Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
survivors hate tunneling but the gens go so fast so what choice is there? even with slowdown.
i have a 50 - 60 second chase and 2 gens pop. 3 gens left with 1 hook. if i play nice its clearly a foolish choice, so in order to win i have totunnel, and survivors act like i committed this great sin, killer is literally against time. and if i chase someone else they flashlight rescue them,obviously the survivors feel great on pulling off a save but the killer is way behind schedule and becomes frustrated for being robbed. so why cant survivors ingrain that into their heads?
they say the tunneled survivor doesnt play, what does that mean? theyre running from the killer and clearly playing.as opposed to what? doing a gen? the generators need a rework because holding m2 is also boring, id say you have to look for parts scattered around the map in order to repair the gens such as gears , gasoline, etc, and reduce the time for gens, that would at least gives killers more time and spot survivors more often. but streamers shouldnt publicly shame killer players for tunneling, because even they do it too.
Comments
-
I rarely ever tunnel but I also play an aggro af build, currently running Corrupt, Grim Embrace, Ultimate Weapon, Infectious Fright.
We start with most gens blocked and opening a locker and finding everyone, first hook on the most out of position person and blocking all the gens and opening a locker and doing it all again with Infectious Fright just warning us against flashies or sabo players, ultimate weapon is much better than bbq in this build because the screams are better for identifying survivors needed to complete our grim embrace. In this way gens are constantly blocked while survivors are panicked by constant screaming and blindness. It's meant to put a lot of pressure on them right from the beginning of the game and it usually works most of my games lately I win at 4 gens remaining.
I'm not telling you to copy my build or anything I'm just saying look at your build and ask yourself how it's putting pressure on the survivors cuz I'll be honest I see people run these pain res/pop/dms/grim builds and they don't really put pressure on survivors at all just slow the game down a bunch which is fine but if your chases take a long time you're just losing in slow motion and not actually taking advantage of the time they buy you.
I say forget what you think the meta is and pick a killer and build with purpose choosing how you're gonna pressure survivors to not do gens because that's the real secret to winning as a killer it's not stalling the game to take 20 minutes or tunneling one person and hope they don't run you for so long the gens get done I mean that can work but it's lazy and feels like playing to not lose rather than playing to win to me.
2 -
If the Survivor and Killer are all of the same strength, Survivors won't let you tunnel easily, and even if you can, you'll usually lose. If you can win by tunneling, there must be some kind of big mistake on the survivor's part, so don't worry about it and just dig a tunnel.
Rather, the problem is when there are people at a level who won't make the tunnel easier, and when you are in a situation where you will lose if you dig a tunnel. In this case, the important thing is to reduce the amount of work your opponent has to do by knocking down one person and then going to interfere with the other person's gen. Due to repeated changes in this game, hooking survivors has become extremely weak. So, instead of hanging it too easily, try to increase the suppression force and sabotage the generator.
Tunneling is a tactic, so you can do it as much as you like. Anyway, the developer will install an anti-tunnel system after receiving complaints, so that's all there is to it.
5 -
I should wait for a teammate to die before I touch Gen.
21 -
And I guess that is the reason you're in a rank that tunnel is a problem.
1 -
Nobody's telling you to do so, but do as you wish. I'd recommend only waiting till the first hook, until first death seems kinda extreme.
Though personally I think you shouldn't handicap yourself like that. "Do not do x at 5gens/0hooks/0kills" is such a ridiculous demand if aimed at the opponent or even imposed on yourself.
2 -
Same to most killers tunneling so hard they're in an MMR that even tunneling not able to cover their problem.
Killers dont tunnel because its effective against 10% of good survivors, they tunnel because it work against the rest 90% of weak and average teams.
33 -
No.
killer tunnel because it is meta,as same as why you as a survivors would want to tunnel gen.
oh sorry I forget you don't, you only do gen after your teammate died.
