I genuinely want a Dev explanation for the PTR Huntress changes
This is genuinely a "what are they actually thinking" tier change. Played several games VS her on PTR and she doesn't even have to mind game anymore. She can hold hatches and keep chase perfectly fine without any drawbacks anymore with little to no counterplay. Huntress was already strong in regards for her ability to force a 50/50 on pallets by respecting with a hatchet held, her only drawback and COUNTERPLAY was the reduced m/s holding said hatchets allowing survivors to gain distance and being able to break LoS more effectively with the reduced m/s.
And please don't hit this thread with the "she has bad maps so the buff is justified", half the killers in the game have terrible maps, I main Legion and I'd be lying if half the big maps don't make me wanna insta DC, yet I don't see buffs on PTR for them. Not to mention the plethora of Killers in godawful states being left to rot in D- tier while A+ and above killers continue to receive buffs and QoL updates. By this logic we should be buffing ADS on deathslingers speeds to simular levels? Or does that narrative not count because he isn't as popular as Huntress. The double standards and lack of cognitive thought from the Devs on this series of buffs to Huntress is purely laughable. They haven't even shifted power from elsewhere in her kit to compensate like they have with Pig and the RBT times. Completely laughable that this is gonna make live servers, can't wait
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No explanation needed. It’s too much work for them to properly implement better locker positioning on maps and they opted to take the easy way out by buffing her.
There’s also a theory they want her to be more beginner friendly, but I don’t buy it. Players should have to practice and learn how to play their killer of choice. An actual tutorial for each killer (and how to loop guide for survivors) would go a long way to improve the health of this game.
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It's because BHVR looked at their Excel spreadsheet and noticed her killrate is low so let's blindly buff her.
They don't realize she's a a free character that's unlocked by default, as a result lots of beginners play her and make her killrate lower.
In fact, you can explain almost all the killrate placements, by just looking at whether the killer is free:
Because killers like Pig, Freddy and Myers are paid, they have high killrate, and never get any sizeable buff. At the bottom, you have Hillbilly, Doctor, Trickster, Huntress, all got buffed recently, even though they are much better than the paid killers I quoted.
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I'm not a dev, but if I had to guess, I would say that Huntress is being buffed because she's a free Killer that new players are struggling to win with. There are undoubtedly really skilled Huntresses out there, but I believe the majority are newer players who struggle to hit more than one hatchet per reload or are just average players. I think the really god Huntresses, the top-tier ones, won't even notice the buff that much. The 10 hatchet capacity is too much though.
I used to main Huntress but had to drop her because there are more maps where she is useless than maps where she isn't. I believe the increased movement speed while holding a hatchet is reasonable because of these map issues, it will definitely reduce her reliance on specific realms.
I don't really see why this buff is so outrageous, her numbers are being increased to keep up with the current state of maps, as she is one of the most map-dependent killers. Other killers should receive a similar treatment so that you don't immediately feel powerless as soon as you load into a match and see a map that literally counters you.
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Well you're literally explaining how beginners are experiencing skill issues so they should buff an A tier killer - you do realize this, right? It's like saying beginner survivors are struggling, let's buff them because some maps are killer-sided. You're not addressing the main issue of map-dependency with these changes which is what you're arguing it does.
If beginners are struggling, they better learn just like everyone else has to instead of getting things handed to them on a silver platter. If you can't put in the effort, play an easier killer.
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Good news, crisis averted
https://old.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1b8wmgq/developer_update_all_things_wicked_ptb/
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The struggle of beginner players is definitely one of the issues, yes, but Huntress is still heavily map reliant. This buff makes it so 1) Newer players have more learning room (while at the same time, veteran Huntresses won't notice too much of a difference) and 2) Huntress is now less map reliant because you can use your hatchet at more tight loops or on maps where there are a lot of obstructions.
Of course this will make her more reliable across the board, but it's a nice change considering that otherwise, a lot of the maps turn you into a slower m1 killer
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The movement speed was just reverted - rightfully so.
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These motivations are so meaningless.
You can't balance the game around beginners or buffing killers because they're too map dependent while in the meantime you are working on adjusting maps.
At this point just add 10 maze tiles on every map because baby survivors don't know how to loop.
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Only rightfully so because survivors don’t want to have to try against her. Still the most map dependent killer of all. They need to make it to where you can’t get indoor maps if you play her. Oh well back to tunneling and slugging on indoor maps I guess.
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Yeah this is a weird change for sure. I'm not exactly sure what the thought process is aside just looking at the numbers and saying she's under performing. I also kinda find it funny that Pig is being watched closely while these changes are going through.
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Thank goodness. She was about to be SM tier brainless. Don't know why she's getting buffs at all.
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They are forced to try if the Huntress is actually skilled, which you're implying that you aren't. Keep doing whatever you please, just don't use it as an excuse because Huntress didn't receive her so needed buffs.
