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Why did hemorrhage get nerfed alongside mangled?

moputopia
moputopia Member Posts: 151

I was wondering why the hemorrhage status affect also has a timer now, since I don't think this was mentioned in the patch notes or roadmap.

Answers

  • Yatol
    Yatol Member Posts: 1,960
    edited March 14

    hemorrhage is probably the reason why mangle got nerfed to begin with

  • Hexling
    Hexling Member Posts: 657

    I think it was mainly because he can bring you closer while huntress and trickster cant. Also they don't inflict deep wound.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671
    edited March 14

    I actually don't see anything wrong with 30 second med kit heals. When we look at how long each killer spends per hit on average 30 seconds is actually very reasonable. The majority of the killer roster can't get a hit in under 25 seconds..which is multiplied by 3 since all 3 other survivors are getting this extra time. So each hit, 75 seconds gone. Obviously a lot of different scenarios that could make hits less than 25 seconds, but it gets the point across anyway in a generality. Kind of how we talked about that self heals need to always be bad for the health of the game. So they're done for convenience, not efficiency. As soon as they're approaching "good" we get back to the scenario of why everyone dodges when they see 4 medkits. It's too impactful.

    STBFL nerf makes no sense to me either. It was a very balanced and healthy perk. In order to get value you had to play around your m2 to hold stacks. That was one more perk some killers could make use of over just stacking more slow down perks..and now even they replaced it with another slow down. It also to me encourages tunneling since I personally try not to tunnel but if that makes 1 survivor I have to ignore then with only 3 to choose from it's more likely I'm gonna run into one of the ones I just hooked. I want more options so I don't have to target the same people. It did hurt Deathslinger a lot, that was a core perk on him. Same can be said for Demo and I personally always ran it on Pig as well. I don't see it as worth running anymore on any of those, they all just replaced it with another gen regression/block.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,861
    edited March 14

    30 second was problematic because Nurse and MDR Spirit do not spend 30 seconds per hit. they spend like 10-15 second per hit which meant that if nurse or spirit made no errors in their ability, they would acquire permanent exposed[Tuft of hair] because healing == losing. It also encourages unhealthy no heal play-styles as the norm to defeat every single killer. Now you can argue that no heal play-styles is high skill technique to defeat killers but I would argue this is very bad for new players coming into dbd because it does not allow them to "practice" chasing. This is because a no heal play-style for a new player to say 1500 MMR is too sharp. They don't have enough gameplay experience to understand the in and outs of looping and only way for them to learn in and out of looping is to make mistakes which is where health-states help them learn the game.

    this segment brings around the second problem which is where non-mobility killer take 30 seconds per health-state. I could go on to talk about the issues of how pre-running for non-mobility m1 killers is too strong because of health-state speed boosts and those killer are unable to capitalize off survivor poor positioning. All that stuff factors into successful healing being too rewarding/powerful among other issues such as Adrenaline & Decisive strike/Endurance being too powerful. STBFL tries rectify some of those problems but the nerf has only med-kits & second chance stuff more problematic for low tiers.

    pig & clown are unaffected by sbtfl change. The reason why pig is unaffected is that pig is now an m2 only killer. She kinda has indirect stbfl where you get extra distance before the chase instead of after the hit. Max distance ambushes make pig into pseudo mobility in-chase killer. The skill required to play pig is something like leatherface with Award chili+Beast marks. You need to know max distance of ambush charge preemptively to hit people at long distances. At same time, pig might have too high of skill-floor that most player will consider the changes as a nerf. She also has Old doctor add-on problem now so have fun waiting patches for them to fix that. Clown got compensated for stbfl change but he's not any stronger than before due to pinky finger nerf. He was like B-tier killer with iri add-on. Now he's b-tier but doesn't need to use pinky but now bound to perks. Being bound to perk is less fun then add-on's because there is low build creativity. Sad, in the ptb, he had potencial to be A-tier killer.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    We don’t balance around Nurse, that’s a failed endeavor before we even begin. Nurse is a an exception to all rules. Balancing around Nurse destroys the game. That’s a Nurse issue, not a healing one. Fix Nurse.

    The only reason longer heals encourages not healing is because of how overly safe staying injured is. If loops were less overly safe, maps less overly big allowing hold w and pallets not as abundant then they would actually be in danger more than they are and would heal regardless of the time. So what you described isn’t a healing issue it’s a map design one. Without longer heals it discourages a hit and run play style and encourages just tunneling one person out a time since spread hits are wasting more of your killer time than they gain. Net loss.

    I actually disagree on Pig. Her ambush still isn’t that great and I don’t think she’s a primarily m2 killer whatsoever. There’s only a small fraction of hits you’re getting with it now that you weren’t getting before and just leave the loop is still a thing. She was overall nerfed in my opinion.

  • Choaron
    Choaron Member Posts: 371

    It's common knowledge that the balance devs can't stand him. Just look at the difference of treatment he receives compared to the other two ranged killers, lmao.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,861

    The only reason longer heals encourages not healing is because of how overly safe staying injured is. If loops were less overly safe, maps less overly big allowing hold w and pallets not as abundant then they would actually be in danger more than they are and would heal regardless of the time.

    I disagree. You could take a killer like Doctor or Demo or any one of these killers that has no-chase mobility and just pre-run. hold-w from one end of the map to the other. get hit, hold-w back to the other side of the map and the chase will be like 45 seconds with killer acquiring bloodlust on every single chase. I haven't done this experiment but I would very curious if you could finish all 5 generators with killer taking isolation chases where they're not camping/tunneling off hook. I have feeling that you could win the entire game with just fast healing(Like botany knowledge+We'll make it) and nothing else. Use 0 pallets or windows and still probably get a 3 man escape on like an average map e.g shelter woods. that is a problem and it is not a map design issue. that health-state balance issue. Being healthy is too rewarding in the game vs weaker killers.

    The game is balanced around killer being able to "machine gun" the survivor. It is not exclusive nurse trait either. Many killers are able to do it. For example, Wesker can m1 a survivor, recover from a swing then use 2 virulent bound to get a follow up hit. Chucky can do something similar with S&D. Some killer have access to machine gun in the form of range such as Huntress hatchets, Trickster's blades and so on. Fast-pace downs allows for great killer skill expression and survivor skill expression because the killer can get a quick down if they play well and the survivor can try to out-skill and survive the chase for longer. Sloppy was problematic for the majority of killers because the mangled slowdown healing so significantly that it enables killer stronger killer to almost keep entire lobby injuries for entire trial. Sure the mangled may have been balanced for weaker killers due to their poor time efficiency but not so much for strong killers. Killers with machine gun/mobility powers have too much of time efficiency advantage in chase compare those that do not. that is not really talking about the safe pallet loop balance on some maps that divides killers further.

    On side note, being permanent injured is not very fun for survivor. Making healing so impractically slow is indirectly erasing the healing and health-state system in the game. The healing system should not be erased but rather balanced where successful healing does not equal free win.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,134

    “On side note, being permanent injured is not very fun for survivor. Making healing so impractically slow is indirectly erasing the healing and health-state system in the game. The healing system should not be erased but rather balanced”

    This is the reason. Survivors weren’t healing—which killers ironically complained about. With sloppy and mangled reigned in, they might heal again.