3 -
Have you ever considered that you might need to improve? 50-60 seconds chases are not good. Especially if we consider that usually people over- or underestimate the time they take. E.g. Survivors think their chases were longer than they were and Killers think their chases were shorter than they were.
And well, losing 2-3 Gens for 1 Hook is pretty normal and should not really mean anything. It is just natural that the first Gens are the fastest, but Gens take longer the more the game progresses. And the last Gen can take longer than all 4 Gens before combined.
Losing a few Gens early is not really a good argument.
20 -
i have a 50 - 60 second chase and 2 gens pop. 3 gens left with 1 hook.
Okay. And?
Where did the match end up?
Killers need to stop obsessing over the first, second and even third gen. Loads of games rush into the first three gens and then get completely stuck with the second-to-last or final gen. The killer has a weak start. Survivors fall off once the ball gets rolling. The speed of gens during your first chase is not indicative of the game's pacing after the first hook, those two are like night and day.
But unless you stop tunnelling, you'll never figure out how much you actually really 'need' tunnelling.
they say the tunneled survivor doesnt play, what does that mean? theyre running from the killer and clearly playing.as opposed to what?
Survivors have four emblems: Lightbringer, Unbroken, Benevolent and Evader. Unbroken is pretty much only awarded for winning the game, so that one is irrelevant, but Benevolent and Lightbringer are two aspects of survivor gameplay that a tunnelled survivor will not have any chance to engage in. Unlike killers, survivors have a well developed gameplay loop, where the intent is for survivors to cycle from sitting on gens, to helping allies, to taking chases. Tunnelling deletes this gameplay loop and replaces it for everyone with only one of the three components.
17 -
50-60 sec is not good?
Do you know that even if survivor only run forward it would still takes the killer 40sec to catch up a 24m(gain by injured speed boost) distance?
How poor should the survivors play to make the 50-60 sec chase is "not good" for killer ?
5 -
On second thought. If Im healthy, standing next to a Gen, and you're chasing a teammate. What should I do?
4 -
How does one tunnel a generator?
Are there other objectives survivors can and should always be doing?
With killer, I can pick one out of four survivors to chase, as a survivor all I can do is a generator if folks are healed up, etc.
6 -
- Do that gen
- Help your teammate
- Split your attention evenly among the 4 nearest gens.
The 3rd choice btw is what survs tell killers to do and wouldnt it be unfair to choose the other smarter choices. No pressure. Survs should do as they preach rught?
I'd predict most survs choose 1 or 2.
4 -
You could split your attention among multiple gens you dont know the progress and location of instead of focusing that single gen.
3 -
Given 90sec of gameplay
Say killers get 2 hooks in 90sec. Either 2 hooks on Dwight, or 1 on Dwight and 1 on Meg. Killer still get progression.
For survivors, its either
- You finish 1 Gen
- Or you do 15sec of Gen1 ; spend 15sec running to Gen2 then do 15sec of Gen2 ; spend 15sec running to Gen3 then do 15sec of Gen3 ; spend 15sec running to Gen4. The total progression you made is 45sec spread out to Gen1 Gen2 Gen3 that Gen1 and Gen2 already kicked and regressed to zero.
The comparison is fail on so many level.
The thing you're try to preach is Killers should only injure survivors but never down and hook. And survivors dont ask killer to do that.
4 -
Well, to be fair, you can't run 50-60 seconds in a straight line on any map. So there are always possibilities for them to mess up or the kill to cut them off somewhere.
Not arguing that 2-3 gens gone at 1 hook isn't unhealthy as heck.
From a psychological pov it's bonkers that killer are expected to play with the stressful pressure of survivor having done 60% of their progress (on paper) while they are at a 12th of their own.
It's always a mental uphill battle starting on the back foot for the killer.
1 -
Just like killer have 4 survivors.
You have 7 Gens which is even more than 4.
You might say "why should I Leave the unfinished gen I am working on to do the other? It doesn't make any sense "
Yeah exactly, why should I leave?
6 -
Losing 2 gens for the first chase is completely normal, expecially if you are not running Corrupt, with low level survivors you can expect 1 gen to be popped.