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I wish I had an actual answer but I can't even make an excuse for them lmao...
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They always gotta watch pig closely 🤣🤣 poor girl is always on dbds watchlist. Any chance they get and bam. 💥 nerfed lol
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The dev responsible for watching her kill rate: 😳
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She didn't need any buffs, but the only egregious thing was the speed while holding a hatchet. With that being reverted, I don't really any issue.
Still odd that they identified her as needing buffs at all, though.
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No need, because the Huntress changes barring the move speed were needed.
Basekit Infantry Belt is such a good QoL and wind up helps with tiles in indoor maps. Overall great change and the devs should do something similar with Dredge if they’re not touching the locker spawns.
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Yeah I made this post like an hour before they released the Post PTR Notes, so fair enough I guess
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Stoooooooooooooopppp!!!!! I’m dead 💀💀💀💀
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Basekit infantry belt is more than "QoL" for sure considering it was one of her best addons. It's not going to be realistic to dodge 7 hatchets basekit.
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I mean she has been hit by every single change in map generation and layout since the beginning with no buffs to help her get around it, invisible collisions, bushes with massive hitboxes that don't make sense, lockers and hooks having smaller models than hitboxes, more trees, more rocks, more bushes, indoor maps, massive locker deadzones like haddonfield and badham ect. Every change they have made to maps has hindered her more and more, giving her a bit more hatchets to play with because locker spreads aren't great and a bit more wind up to better play around the more densely packed maps makes sense after 6.6 years.
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I think that one also needs to be reverted.
One of the things with that separate's Huntress and Trickster is meaningful counterplay. You can dodge a couple Huntress Hatchets and it means something. Making her have 7 Hatchets takes away from that and will make her feel worse to play against.
As an aside, it's a band-aid fix. Locker spawns need to be better for several Killers; they should've just redone those instead.
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I do not understand why Huntress was a priority, when Killers like Legion (who by the way have consistent suggestions given to improve their kit/add-ons) get ignored.
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why does leg need buffs I thought they were an ok middle of the pack spot
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Map and add-on dependent, various aspects of their ability can be improved (quality of life), some add-ons have effects that should be base-kit (Frank's Mix Tape's power pause effect).
Learn more below.
Just remember though, Legion shouldn't see blood in Frenzy because old Legion scary :(
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Tbf its been a while since I read that wall of text so ill just respond to that point by point
6.0m/s is a high base speed but I feel like if you just set the speed to this (no need to ramp since this is already what it ramps to) then played around with duration depending on the map you could create a much more comfortable middle ground for getting a down in frenzy if you play right and survivors don't but not have it be guaranteed on a smaller map, if you could come up with some sort of mechanic that makes duration longer on bigger maps that might be a good change
I think the power gauge currently pauses while vaulting a window or pallet but pausing while kicking a gen or breakable wall would be a niche change that doesn't really fit the power well so maybe just make it something fun like if you attack a generator during feral frenzy it begins regressing and extends your power duration by 1s (net loss of 0.5s and its not a 5% loss due to a kick so its not a regression event)
Changing how it works with oblivious could open up more perk diversity for legion, usable perk wise hysteria and plaything would be kind of nutty so this would need to be tested since you can easily find and harass survivors without them being able to hear you coming making tunneling decently stronger since legions detection is stronger and his potential to double back and fatigue on a survivor who doesn't expect it.
No reason to hide blood during feral frenzy because if you are going for a hit on an injured survivor the reward is much less so making it easier makes sense. Legion having fatigue like nurse makes no sense a normal cooldown seems fine.
Changing legions movement speed after frenzy to be 2.3m/s and ramping up to be 4.6m/s means on average during the fatigue animation the legion will move at 3.45m/s and the survivor will gain... 1.5m, yeah this one isn't way too balanced since distance wise unless they have something within 12m of where you ended your frenzy and use it immediately they go down since you lunge right after it ends and hit them. So this one is probably way too overturned.
Addon changes aren't bad / are already in the game but recharging power on breaking a pallet / wall is kind of the direct upgrade to recharging power on a stun since you can use it in a similar way so maybe something like decreasing stun recovery while in frenzy by like 33% (not stacking because it would be silly with enduring) the only reason I say this is because I think it would be interesting of the mixtape addons had more synergy with each other because you know legion, group of people who kill together and the fact people might stack more of the addons that change their music tracks
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I liked your pallet stun add-on suggestion! I've added it to the post. As for the cool-down changes, I would like their full movement speed to begin being restored at approximately 2.7 seconds (full duration lasts 3 seconds). So for the majority of the cool-down they will be moving below your noticed speed.
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My personal takeaway has been that it's less about directly buffing Huntress and more about reducing add-on reliance/increasing add-on variety.
