably a problem that needs addressing.
Certainly there are some people who could benefit from your specific advice, but it feels almost disrespectfully reductive to act as if there couldn't possibly be some truth to those complaints.
It's also worth noting that the main complaint I've had for a while is that it feels like some Killer players think the goal of the game isn't to sacrifice the survivor's characters, but to make the people playing those survivors as miserable as possible. This post honestly reinforces that perception. I know a lot of people on this forum would take poorly to a thread where someone said "sometimes your first down costs 2 gens? Get better at chasing and stop whining lol," and they'd be right to be annoyed at that.
5 -
As someone who is terrible at killer and yet I get nearly consistent 4K on Spirit and Chucky.
Even my BFs 10 year old niece who is pretty bad at the game too and panics gets 4k regular with Sadako heh.
5 -
I know what you mean. So why is everyone making such a fuss about tunneling 5gen? People who follow what is written at the beginning of this article will never fall into such a situation unless it is an accident. And the content written is by no means advanced, but rather just the basics.
If every agree you, almost everyone is failing to even follow the basics.
0 -
What do people who ignore the purpose of the thread
All of your posts in this thread have been more verbose versions of 'u bad lol', so I don't think you can point fingers at anyone else.
15 -
I feel like it should be a requirement to post your own Survivor solo queue gameplay before commenting on it.
So many posts about how easy survivor is and how you can escape all your solo queue games if you get good. I'd love to see how these people play survivor honestly.
5 -
Yes, so my opinion is that the first content of this thread is the basics, so let's all stick to them, and if we can't stick to them, Survivor won't win, right? I Just say that.
1 -
It's not an interpretation. It's basic mathematics applied to observable reality. You balance around the average match because it would be asinine and counterproductive to balance around less likely outcomes. Calling something meaningless and dismissing it doesn't make it meaningless, nor does it suddenly become untrue. It just means you lack an argument and genuinely think hand-waving it away counts as one.
1 -
You didn't get it what I said.
Please read again.
0 -
I win 90% of my games without tunneling, so I think tunneling is not necessary to win.
Also, I find it really boring to tunnel, and I find it really boring to play survivor in a game where someone who isn't me is being tunneled. The reason I complain about tunneling is because 80% of the time it means the game is going to be incredibly boring.
4 -
Since you brought up Freddy as a contrast, please explain the method in detail like at the beginning of this thread. However, just mentioning Freddie's name does not negate the content of this thread. This is a thread about what to do and how to do it, not about survival rates.
0 -
You balance around the average match because it would be asinine and counterproductive to balance around less likely outcomes.
This is where you miss the mark though: that 2K that you point out? That IS the least likely outcome. For almost all killers. I updated the post while you were quoting this one to add the statistical details, but there's only five killers for whom a 2K is NOT the least likely outcome.
The relationship between kill rate and win rate is extremely weird. At one point Nightlight was even showing a very slightly higher win rate for a very slightly lower kill rate killer.
As a quick illustration of how loosely kill and win rates are correlated: What would happen to the both of them if the hatch were to be removed?
EDIT: Double-checked again: The all-killer average pits 2K as the least likely outcome, lagging behind 1Ks by a whopping 4.1 percentage points: 17.92% vs 13.82%.
5 -
That doesn't make sense. If the survivors weren't at fault, the tunnel wouldn't kill a survivor in 5 gens, so why is everyone criticizing it? about it.
0 -
I never said anything about eliminating someone at 5 gens, I just said tunneling in general
3 -
In that case, let's leave that content to another thread. What did you think about the beginning of the thread?
0 -
i was trying to make the point that I was not complaining about the specific thing you'd brought up - I guess I was trying to make the point "am I allowed to have my specific opinion or is that one also problematic?"
0 -
I got it. Anyway, let's get back to the subject. What did you think of the original content of this thread?
0 -
I already mentioned it. if a whole lot of people are complaining about something, i think "this is actually a problem" is a more likely solution than "without seeing these individual people's gameplay, i will assume they all need to improve on these specific things"
9 -
That doesn't address the purpose of this thread. There are specific things to do, so is it really what you need to do? Please state.
If you think there is something written that we should not do, please provide another concrete example of what we should do. That's what this thread is asking for.
0 -
Nightlight is a weather vane at best, it gives a vague sense of which way the wind is blowing. It's useful, but it's not for arguing exact numbers, especially not fractions of a percent. What does Behaviour's own numbers say?
5