The game is designed to proceed in this way because at the start of the trial every survivor is healthy and doing gens is the only task while the map is full of resources. As the game progresses things change, with the killer gaining more and more power and the survivors tending to lose it.
What the killers don't seem to understand yet, is that if the survivors at the start of the match don't complete at least 1 gen / 1.5 gens, or even 2 at higher levels, the match quickly decays in their favour, because they've lost their momentum given by the "boost" at the start of the match, which is why usually if a guy dies at 5 gens, especially if in SoloQ, the match is already virtually closed, as performing a come-back will be extremely complicated.
6 -
Let's say there're 2 gens close to you, one is 0% the other on 90% and the killer isn't in the area.
Which one are you gonna do? Can't we just except that both sides tunnel their objectives?
Even harder when you put MMR in make that win condition pretty clear - kills over hooks. Don't blame the players!
3 -
So a 50-60 second chase, was you put it, is not good. Given that you also need to locate a survivor to even start chase, then down, and hook the survivor at the end you're looking at around 90 seconds between game start and first hook state.
What do you think the other 3 survivors are supposed to do during this 90 second window? Why is there some killer expectation that survivors should be forced to be afk at any point in the game? (It's partially the metas of Eruption and now GE where perks just force survivors to be afk, tbh)
There is no way, no perk, no strategy, no item or add-on that allows survivors to snowball their objective later in the game. None. If they finish any gens early, the remaining gens are always harder to complete after the killer builds pressure (hooks, downs, or even injuries), when the map resources are being used up by the match going longer, and when the playable area gets smaller with fewer gens to choose from. It's completely impossible for survivors to go from 0 gen progress to all gens finished in a 60 second window.
The killer, on the other hand, can snowball from 0 objective progress (4 healthy survivors) to a 4k in a matter of seconds, especially with perks or their power helping them, and this can happen at any point in the game. Especially with perks like NOED, it can even happen after all the gens are *done* (how many gens get done when the survivors are all dead? It's zero, the answer is zero). One series of mistakes can lead to a 0 hook match being 4 slugs on the ground, or just outright killing survivors without hooks in some cases.
Doing gens is the literal only response to tunneling. It's all survivors can do to try and win, and avoiding the objective (or expecting them to) is throwing the game.
Tunneling is not a response to 'gen rushing' and never has been, it's an excuse. It's specifically an excuse by a large number of killers who have used every advantage possible to inflate their MMR to the point that they are up against survivors who are better at the game than they are.
'Gen rush' is the only response you can possibly have to tunneling. By the time you wait and see if the killer is tunneling after first hook it's too late to start working on gens, the games over at that point. It's also not 'rushing' if they start on gens late.
You can always, always switch to tunneling as killer. At any point.
Tunneling isn't a response to gen rushing. It's certainly not the only reason killers tunnel (it's easy and efficient, hard to counter, they feel like ruining someone's match, or they aren't skilled enough at the game to play any other way). Gen rushing is the only play against tunneling.
9 -
Dont remember telling killers not to kill. I'm saying survivors shouldnt demand killers to spread their focus if theyre unwilling to do so themselves.
Am I right to assume youre saying that it's more effective to stay on the same gen and finish it as soon as possible compared to searching other generators and doing them at the same time?
... Thats exactly tunneling.
I dont even demand survivors to shoot themselves in the foot by not focusing on a gen at a time. But they shouldnt demand the killer to play worse, innefficient, "considerate of their fun", if they've internalised the same strategy they blame killers for as "normal" gameplay.
3 -
In the current environment, if you complete 3 gens before getting 1 hook, the killer has no chance of winning. From there, as long as one survivor touches the generator, gen powered is inevitable. The exception is unless top tier killer (in which case 3 gen completion won't happen) or your previous chases have turned key areas of the map into a scorched wasteland of pallets.
It would be fine if all the survivors wanted to skip the generator and rescue the survivors.
