An attempt to address tunneling.
So one thing is for sure, tunneling is a valid strategy this idea will not remove it out right from the game, it will simply detour killers from doing so, no system will ever be perfect and I do hope that people take this post seriously with feedback to help with any potential issues I may have missed.
First things first though we need a couple survivor based gameplay changes, now I know what you're all thinking. I thought he was going to address tunnelling but he wants to change survivor what? it will all make sense( or maybe it won't because I didn't think about an issue).
Survivor Changes
Survivors can no longer self unhook without the use of perks such as slippery meat, deliverance or the anti-camp feature ( or other perks I maybe forgetting or perks that haven't released yet)
The second hook stage mini game is now gone, survivors can no longer let themselves go on hook. They have to remain until the timer runs out.
Now to address tunneling.
The entity is angry, killers have been denying him the anguish, torment, fear and despair he desires. Similar to how a Killer receives negative points for proximity to a hook survivor. Killers now receives based on unique and total hook states before a survivor is killed.
For a killer to avoid this penalty they must hook 3 unique survivors and have a total of 4 hook states. If a killer kills a survivor without reaching this quota they can no longer receive an iridescent emblem for devout, if they kill two survivors before reaching the total quota for unique and total hooks they can no longer receive a gold devout emblem.
If a killer fulfills their unique survivor quota before they kill a survivor they now receive a BP bonus for each subsequent hook.
By now I am sure you can see why the above survivor changes are needed to prevent a salty survivor from exploiting this new system against the killer. We also need to address what happens if survivors leave a teammate on hook and they die.
if the Killer has moved 16m from the hook and does not reenter that 16m then they do not receive a punishment for the survivor being left on hook by their teammates.
The Idea here is not to remove tunneling out right, but to detour killers from doing so. Not being able to pip up and the chance to earn some more BP would prevent a sizeable portion of killers from tunneling. It obviously won't stop every killer from doing so. Some people just don't care about bp or pips.
My reasoning for 3 unique survivors and not all 4.
I don't think killers should be punished for trying to not tunnel and not being able to hook every survivor. Hooking 3 different survivors against a SWF can be a really tall ask as it is sometimes.
this is more about trying to make the game less miserable and more fun for everyone.
Please discuss your thoughts with me.
Comments
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you idea is not bad but i will share my first thought i had when reading it.
so im a survivor and i already have two hooks. what does the killer do no to stop me from doing what ever the freak i want to do without him getting punished. sure he could slug me but thats also highly hated by the community and is next on the choping block if tunneling will ever be dealt with.
i just thought about me searching for a surv a gen pops cause the survivor messed up a skill check and all i find is that stupid survivor i cant hook but i still need to chase him of and slug him or he does gens
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That is a good point.
How many gens have popped? Have any popped? Or are we down to 1 gen?
if its at 4 or 5 gens the killer could injure you and leave comfortably knowing that there is plenty of time and to actively try to leave you slugged would be wasting his own time chasing you to do so. if there is 1 - 2 gens left than they will likely have to slug you to buy time. Which while does suck that is where perks like unbreakable, exponential and even no mither come in and have even more value now.
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I think that most people who tunnel do not care about BP but the whole idea of winning. You make a good point about pips but that will only mitigate it until they get iri one, something that will become way more difficult without tunneling nevertheless. So I guess it would alleviate some tunneling but, as to it's effectiveness in the long run, I'm not too sure.
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I disagree that most who tunnel don't care about bp. Obviously some don't that is for sure, I mean some people actively play this game to make people miserable killers and survivors alike.
The only ways that would 100% remove tunneling would be actively detrimental to the game imo tbh. We will never see it completely gone. You're correct though once a killer receives iri 1 they don't really need to worry about it, but I'm sure most players would still go for that bp bonus for the hooked unique survivors if that was an option. Thing is though once killers come to the understanding that the do not need to tunnel to win they will be less likely to do so.
The only real option is to try to incentivize killers not to do it.
