what do you think about ´´Strenght in Shadows´´?

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RFSa09
RFSa09 Member Posts: 609
edited March 7 in General Discussions

for me, it literally looks like old boon circle of healing (edit: in healing speed at least) , but we´ll see in the future

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  • OneGoodBoyDemo
    OneGoodBoyDemo Member Posts: 411
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    Let's wait and see how It goes. I'm worried but it's a basement perk soo...

  • RFSa09
    RFSa09 Member Posts: 609
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    good points too, but i think it works on the stairs no? i couldn´t play the ptb

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,010
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    It does work on the stairs unless that got changed from the ptb. But you would be easier to spot by a patrolling killer.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 1,796
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    it a solid perk now but i wouldn't use shadows because it still kinda situational. It be decently strong on some maps when the basement spawn in main building. It usually not that hard to shift w to main building when it in the center of most maps.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 6,568
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    Not sure, I felt like it was already pretty good on the PTB and didn't feel that it needed a buff. While basement is a bad place to get caught in if you do actually get caught, most of the time killers don't actually check in there unless they have a very good reason to believe someone is actually there. You also have enough time to react to a terror radius and get away from the basement if you actually think the killer is coming there, since you don't need to go that far into the basement to use it, only about halfway down the steps. I don't think it's actually that risky to use unless it's a stealth killer.

    We'll see next week though, though it might be weaker at first because I think for the first few days at least a few killers will start using Territorial Imperative just to counter the new perks.

  • humanbeing1704
    humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 8,770
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    Decent perk once people stop checking the basement for perks

    I give it 3 weeks before it’s usable in normal gameplay

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,156
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    Strong on the PTB, stronger now, but probably not unfair.

    People kinda overhype the travel time and risk of being in the basement, but they are still limiting factors, so I think it'll stay on the fair side for now. Running it with Botany on a map that doesn't completely screw you over basement wise (like Badham, for instance) would be genuinely strong.

    Definitely gonna use it myself... but I might wait a bit until killers stop pre-emptively bringing Territorial Imperative, lol.

    Definitely not as broken as old CoH, though, not even slightly. It only works for you and you don't choose the spot on the map it works for, on top of not boosting medkits (the actually broken thing about old CoH).

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,444
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    circle but as killer you always know where it is and everyone will have to have the perk equipped. not very close, excited to see how the perk does.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 469
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    I think it's a strong perk, stronger than botany/self-care. You can still run it with botany for turbo heals but you don't have to and it frees up a perk slot which is also extremely useful.

    I am generally of the belief basement isn't all that dangerous so I don't get the hand wringing about that pert of it.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,010
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    The basement is a double edge sword.

    While the killer generally won't check basement without a good reason, getting caught in the basement injured is a free hook and basement hooks can be difficult for a survivor team to deal with especially against certain killers.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    It's good perk but it's only for one survivor. So unlike CoH, all survivors needs to run it.

    Plus you can't use it everywhere, so you need to run to basement which is very dangerous place to be when you are injured.

    So i think this perk is fine as it is. I probably will use with Botany for faster healing but this 2 perks slots. So i guess that's fair.

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
    edited March 7
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    Its still a noobtrap. Getting a chapter with two noobtraps and a masterpiece of a situational perk. Great job again.

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 469
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    I do get that I just don't think "this could lead to a really bad scenario...that will barely ever happen" is much of a knock against the perk.

    Especially if you're smart and only go do it when someone else is being chased or the killer has to apply gen pressure and can't stop patrolling then you've just negated that downside completely.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,836
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    It's good if survivors use it as back up or last resort. New players or those who refuse to do anything while injured will run back and forth wasting time for the team. If I bring it, it'll be used late game when there's no one around to heal me. If the Killer knows you have it then they'll know where to look for you later so best to be discreet and not abuse it.

  • Shaddoll_Serpent
    Shaddoll_Serpent Member Posts: 138
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    It's good, didn't really need a buff tbh, but as scary as it may sound in theory, I don't think it'll be too crazy in practice.