0 -
So if 3 gens got done before 1 hook and the map isn't lacking pallets, what was the killer doing during all that time?
We've also got to disagree on the no chance of winning but on general principles.
8 -
I understand killers who tunnel when they're losing gens. It's the ones who hard tunnel at five gens that I find irritating. It's usually strong killers too like Nurses, Blights, Spirits etc in my experience.
3 -
This is because M1 Killers who chase good Survivors in the opening stages will always waste a certain amount of time. Therefore, among excellent players, the M1 killer is generally considered to be at a disadvantage.
When players who are good at each other come together, it becomes a match like that.
That's why a gen suppression perk is essential, and you can't chase down survivors. If killer chase one survivor, will definitely complete 5 gen, need wait patiently until create a good situation to chase after one person.
2 -
That doesn't answer the question. At all. Not talking about advantages or lack of, or how "good" come together, we're asking what was the killer doing during the 90-270ish seconds.
If the killer is actually trying to kill survivors then at minimum a decent number of pallets should be burnt, people hurt, or combination there of. If not, then we agree with Aven_Fallen's assessment that there needs to be improvement on the killers part.
8 -
Citation needed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcv_kApsE0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx-0f_ymFuU&t=357s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGpKN0KeZt8
These are just some of the few recentish examples I could find.
Like, it's not easy obviously but a good player can absolutely snowball as killer and comeback from pretty dire circumstances. You seem to forget that the player playing the killer does have skill impression and can effect the outcome.
You may need to work on your own personal skills and/or mindset if you haven't noticed this.
2 -
I've played plenty of games where 2 gens popped around when I get first hook, but even with spreading pressure and not tunneling I was able to get a 10-11 hook 3k with only 1 more gen popping. I think a lot of people think assume that 2 gens done at first hook == "I have to tunnel to win" and therefore only ever try that strat so they have little to no point of reference
That, or I'm just good at forcing map resources and that leads to fast subsequent downs whereas less experienced killer players are having 2-gen first downs without getting most of the good pallets out of the way. Maybe both!
4 -
270 seconds! ? Where did that number come from? 3gen will be completed in 120 seconds at most.
To do this, the chase will only take about a minute, subtracting the killer's search time and the time it takes to reach the hook. In the opening, all the pallets are present, so Survivors use them strategically and use them in combination with windows to be frugal. This is quite possible if you know how to derive the loops from each other.
So, as a killer, the theory is to let it use about 2 pallets and then change the target, but if everyone is a good survivor, after consuming a certain amount of pallets and finally knocking it down, several gen completes. From this point on, the killer can only win if the killer doesn't make a mistake and the survivor makes a mistake, so it is said that M1 cannot win against an opponent of the same rank. Of course, it is different if there is a disparity.
Yes, that's why it exists because there is a skill disparity between killer and survivors. Or simply by luck. Or maybe someone just accidentally made a mistake.
0 -
im afraid of you but then again i get the ability to constant 4k with an aura build on dredge
0 -
One of these matches is quite literally a comp matchup from a tournament. To blame it on "skill disparity", "a mistake", or "luck" instead of actually acknowledging the skill on the killer's part (or even the survivors) is so dismissive, I find it downright insulting.
In the future, if you want people to have actual discussions or considerations with you, you may need to check your bias and possibly admit you were wrong or, at the very least, were exaggerating for emotional effect. Otherwise, it's kind of pointless to even respond.
5 -
I just got home and watched a little bit of the video you suggested.
First, Ada wastes the first pallet, the cabin pallet, and immediately knocks over the subsequent heavy equipment pallets. All of them should be able to buy time for more than one loop, but they clearly consume a lot of palette. With this, it is natural that the second half palette is insufficient. It's an obvious mistake.
Regarding the next Oni match, Feng Ming is taking over Chase, so why do the other survivors heal without opening the gate? Every doing the wrong thing right now. This is also clearly a mistake.