The vast majority of Killer updates this time take the most used/'required' add-ons and making them partially basekit. Doctor got Discipline and range, Demogorgon got Shred cooldown, Huntress got max ammo and wind up speed.
Putting these add-ons into the basekit seem to be intended to allow players to try a wider range of add-ons by making it so they don't feel forced too use X and Y just to have a chance.
Design philosophy lately also seems to revolve around encouraging Killers to use their power as much as they can. This update's changes aside, Hillbilly's rework literally flipped the script by turning overuse of his chainsaw into a benefit than a hindrance while Trapper's last rework made Coffee Grounds basekit and made it easier to collect traps around the map and the failed Pyramid Head buff encouraged more use of Punishment of the Damned.
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Thank you for the addon consideration but I still have an issue with the movement speed part
The problem with changing the fatigue speed is just the math behind it, if you make it ramp linearly from 2.3m/s to 4.6m/s during that 2.7s the same math still applies the average speed would be 3.45m/s during that 2.7s (aka while you might be moving 2.3m/s for ~0.1s 2.4m/s for ~0.1s ect the average speed still ends up being 3.45m/s once you average it all out) meaning a survivor would only gain 1.5m during your fatigue slowdown and then during that last 0.3s end up 1.3m away before you can swing, while it might make the power more fluid it just ends up creating a different gameplay loop / killer instead of it being a quality of life, since one of the best ways to play would be cancel on top of a survivor and if they aren't on a pallet or at a window you instantly down them as opposed to gaining ~6m like current fatigue does considerably changing the killer because a ~11s window to react (fatigue time + time to catch back up) becomes more like a ~4s window to react now of course this doesn't count anywhere they might travel with a speed burst or while you catch up because things get even more complicated there.
If you make it ramp exponentially I got no clue how to do that in simple text based math but maybe it ends up being right but it might be hard to get your point across to other forums users if you give them the y=~x^2+2.3 (0,2.3) to (2.7, 4.6)
A better change for it would just be to reduce fatigue time since you are just back to 4.6m/s faster or increase the movement speed while in fatigue directly rather than creating a ramping speed if you want to have solid numbers to rely on for how much of a buff you think it needs.
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That... Actually does make a lot of sense, now that I think about it. Even the Sadako rework was an improved version of her old kit (hit or miss depending on how you see it) with part of Reiko's Watch being basekit as well.
That said, I do wonder if survivor side needs more tuning if all the killers end up getting these basekit changes to their kits.
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I think that's pretty fair! I'll adjust the speed during the cool-down :)
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I would be very surprised if all the buffs on the PTB make it to live servers. But either way, I am honestly not sure why they decided to buff Huntress anyway and even Huntress main friends viewed this as a bit of a '#########... why?' decision
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Yeah I follow your videos and pop in your Twitch chat often and idk why your feedback for Legion is ignored so much of the time. The killer is so desperately in need of changes and QoL tweaks. LIke Frank's Mixtape being somewhat basekit would be a nice change, and I have no idea to this day why PoB and scratchmarks can't be seen in Frenzy when Spirit has all of these features visible in her power (granted she can't physically see the survivor but still). It say's a lot when Legions best build is his BFFs endgame build, which even then relies on NWO to be stacked and NoED to not be found immediately. IMO he's slowly slipping into Freddy/Myers tier of forgotten and left behind with new killer and rework power creep.
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Huntress has a worse kill rate, and was nerfed by the map changes (increased amount of clutter) way more than Legion.
Also, Legion's rush M2 has downsides because it has full unrestricted mobility.
Spirit doesn't have the same downsides as Legion specifically because survivors are invisible when Spirit is phasing. That's a huge downside. And killers like Blight and Oni don't have the same downsides as Legion because they have restricted mobility with their rushing powers.
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Not trying to disclaim your points or anything as what you're saying holds validity, but I think basekit free killers like Billy, Huntress, Wraith etc have lower kill rates due to new players picking them up and naturally skewering the statistics due to them naturally not being skilled at the game. BHVR need to look more in depth at statistics rather than pulling up "killrates low = buff" stats. It's the same gripe I have with Riot and balancing League, the devs seem stuck in a cycle of "see low/high WR, buff/nerf as appropriate"
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The giant map changes, where way more clutter was added to the maps, which often breaks line of sight, really did affect Huntress a lot. It doesn't matter if she's a free killer, she still got a big performance hit from the map changes.
The map changes are the same reason why Billy and Trickster got buffs, because they were also largely affected by the increased clutter.
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The fact that it's possible for her to hold up to 10 axes is just too much. Dodging them used to be rewarding, now I've to do it 10 x?
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You don’t have to try at all at high wall loops of small rock loops. Just hold W and force the m1. If they ready the hatchet you keep holding W and get an extra 3 loops because she’s 110.
Post edited by Rizzo on0
