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Delete this pain res grim dms pop meta
this meta is so dumb and unhealthy. Pain res and pop being in the same build was already annoying enough but manageable but now we have grim and dms to pause the game while the most progressed gens will be regressing from either pop or pain res. A majority of my matches I can guess over half a killers build before a match even starts. Almost all the most used killer builds consist of pop pain res and with this new meta the game is just boring every match is the same, there’s no variety between what killers you go up against either so every match is just a variation of a build more than likely including pop pain res while going against the same 5 killers and it’s just not fun
Comments
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It would be fine if there were methods to unblock gens, or perks to benefit from gens being blocked. Repressed Alliance would be a perfect perk to remove entity blocks when charged. Other weaker perks could also be given this extra functionality, but not as effective as RA should be imo.
Heck, Dark Theory could be buffed to prevent entity blocks (and maybe even regression) while the gen is within the boon radius. Red Herring could loud noise and unblock the gen. Poised could be buffed to also hide scratch marks while any gen is blocked. Made for This (haste) could also activate while you are within 32m of a blocked gen. Empathic Connection could get a 10% heal speed boost per gen blocked, and/or enable self-healing while gens are blocked. Technician could work on gens at half speed while blocked.
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Do gens even continue to regress while being blocked? I thought it only happened shortly, was considered a bug and then changed again?
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It’s unhealthy but doing 5 gens in 4 minutes is?
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why do ppl say this like it's the norm
if this is happening in your games then all 4 survivors were allowed to work on gens unbothered w/ toolboxes and perks to assist. Maybe don't get ran by 1 survivor for 5 min
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When you are in high MMR normally the real game begins at 2 gens. Most likely 3 gens pop before your first hook. Especially on a good survivor map.
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Oh sorry I didn’t realize all 5 gens getting done in 4 minutes because NOT A SINGLE ONE OF MINE HAS BEEN LIKE THAT. Even against an afk killer my match doesn’t end in 4 minutes 😃
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Happens at higher mmr. Not really an issue at lower mmr.
With this ridiculous 8 regression limit, this has pushed killers into needing to do heavy gen blocking builds since regression has been gutted. BHVR utterly failed at making it only affect 3 gen campers. It's affecting normal matches on a regular basis.
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Oh yeah I forgot everyone’s running that exact build at the moment aren’t they which is why there are complaints about adren and adren is being changed isn’t that right 😁
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Pain res top used killer perk pop right behind it pain res has been in meta since artist release and looking at those numbers and considering how many people are playing that’s a whole lot of people using those two perks grim is being used cuz of its recent buff and entered top 10 most used perks
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And adren is already being tweaked so that argument doesn’t really help you now does it there are 4 survivors per match and almost every survivor runs at least one exhaustion you want them to butcher all exhaustions as a whole to lower the pick rates?
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And grim activates when they leave a certain radius they can go back immediately after walking a couple steps
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You really said so a perk that was not used much made its way into the top ten used perks and meta and you know they had a anti camp implemented but made it so it only stops directly being face camped but that doesn’t matter if the killer could get the same results they got before the system by stepping back some and it’s not rare I see it almost every game there’s like 50k people still actively playing dbd and 20% of 50k is still 10k you’re trying to make 20% and all the other percentages seem small number but that’s a percentage of a pretty huge sum buddy so how about you check yourself first
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Let’s say there are 50k* not there are idk or care to look up how many people are actively playing
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20% is not just 20% would you rather have 20% of ten dollars or 20% of a million dollars depending on the base value 20% can be big or small and in this case 20% is big
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Ok but your example is quite literally rng the percentage of a perk being picked and used isn’t rng the perk is picked by the user so that wouldn’t work in this case and for the dice roll if you’re only aiming for a single to land on a 3 increasing the number of dices increases your chances of getting a 3😃
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Why do people say that pain res grim dms pop is a problem like its also the norm? Running into these full meta builds against killer is about as common as running against full meta against survivors as well. Both are a problem and both should be dealt with simultaneously.
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Pain res top used killer perk pop right behind it pain res has been in meta since artist release
what other good regression perk was released since that time?
CoB? We know how that went...
And adren is already being tweaked so that argument doesn’t really help you now
Pain res was already nerfed and reworked, so how that helps your argument?
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Buddy you’re still on this dice roll example but it wouldn’t matter because getting something by chance is completely different than getting something by choice. 20% of the player base is thousands of people so despite it being a 20% pick rate perk you have over thousands of people running the perk able to get in that one killer spot
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Pain res was nerfed and remained meta dh got nerfed remained in the meta and they needed it again and you see less of it now you don’t see less of pain res you see it almost every game meaning you just don’t get the argument at all
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Nerfed it again*
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Yeah because lithe and sprint burst are viable alternatives. Pain res stands alone among the butchered corpses of the other regression perks.