As for Ghostface at the end, Hadi was the first to bravely complete the gen (great!) and escape, which was good, but then he made a mistake in waiting in the wrong place near the pallet. If you're going to wait on a pallet, you should be on the outside, and originally you should have peeked through the window after passing through the window to see how Ghostface would come. If I had watched, I would have probably gone around the L-shaped wall one more time. This is just to say that there is room for improvement, but it is not perfect.
In this way, each survivors mistake accumulates until the killer finally wins. I was especially surprised that the gate wasn't opened during the Oni game. This is a mistake you should never make! Ada is using up a lot of pallets probably because she doesn't have confidence in Chase, but it's still better that way.
1 -
First of all, for each video you introduced, I mentioned about 1 minute after it was played. If you think what I say is unfair, that's fine.
0 -
1: one person doing 3 gens will take is 270. The absolute minimum of survivors popping 3 gens is 90. Not taking into account anything else like gen search time, the killer kicking ppl off gens, etc. Therefore 90-270. Also surprisingly each match is different. We have had games where popping 3 gens takes longer than 270 due to various factors and choices (ex: we want to break that 3 gen the killer is guarding and leave the others alone to focus on that). Theres few absolutes in this game, gens popping at a certain point isn't one.
2: Assuming both sides are relatively equal in skill and brains, even the most frugal would still be burning some pallets or getting hit. Theory also doesn't live to practicality in a few ways. During chase should the killer realize it's going to be a time sink they can break off, if during chase they see a survivor working they can swap targets then and there, the freaking map itself can cause headaches for either side, and the like. Killers powers also affect this as GF is effectively an m1 (going by our definition, if you got a specific definition you need to tell) but can stealth at will and has access to an instant down (yes even good survivors will occasionally get downed by this despite what everyones thinking) causing psychological warfare naturally. Usually survivors are human, and no human is perfect. Theory is all well and nice but putting it into practice isn't likely and what is said (m1 can't win against an opponent of the same "rank") and what happens is different.
Edit: things came up and accidentally hit post instead of save
1 -
Tunnelling is part of the game. Losing isn't fun. Survivors don't like being tunneled, they don't like losing. Simple as that.
Win how you want to, lose how you want to.
2 -
Killers tunnel because it makes the game easier not because they have to most of the time. Tunneling gens doesn’t exist btw
3 -
My premise is
1. Survivors will begin to complete the generator within the first 20 seconds. I can roughly tell where the generator is from the map name, so it will only take that long. Therefore, normally 2 to 3 gens are completed in 120 seconds.
2. If the killer is M1, the survivor first moves in advance so as not to receive an easy hit (although it can't be helped if there is an accident) and starts the loop in the correct position. In a way that I also mentioned in other people's videos. Against people who can do this, the killer will not be able to land a hit unless the feint is done well, and the feint is also a wasteful movement, so if it fails, the survivor will fly into the window and buy more time. The frequency with which pallets are consumed is significantly different between those who know the basics of these loops and those who do not. Therefore, my premise is the former. On average, it takes about 30 seconds for a killer to deal a single hit to a survivor who can perform these actions. After that, the survivor's options are to buy enough time and down, or to down using a pallet that can be used in that chase (there is a theory as to whether it is okay to use or not, and anyone follow it). Their average will be roughly 20 to 30 seconds. In total, it takes about 1 minute to complete, and the killer consumes about 80 to 120 seconds, including the initial search time and the time to carry the survivor to the hook. In other words, within the margin of error, 2 to 3 generators can be completed in 120 seconds. The pallets are not wasted by survivor, and the necessary areas are lefted some pallets.
0 -
Stop repairing a generator when its 50%, go start another one
4 -
1: you asked where we got that number. We answered and the edited version (stupid panic button) of that post explains how using absolutes isn't workable.
2: we're getting the feeling your basing everything off of theories and not practice. As previously mentioned, killer powers, perks, and human nature are variables needed to be considered (the likes of spirit and pig come to mind). Would the survivor move in advance if they don't see it coming? Would they want to finish that gen, hit be damned? Can the killer outplay the survivor at whatever they're at? There's no perfection, nor set in stone "they will do this and this is how it's going to be". Hell that becomes a weakness to us as predictable becomes easy prey no matter who we are. [He's getting side tracked at this point] We also don't really believe in the average because of said variables.