    DETAILED EXPLANATION:

    So it's commonly compared to CoH since it's the same style of "Run to a certain side of the map to be able to heal yourself", but aside from the obvious that only the user of the perk gets that ability, let me also just point out:

    -Basement's a way smaller zone and area than CoH, so it's a little more of a time commitment to get to use this ability.

    -It's way more RNG since with CoH survivor's had complete control over where it could go and could put the Boon in spots killers would never go to while you cannot choose your healing zone with SiS, meaning in some scenarios you may be unable to actually go over to the basement in heal. (Imagine if the killer has a 3 gen with the basement on that side of the map as well, or they're playing a basement build.)

    -It's not a jack-of-all-trades deal, since it doesn't boost medkit healing speeds or allow people who group up in the area to heal each other faster.

    -It's a little high risk high reward; even though it's pretty unlikely the killer will ever just happen to walk down to the basement and find you healing there, aura reading perks do exist which not only tell the killer that you're down there in the current moment, but will let them know that you have the perk, and allow them to play with it in mind accordingly. General game sense can also help counter this perk. If I see one survivor constantly healing throughout the match in a reasonable amount of time with no medkit, I might assume that they have this perk equipped, especially if I last saw them near whatever building has basement in it, and might investigate near basement before or after they complete another heal. There's also certain killer powers that will help against potential SiS healers. Imagine sneaking down there with GF or Wraith or leaving a Hag trap or Singularity pod to punish those users.

    Last point I'll make as well is that I still think a medkit would probably be better than this perk since you can heal anywhere anytime with it, and they have really good addons to help you with both heals and in chase. So I feel like most players will probably just stick to medkits since there's not really any items that are much better than those, and not using SiS allows you to devote your perk slot to something that'd be more impactful for survival.

    So like I said before, Strength in Shadows is a great perk and easily Sable's best one, and while I did feel somewhat concerned about it when they first revealed it a couple weeks ago and again after I saw the buff, I don't think it'll actually be that bad due to the reasons I stated above.

  • Ohyakno
    Ohyakno Member Posts: 586
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    Botany is just a really really good perk in general. Also no one runs nurses calling. I don't think I saw it once in 2023.

  • Starrseed
    Starrseed Member Posts: 1,755
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    Its not a bad perk but it is kinda risky.

    But other then coh it will.never become a problem cause if all sirvs start too run it and heal all the time the killer will just start running terretorial and quickly no on wants to Touch that perk again

  • cheetocultleader
    cheetocultleader Member Posts: 1,259
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    Yeah that. Maybe a bit longer but eventually it'll be decent enough to consider running, but won't beat out the likes of Inner Strength or just taking a med kit.

  • Hex_Ignored
    Hex_Ignored Member Posts: 1,634
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    It's not a bad perk but it is kinda map and rng dependent. If basement spawns in a bad area, like for example Ormond main building where the killer will probably walk by quite often, then it's extremely risky to sit injured and moaning in the basement, on the other hand if basement spawns in Ormond shack and survivors finish the shack gen, healing in basement becomes a bit safer, especially if the killer isn't running any aura reading, but you have to factor in the time it will take a survivor to potentially run across the entire map.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 15,542
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    IMO it is worse than Self Care.

    I think both are bad, but Strength in Shadows is worse, simply because you cannot use it everywhere like Self Care. It might be faster, but depending on the Travel Time, it might end up slower. Plus, it is just more risky.

  • Spirit_IsTheBest
    Spirit_IsTheBest Member Posts: 716
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    It’s strong, but risky. I feel that it’s going to be useful in solo queue though from the aura reading.

  • MrPenguin
    MrPenguin Member Posts: 2,362
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    It will be pretty map dependent.

    On some maps the basements is pretty close most of the time.