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You said it's in meta from release. Well, when there was never any new perk created that could replace it, how the hell is it supposed to leave meta?
Current pain res is weaker than first version, which was released by a lot. Issue is competition is very weak, even worse with new 3-gen feature, so again how the hell is it supposed to leave meta?
Give us alternatives, then nerf % if you want. But right now, there is not many alternatives.
What else other than Pain res / pop you want to use for slowdown?
Eruption / Surge? Well, 3-gen feature has different opinion about this one. 3 downs and gen is blocked, yay.
Ruin? Survivors looking for ruin is better slowdown than it's effect and hex spawns are really bad.
Any gen other kicking perk? 3-gen feature is back again. What a nice feature...
Then you have some gen blocking perks, which are probably hated even more than Pain res.
Deadlock works for few builds, but otherwise it has low synergies with other perks and doesn't have snowball potencial.
Corrupt, still great perk for most killers, but pain res does kinda same thing (early slowdown), but better.
Grim Embrace / DMS. Those are good with specific killers, but I wouldn't use them for generic builds.
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That’s the thing though before they turned dh into what it is those were still good alternatives to perks that could be used and they were used but the only complaints were dh and pain res doesn’t even Stan alone you can manage in matches with perks like pop surge or eruption you just don’t look for an alternative
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Exactly, they are "meta" because they are literally essential required killers to consent run them to have a "normal Game pace", especially if it gets sweaty for both sides in high mmr.
Playing base game killer without any of these perks, especially if your a lower/average tier killer, can be unforgiving as letting the Survivors team (swf or not) hammer down all their objectives and get away with all 4 escape or one or 2 kill, in a short period of time is more likely possible.
Generator repair time is too efficient, the when survivors split up and have only one survivor be chase by the killer the entire time, while the other 3 are splitting up on separate Genators.. For a strong teir/fast mobility killer that can end chase very quickly, or apply map pressure as fast as possible; this is not a issue; but for most killer roster, that is not possibility without slowdown/gen regression/gen blocking perks to assist them.
Same can be said for Exhaustion perks, windows of opportunity, Adrenaline, and whatever survivors meta perks that literally help increase their chances of survival as well as gen rushing the objectives and getting out as fast as possible. They all died pretty quickly without them, which is why they are most used and meta defined.
Moral of the DBD meta, They are all essential and "bandfix" for the imbalance of the base game, and why many players used them, to gain a way better advantage over any other perks. It is why they are the most common used perks, as literally the other 100 perk option that are available for killer and survivors side; have minor impact and least used rates over the meta.
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You say they’re essential but there are quite literally people who pull off 4ks WITHOUT ANY REGRESSION let alone the regression we’re talking about so how is it not essential for them let me know that’s like saying survivor meta was essential to escape matches especially now considering killer current meta along with tunneling
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4King without pain res does not say what you think it does. Most of the games you play as killer aren't against optimal 4 mans swf. Generally it's solos and duos with maybe a trio in the mix. It's not too difficult to stomp on solos when their skill levels may vastly different. It just doesn't make sense to build for teams you can already crush, you might as well bring your best in case you get a strong team.
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It literally does if you say it’s essential for killers to run the meta build to be able to manage in their match but ok and you say not every match is against optimal swfs but many killers arguments go out to swfs and how they manage in matches so if it’s generally mostly solo and duos with maybe trios in the mix why are there always complaints as if every match is a swf
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You missed the point. Killers run meta for when they face the strongest teams, because that's where those perks really shine. Killers can't just pick to face lower skilled opponents so they can play "chill".
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you do not run into a team (let alone an actual SWF) doing '5 gens in 4 minutes' regularly, relax. His example was extreme....
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I could make the same argument for something like tunneling survivors can’t make the choice of whether they get tunneled for being first chase or seen as the weak link all while trying to play casually. They can run perks like adren otr ds and or dh to help prevent being tunneled out you know perks that shine in tunneling situations and its seen as survivors just having second chance perks is high they shouldn’t have according to many killer mains
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and if anything you can argue that pop is better than pain res since it has more uses than just 4 end of the day they want meta shakeups here and there but pain res still remains meta since the day it’s landed in the game which I find crazy since survivor meta perks are getting changed out of meta
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Name a time that pain res wasn’t in meta besides the 3 gen eruption incapacitated meta
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Are you really asking that? Then would you say old dh for distance didn’t need to be changed since it doesn’t matter if it was meta for a long time and not balanced?