We don't deny that 3 gens can be completed in the time of a hook but if survivors get hurt and pallets get burned, then it's not a instant win for survivors like you keep framing it as. Hell, it still wouldn't be as things swing the game till survivors are out or dead.
We don't know what videos your talking about, nor the comments soooo...
3: we just realized that you've still technically didn't answer the question. What was that killer doing during that time?
1 -
Do I miss the point in the comments I made in this reply? All people who call themselves intermediate, even if they are not perfectionists, do something like this.
0 -
Honestly who cares what survivors think? You play for your fun because they play for there’s. If I start losing I start tunneling to force them off gens to come take hits or lose a teammate. If they let them die and stay on gens then that’s their choice. I always tunnel on indoor maps because I play Huntress and I don’t think it’s fair that I’m at an extreme disadvantage for being on that map. So I don’t play nice. Just play how you want and if they cry in egc move on to the next match or turn chat off. Simple.
3 -
See, when you actually point it out what your talking about it lets us know what your talking about without us having to look further back. And as you say (we didn't watch any of those videos) they are making mistakes, that's human error. Even good survivors will have that, even if it's just not to that extent. Meaning any absolute times for this or that fall flat to us.
Yes you also kinda missed our main points. It's not an instant loss if 3 gens pop at 1 hook for m1 killers. If the killer isn't getting pallets or hits within that frame it's on the killer. Human error makes most theories impractical in practice.
And finally yes, you still haven't actually answered the main question. What was the killer doing during that time that they weren't getting hits or pallets?
0 -
Please take a look at the first video. Isn't it a hassle?
Is this your criteria for having a survivor consume a pallet by a killer? So I am not speaking based on this. Survivors who use palettes like this have already lost half of their matches due to skill disparity.
One thing you should never do is use a pallet from the cabin. Since the surrounding generators have not been completed, in this case you should have taken them even if you were injured, and you should have gone to the exit on the other side without using them. In the next scene where he is injured, he is too slow to move beyond his reflexes, and if he had gone towards Pallet when Bright ran, he would have made it in time. This is clearly a move that does not understand the characteristics of Bright.
Do I look intimidating? No, not only me but many genuine survivors make mistakes, but they do not act out of ignorance like this. They don't know the correct answer from the beginning, so it's only natural that they're wrong. It's no shame. The problem is that every are not aware that are wrong.
I explained "theoretically to the extent that it can be practically practiced." If you disagree, try presenting a ``theoretically better course of action.'' You can abuse me, but it doesn't override what I'm saying.
0 -
Thats definitely a skill issue on your end in several ways. First youre under the misconception that losing 2 gens in your first chase is a gameover without tunneling. Its safe not, as long as you have at least average gamesense and dont have to play vs better players. Second, if you get flasglighted often, its a skill issue on your end. Its preventable in several ways. Third its obvious youre biased as you said a killer is "robbed by a flashlight save", but he is just punished for playing poorly in this regard.
And if you think a survivor has much gameplay from being tunnled, what is it? running for another 10s to get downed again, hooked again and probably even proxy-camped too? Great gameplay there.
1 -
You've tricked us into another damn otz video... Yes it's now genuinely a hassle.
Now tell us how citing skill disparity cements the fact that if 3 gens pop the killer (and we're not mistaken, weren't we talking about m1s awhile ago?
If so a bleet video is a horrible example) has no way to come back? Especially when we were talking about equal skilled opponents? We're aware that thing are being detracted.
Again with the absolutes. And again, not in stone. If something needs used in the moment or consequences happen then it should be used, but this is us going off on a tangent.
We're unsure as to this paragraph and while it probably detracts from the answers to the questions we're looking for, we do gotta ask for you to elaborate where this came from before we say something stupid or smart.