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overall i think it would lead to situations where the killer either has to chase a surv he cant hook or has to accept that the surv will just do gens and i think there is no situation where the killer can just allow to let a surv work on a gen cause the killer can never know how far the other gens are.
to get rid of tunneling bhvr should rework the whole hooking system.
its not that hard and does not take to much from them. simply keep hooks how they are but change what happens when a surv is hooked. after being hooked the survivor gets teleportet into some kind of holding cell where he has to stay for x amount of time and no one is able to make that time shorter or longer. kinda like waiting to respawn in other games.
when the time is up the survivor gets fully healed and brought back to the map. when spawning back the survivor has a short haste effect.
the respawn point is random and based on where the killer is where the other survivor are and where the doors are if the gens are done to ensure there is no way to get a advantage from reentering the map or a disadvantage.
that way the killer knows when he hooks a survivor he has a specific amount of pressure he puts on the enemy wich could ease some of the stress of playing killer. the survivor team gets freed from rescuing wich mostly in solo q can lead to two or even three survs runnign to the hook so progress dies.
camping and tunneling both would stop cause there is no way to it anymore.
the only problem i could see is what to do with endgame. with that system getting hooked in endgame is a death sentence maybe that system simply has no affect in endgame and hooking works like it always did
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What if I don't care about blood points?
What if I don't care about emblems?
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This kind of change would need tweaks. No way a survivor should get a free heal. What happens to unhooking tome challenges and and the like? this kind of change is so drastic that it is unrealistic. It is like I said previously.
There is no getting rid of tunneling, you can only take steps to prevent. Changes like you propose would require so many changes that would almost require an entirely new game.
I've been tunneled by a pyramid head with cages, so being sent off into another area while seems like it would help doesn't really either.
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I'm a bit skeptical about that myself. Most killers who tunnel me seem to be in it for the win and not the BP, even if it nets them less than 9k if I'm the only one who dies and everyone else rushes gens and escapes.
I do think you have good ideas though, I've even said myself self-unhook is outdated for the game and should be tied to slippery meat, etc, but this will only mitigate tunneling slightly, those who tunnel are the same as those who used to camp basement or 3-gen and focus solely on wins over BP. Especially in higher MMR where most feel it's necessary for weaker killers or extremely coordinated teams.
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sure a change like that would absolutly need a ton of tweaks i cant even think of and since i dont play survivor in dont even know how many challanges and perks would be affectet by that.
i also thought about our lovely pyramid headed friend and thats why i thoght making the re enter point random and reliyng on where the killer is would help.
there is a getting rid of tunneling but you are right it would probably need so much from bhvr that it would never happen, they would probably let the game die before they make such big changes
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If a killer is going to tunnel because they want the win, there isn't any amount of deterrence that will stop them. We will never see tunneling go away, we can only reduce the amount of killers who want to do so. And yes while some killers will tunnel to win, there are a lot of people who play killer because you can get way more bp than you can as a survivor and it isn't even close.
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How about changing dailys to "hook three different survivors in a row" and such instead of "Do this or that using Plague" Or " kill a survivor by your hand as Pig" so instead of using a mori and tunnel one person to get that kill you now have a more game healthy option.
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It'd kill the pressure done by the hooked by killing the survivor-survivor interaction, especially with the full heal, and would enable survivors to ignore anything else to focus the gen infront of them down. Something similiar went down in Deathgarden and I'm of the opinion its one of the things that killed the game.
Survivors would also loathe a respawn room. They cant stand sitting 90s on a gen, how'd you imagine theyd take being restricted to a room with nothing to do in for 120s ( the current sacrifice time). Ofc we could tweak the timeout duration, or even make it instant respawn somewhere, but that'd reduce the killer pressure on survivors even further.
Onto the topic of this thread, I'd agree on tweaking the self unhooking to make suicides impossible but I cant agree on punishing a killer for choosing a target. Getting punished for hitting and hooking a survivor sounds horribly unfair. "just ignoring them" doesnt work, theyd do gens or help others. Slugging them just spawns more "nerf slugging" or "punish slugging"-threads in the forum.
Call me a unrepentant biased killer main but punishing tunneling is as stupid as punishing survivors for not swapping gens every 25% of progress.
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"But killers don't care about pips and bp."
I'd argue this kind of thing should've already been in the game considering that we have - points for camping and they still added an anti-camp feature. I was a killer main up until playing a killer became way to easy in patch 6.1.0. It has only gotten easier since that as well.
It isn't hard to look for someone else, and just because you find a target doesn't mean you should go for them. This is the problem 99% of killers have. No game sense. Do you tunnel that one guy out? or do you push the others off gens. You push the others of gens that is the best play. I feel like this is lost on so many killers these days and they have no idea how to apply pressure besides tunneling and that isn't even a good form of pressure unless your pub stomping solos.
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while it would be nice if they had more variety in dailys, you only get one a day as it is right now. Daily Rituals IMO need a complete overhaul but that is another topic on its own.
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