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Hes saying that it doesnt matter if pain res has been meta since release because he thinks it has always been a balanced perk since release.
If the perk is balanced it doesnt matter if its in the meta for a long time.
Old deadhard for distance wasnt balanced in anyones eyes unless you're extremely biased towards the perk/survivors.
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Everyone knows the MMR in this game doesn't do anything. Please stop acting like there is a super secret high MMR where you play against nothing but god tier survivors. If this were the case then some of the more ridiculous killer win streaks would not exist. We even know from statistics that four man SWFs at high MMR die more than they escape.
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So you are saying regression perks that literally needs SKILL and INTERACTION is unhealthy for the game?
What's healthy then? a perk that only needs to kick a gen that keeps game stale for 120 minutes?
If that's the case, then It means you won't match 4 regression tryhard killers every match.
Pick one side and don't cherrypick the fact.
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Dude the whole concept of basically needing regression perks at all because the game does not last long enough otherwise is unhealthy. The meta will always limit itself to such perks if this is the way it goes... Besides that I find it kind of funny that it is now 4 regression perks again... When Ultimate Weapon was new everybody complained about, and now we are just back to 4 regression perks.
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You are picking the case in which those survivors are literally low rank/soloQ survivors whom are not experienced enough or do not have meta perks to utilize to win. In those Game, obviously the killer is going to win in those type of matches. Not in High MMR, or average killer games for me, when those survivors are confident and skilled players that utilized their perks and know exactly what they are doing and what needs to be done. When they have ability to communication and even make callouts to the killer location, identity, their power and perks by watching their actions and strategies; you know for certain, SWFs have a straight up extra advantage that increases their chances of survival immensely, especially if it is their goal to win in that scenario.
Also, you forgotten a most important factors as to why killer tunnel. It technically the most effective way to win, especially if the Survivor they are chasing is the "weak link" of the team. Remember, killers need to kill in order to remove one less survivor from the group, after all; the most effective way to get rid of the survivor’s ultimate advantage (which is the numbers advantage) is secure a kill as soon as possible, with any means to delay progress on Generators, if given the chance.
Understand that, survivors whom are experienced in the game, whom knows how to used meta perks effectively, know very well how very important it is to not let one of their teammates die so soon and they will do exactly everything it takes to not only delay the inevitable free kill for the killer but be efficient in completing their one and only main objectives, which are the Generators. 4 survivors vs 1 killers, 16 perks (that can be stack with meta perks) vs 4 perks, plus the killer most often is only good at engaging chase with only one survivor at a time.
You can probably take a good educated guess on what the other 3 teammates survivors should be effectively doing or what you should be doing, if one teammate is literally be chase. You or your teammates should be hammering gen repair, to increase everyone's chance for winning. If by chance, no one is barely touching the gens and you are being too Aultristic or playing "hide and seek"; you might as well be giving the killer a easy victory and palming yourself in the face. SoloQ most often, never learns this lesson the hard way, and ends up complaining in the forums or not understand that constant perk changes will never truly fix the imbalance pace of the game.
Also, one last thing.... no matter how much you complained about meta perks; there will also be brand new perks to replace them and be sour about anyway, so stop complaining about pain resonance since it got nerf significantly in the past. You want improvement to the game, start by buffing other less insignificant perks to be actually useful and propose more useful balance changes that would maybe de-incentives killers and survivors that don't need meta perks to play normally. If they truly do not like generator regressing perks, how about nerfing generator repair speed up to a extra minute of boring generator repair simulation or a much better solution, another main objective for survivors to do.
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In those scenarios, those types of swfs don't care about winning at all, ad their condition of winning is bullying the killer. And yes they tend to play too Aultristic and Lose significantly, when the killer is smart enough to know what they are doing.
But, if playing against swfs teams that are playing to win; yeah... they will always be be better than the killer.
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Then they really shouldn't have done regress limitation? that only stopped people from kicking gens without perks and forced people to use perks instead.
And on top of that, it's not like anything beside coup and SA is that good as of now, they somehow even nerfed STBFL which never been a problem.
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Regression perks are also affected by the regression limit? It is basically limited to regression actions.
But sure it does kind of open a gap for the Gen block perks like DMS and Grim Embrace.
What is Sa? There are too many perks to know immediately.
Enduring, Spirit Fury, Ultimate Weapon, Bamboozle and so on are still decent perks. It is not like they are all trash, it is just that regression is currently so much better...