First: if it seems like we're trying to abuse you, we apologize as that's not the intention (though being tricked again wasn't pleasant).
Second: we feel the need to untangle everything before we sound like an *** for no reason.
The initial intention was a question of "What is the killer doing during the time 3 gens pop that didn't get either hits or pallets" which is something we feel hasn't been answered, is being avoided or is blended in the rest of everything else that we missed it. It then goes on to how if the killer isn't burning pallets or getting hits in that time frame then it's on the killer. We then explain how theories often don't hold up in practice. Then we go raving about how variables make the times and movements given not the absolutes your portraying them as to us.
Then you pull up the video comments and maybe we lost understanding here because as far as we looked it didn't answer how it's an instant loss like you said at the start "In the current environment, if you complete 3 gens before getting 1 hook, the killer has no chance of winning." Which then goes to this comment. Also this is just us picking but explaining "theoretically to the extent that it can be practically practiced." doesn't really answer the questions, or in a sense that we don't understand, and what the theories you've currently presented us with is more of a "theoretically better course of action.'' rather than one of practice in our eyes.
If we're being prickish please feel free to call us out on it and one of us will tone it down
Gods damn that's a lot of typing...
1 -
quick, 2-question, true-or-false pop quiz for killer players - this may seem a bit rude by means of sarcasm and condescention, but I promise there's a point to it
1) True or False: If a survivor leaves a gen uncompleted, a killer is able to revert all the progress that survivor has done until it's back at 0% progress
2) True or False: If a killer leaves a survivor only partly sacrificed, a survivor is able to reverse all the hook state progress they've taken until they're back at 0 hook states.
Obviously, I don't need to tell you the answer to these two questions, they are rhetorical. I ask them to make the point that as long as survivors have no way of "locking in" gen progress the same way killers can "lock in" hook states (through their own actions - I'm not counting the anti 3-gen mechanic because that depends on the killer playing into your plan of getting the generator regression-blocked), tunneling a survivor and "tunneling a generator" will never be comparable.
5 -
50-60 second chase for both hit is pretty standard. If you are playing an m1 killer and the survivor just shift+w without using pallets, windows, loops or anything and just shift+w to furthest corner of the map it'll take the killer about 60 seconds to down and hook that survivor. Now you have to factor in that the map is full of pallets as this is the first chase, and all it takes is a predrop of 1 or 2 god pallets (every pallet break adds 18 seconds to a chase) and you'd see that it's pretty standard.
Granted this is against m1 killers, but that defines probably over half of the killers in the game at this point, as there are so many anti-loop powers now that survivors don't even bother looping.
Also for context, the devs balance around 45 second chases. So saying your chase lasted 50 seconds is only about 5 seconds longer than what the devs consider an "average" chase.
1 -
While i get your point, #1 isn't as profound as you think it is. Base regression is 1/4th the rate at which survivors progress a gen. So lets say you hit a near complete gen with pain res and a survivor never touches it, it will still take that gen 270 seconds to fully regress. There is a reason every killer runs tons of gen defense, and thats because the "basekit" gen defense numbers are so pitiful you might as well ignore them completely.
1 -
On the one hand, yes you are right that base progression is much more powerful than base regression. On the other hand that's an entirely different conversation than the one comparing tunneling survivors to "tunneling gens".
We can talk about how killer regression isn't enough to keep up with survivor progression - which is good, if killer natural regression was faster than survivors can keep up with that's obviously a balance problem. Certainly we could also point out that at theit most [edit: sweaty] survivors may be able to progress gens too fast to give killers anything resembling a chance. Those are all valid points- I just don't think they're particularly relevant to the point of comparing sacrifices to gens complete
Post edited by ratcoffee on2 -
Lol you must be at low MMR ive seen killers wait till all 5 gens are complete and obliterate the survivors with an end game build with nurse. Thus the name SNOWBALL. Played against both alf and vulpixia on dead dog trust me its not much fun.
1