    But on others or certain spawns it can be on the other corner of the map.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
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    I have the same feeling about it. it’s a more situational, riskier Selfcare (which itself isn’t a stellar perk). I’d rather just run Selfcare + Botany and have the freedom to heal in safer places.

  • Yippiekiyah
    Yippiekiyah Member Posts: 449
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    I never thought i'd see the day Territorial Imperative would be good.

  • jonifire
    jonifire Member Posts: 1,437
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    It‘s cool that they buffed it. 70% makes it worth it for me.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,312
    edited March 8
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    I lean towards it being weak side, not that bad though. However self healing can never be “good” for the health of the game. So any self healing needs to be on the weak side unfortunately. You take things like this for the convenience, not the efficiency basically.

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 898
    edited March 10
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    Absolutely.

    For the pure time-to-heal aspect, it has to be kept in mind that you not only have the travel time to basement, but also back from basement to wherever it is you actually need to be. A simple example being that you're close to a gen, have to leave it to heal in basement, and then run back to that gen. With Self-Care you could have just stayed at the gen to heal. Strength In Shadows allows you to heal in ~23 seconds, Self-Care in ~46. That means in any case where traversing to and from basement took at least 11.5s respectively, SC is better even when purely looking at time. Sure sometimes you are already around basement or have reasons to be there (someone being hooked in there, a gen being there), but that is far from reliable, and if you choose to only heal at times where you have reason to be around basement to begin with, you are obviously forgoing the benefits of being able to heal at any time. This is also ignoring that traversing the map injured is risky, and you regularly may well have to do so carefully to try and avoid the killer, which takes additional time.

    Then there is the fact that positional play is crucial, being able to be at the right place at the right time can make or break rounds. SC affords its user the ability to heal wherever and whenever they need it or deem it beneficial. How important this is is obvious when you just think of the fact that it may simply not be possible to traverse the map and heal in basement and get back to where you need to be because the place you need to be is a hook between you and the basement that the killer is guarding and you can obviously only attempt to contest if you are healthy. Or a hook in basement itself. Or if the chase is around basement. Or if basement is on the other side of the map and the hook timer simply doesn't allow for you to make it there and back.

    And finally there are the associated, significant risks of being around and let alone in basement while injured. Where SC allows you to heal anywhere, meaning you can regularly pick completely safe spots that are either so far out of the way or simply right at safe windows and pallets such that the killer cannot easily or at all get the jump on you even if they have Nurse's Calling or the like, SIS puts you in the most vulnerable place to be caught out in, where you going down can literally be game-deciding.

    I have to agree that SIS is strictly and significantly worse than SC, and SC already is not the greatest of perks. Mind you, I for one don't subscribe to this silly idea that SC is a "killer perk", it is only 14 seconds longer than the 16 * 2 seconds an altruistic heal would take, which can often be worth it given the fact that you can heal anywhere and at any time and without having to have a teammate that also has to spend time going with you and back again. But I don't think SC is regularly worth the perk slot over other perks, not least when considering the possibility of bringing a med-kit and the existence of Mangled. I think it is a completely sensible choice in the hands of a good and smart player that knows when and where it is beneficial to heal and how to leverage health states, especially if they pair it with Botany or Desperate Measures or even Hyperfocus, but I also don't think it is among the best of choices. So SIS being worse means it's basically a gimmicky "fun" perk serious players will never use, or only if they are feeling frisky.

    They could legitimately make this 100% healing speed and have it reveal the killer's aura to its user for as long as they're in basement and it still wouldn't be a prevalently used perk. Far from still, most likely.

    Post edited by zarr on
  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,239
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    I think it's a good soloQ perk. Whenever I'm injured and unable to find teammates to heal, I'll tend to rummage through chests hoping for a medkit, including the one in the basement. So a perk that just lets me go to the basement to heal is cutting the middle-man. I will have to give it some time first, though, because 3 new basement perks means everyone, killer included, is going to be in the basement for the first month of the game. It'll get better later on. I think it's Sable's best perk.