The deeper issue should be fixed and not Band aid fixed with perks... Games are too short and everybody runs regression perks? Make games longer and nerf regression perks into the ground... Or more concrete... Why does everybody run corrupt intervention? Because people spawn directly on top of gens and if you don't they will get 20-30 % of the gen done until the killer even finds someone... More basic game features and less band aid fixes via perks should be the go to way.
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You know, the difference between normal regression and perk regression becomes much much larger with regression limit.
SA is superior anatomy, it can REALLY help with 4.6 killers, not much for 4.4s.
Enduring Spirit fury is more of a meme build and literally countered by just predropping, ultimate weapons are recon perks which is generally good all the time but only need one, bamboozle has been decent but basically worse SA.
The truth is, literally no one want longer gen time, or "side objective" that just contribute for longer match, it's not even about loss, it just feels bad for them, basekit corrupt doesn't even fix a problem because it doesn't change the fact a killer can only pressure a survivor at most.
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Usually kicking a generator just is not the play as it wastes too much time, the increase to the regression of the kick already somewhat made it more viable. But of course some perks offer much larger regression, however from the top of my head only pop and pain rez have that much more regression in one hit... Surge has 8% and eruption has 10% the difference between those and the 5% base is not that much (yes I know eruption also gets the 5% from the kick, but you know what I mean...).
I think superior anatomy and bamboozle don't differ that much in strength, but from my understanding bamboozle is more commonly used on killers like Bubba or Billy whereas I don't see superior anatomy that often.
I would not call it a meme combo, considering pre dropping is not too good against every killer. However Enduring by itself is quite a decent perk. The point stays that there are decent perks that just get overshadowed by how good regression is.
I would not say no one... Side objectives and such stuff is great and the game time is not the issue... The issue is that doing gens is boring, and nobody wants to do boring stuff longer, if you make side or main objectives more fun then I don't think anybody cares if it is 5 or 10 min... As long as it is fun.
Sure you can only pressure one person, but it still fixes the issue of survivors jumping on a generator as soon as the match starts. With corrupt they need to walk a bit first to find a generator. Ideally 3 survivors start doing a generator at the same time as the killer enters chase with a survivor.
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The trials are already fast-paced, how making it slightly slower is "unhealthy" ? Nothing crazy like 3 gen strats and the 35 minutes game.
When I play killer (as a survivor main), this build is an insurance for survivors that I will be able to win the game without tunneling.
Nerf these perks too hard and good luck with all the tunneling and slugging.
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I mean if they want meta shakeups it does matter if a perk has been in meta since release but even if we go off of that logic explain how endurance dh before you were limited to 2 uses per match was unbalanced to the point where it needed to be nerfed again. It was a ping dependent perk for starters and could easily be waited out, paying attention to survivors movement and how they played majority of the time would give away if they had it before they use it in match
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Buddy people tunnel with that said build. Just because you don’t tunnel with it doesn’t mean others aren’t gonna go on their jolly way to tunnel someone while running the build your argument is based off your actions as if it’s you who makes up the entire dbd playerbase
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Deadhard for distance was before the endurance deadhard. Pre 6.1.0 if you know that.
The endurance deadhard after where you could use it an unlimited amount of times in the game and where you didnt need to get hooked was still probaly slighty overtuned. I believe that why they changed it aswell.
Certain times the killer would have to swing/use their power and then you could dh that and it would punish the killer hard. An effect that strong should be more restricted.
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Honestly it'd be nice to butcher exhaustion perks so people swap up their builds
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One thing to note, none of those perks get value if you are good at looping, a survivor can both, buy time for the other survivors to work on gens, and delay the killers slowdown perks. The DMS grim embrace, and or pop with pain res are necessary evils but (and this is gonna be kinda controversial) fall into the same umbrella as buckle up + FTP
on their own each of these perks are great, however when you combine them it becomes insanely toxic and unfun to deal with.
without these slowdown perks, killers will just turn to less fun strategies just to buy them some time. Tunneling and slugging would get out of hand really fast, but with these perks you have less reason to slug due to the bonuses you get from hooks.
on how to fix this? Make a designated tag for slow down perks, buff ALL slowdown perks, and add penalties for running multiple slow down perks. My idea, and probably won’t happen but just a suggestion. Or maybe add an anti tunnel clause to all slowdowns that it can be applied to, that worked out great for pain res
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The only times a killer would need to swing is at a pallet tbh that’s when it was really just about unavoidable but besides that pop is arguably one of the strongest regression perks and it punishes without limit so should they do something about pop. yes dh was strong if you got it off but it still wasn’t always guaranteed it’s ping dependent and has a pretty easy counter measure
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