What did i do to deserve that?

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  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,144
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    See you did it backwards, what you do is start with all flashlights then quick switch to no flashlights so the entire build is based around defending flashlights lol

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,050
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    Quick switching usually implies the Survivor is bringing a build that Killers won't like rather than spending BP on another character.

    You may not have done anything but you've already implied that you might be an annoyance to the Killer even before the game started.

    Unless the Killer shared their train of thought in endgame chat, it's likely that they assumed you were going to be an annoyance so they took you down before letting you have a chance to become an issue, lightborn or not.

  • JeanGreyarea
    JeanGreyarea Member Posts: 470
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    Thing is im not really a flashlight save type player and i only used them to try the build out. Thats a funny mindgame tho

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,144
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    Lol if I'm ever in the mood to troll that's how I do it, it's too obvious when everyone is empty handed that it's about to happen. It's extremely rare all 4 survivors have nothing going into the trial so if you reverse that mindset you have them running useless perks it's way more effective that way

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
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    I'd argue that it is unusual to make up disparaging scenarios about random players just playing the game.

    They could very well be bad/new at billy and/or struggle at high mmr.

    Whoopdee.

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 496
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    It's really not. You've simply decided that if someone does this, you don't have to be nice and are free to be as toxic as you want to be.

    Instead of seeing someone who wants to play their favourite survivor and is sick of getting dodged for it, you see someone who is toxic and deserving of mistreatment. Maybe if you gave the other person the benefit of the doubt, instead of just assuming the worst of their intentions, you wouldn't end up feeling pissed off.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 1,734
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    Okay I appreciate your comment and no worries in that case.

    I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the quick/6 second switch was BM but that could just be my misconception here.

    But thanks again for acknowledging the misunderstanding here

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
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    Given the multitude of people in the thread that consider it BM, it seems that is the general consensus.

    Personally, I'm alt-tabbed out until a match starts, most times, so it doesn't bother me.

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 496
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    Yeah, they consider it BM because they don't take a moment to consider why someone might be doing it. Everyone has a desire to let their negativity and aggro out and people will look for any excuse for it.

    Example: Survivor brings flashlight - The survivor obviously wants to grief me for the entire match and make my experience miserable, so I'm going to make them miserable. Maybe they have a challenge? Nope. They're just toxic.

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 496
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    Gaslighting? If you decide to interpret every action someone takes in the worst possible light and never consider possible reasons for why they might do it, then you are just giving yourself excuses to behave however you feel like.

  • JeanGreyarea
    JeanGreyarea Member Posts: 470
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    I had made a thread the day before about “chemical trap and champion of light” stacking and i said i would try to use this combo. Killer brings lightborn then thats a perk slot wasted and an item wasted. Wasnt trying to bm the killer and anyone that watched the video can see i didnt flashlight click or tbag. I didnt even try to get its attention. Yeah maybe i should have used a different character to avoid p100 lobby dodging but claire is the one with all the flash lights

    i get back then quick switching into a key was toxic because of old hatch

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 496
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    The problem is, that if someone has a bad attitude, it doesn't matter what you do. They will find something in your conduct that they will use to justify how they treat you. We all know that lobby dodging is an issue for many players. If the killer refuses to even consider that when seeing you switch out, then it's not on you, it's on them.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
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    From a different perspective, someone may need Lightborn to counter flashlights due to inexperience/limitations/etc, and may take a fast switch as their game being 'ruined.'

    Someone else may be using a chill build as there are no items and get fast switched into 4 toolboxes and decide to tunnel from the get-go.

    You can never know what people are thinking/why they do whatever, but they're free to think/act how they want within the confines of the game.

    No sense in wondering why people do x...it's a video game, not a psychology course @_@

    There are an infinite number of possibilities and reactions.

  • CrackedShevaMain
    CrackedShevaMain Member Posts: 260
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    This post is an example of what I was about to say which is that quick switching typically triggers the killers who bring their egos into the game. To them, your quick switch basically tells them that you’re a challenge that must be destroyed, or that you’ve somehow insulted or mocked them and therefore they have to put you in your place by tunneling you out or BMing you.It’s usually ego based.

    Whats funny is so many people mock survivors about the “survivor rule book” when killers have just as many rules they expect survivors to follow. Only difference is if you don’t follow them, the killers actually have the power to lash out and ruin the game for you for not complying. 🤣

  • TieBreaker
    TieBreaker Member Posts: 496
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    True. Trying to read into someone's behaviour is mostly pointless, especially in a computer game.

    But we should limit how many free passes we give ourselves to behave in the worst way possible. People should at least take a brief moment to consider why someone might do something, before they let the ugly out. Refusing to do that is just self-centred and emotionally lazy.

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,232
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    I don't take switching as BM. I do take teabagging at pallets as BM but I've quite often been checking challenges and, if I've missed something such as a medkit, toolbox or flashlight for a challenge, I'll switch up.

    Unless it's a group of 4 that switches to flashlights at the last second I just assume it's something like that.

  • Snowbawlzzz
    Snowbawlzzz Member Posts: 1,419
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    You can play 100 games as killer, and every single time someone last-second switches, it will be a taunting flexer that wants to ruin your day. You would know that if you played killer. My reasoning is not unfounded.

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
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    I don't really associate my in-game behavior with any moral grounds.

    If I feel like doing x for whatever reason, I'll do x.

    I don't care about how things make me look in-game or to other players and, in turn, I don't take anything in the game that they do personally aside from cheating/exploits.

    I always say gg or something to that nature and move on to the next game regardless of outcome.

    I think this is the way to go as I'm apparently a lot less miserable than a lot of other players, judging from their forum postings.

  • EQWashu
    EQWashu Member, Mod Posts: 4,648
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    Stepping in with a reminder to keep the discussion civil, please. Also, a reminder that the admission or encouragement of Unsportsmanlike Conduct, such as DCing, is not permitted on the Forum. Lastly, changing something last-second in a lobby (character, item, etc) is not unsportsmanlike conduct, or inherently done to cause upset. Thank you.

  • Slowpeach
    Slowpeach Member Posts: 691
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    I dunno. While I think in some cases things are overblown a group of SWF swapping at the last second to 4 flashlights is definitely done to cause upset. I've only seen it done to me once (but I don't play to win) but saying that swapping at the last second is not done to cause upset is very naive at best. I don't take issue with it personally, but it is a little bit of a douche move and can be done on purpose to be a jerk.

    It's done deliberately to lower the chances of bringing lightborn or whatever perk the killer would bring otherwise.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    It's done deliberately to lower the chances of bringing lightborn or whatever perk the killer would bring otherwise.

    Makes sense. Lightborn is quite the BS perk in general, but I get why its looked down upon by killers.

    Still, I think its weak to say its a good reason to tunnel someone out. Its just not justified. I often level a lowbie survivor from my maxed BP so I can earn some, then get back on my current main of the day. Should I be tunneled for this?

  • The_Yosh
    The_Yosh Member Posts: 144
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    As a Bubba main, I would like to say THIS IS SLANDER!!!...but I cannot.

    I can add a few more:

    1) After stunning the Bubba, staring at him from the other side of the pallet.

    2) After leaping through a window with your REsiLIeNCe, pointing at the Bubba and nodding.

    3) After making a Bubba bump, just standing there watching him tantrum.

    Personally, while I as a Bubba main enjoy these interactions, I will also most certainly camp someone while hitting and nodding in return. Sometimes they will even get chainsawed on hook. Or, I will stand there until the anti-camp Kobe, just so I can chainsaw them down again. In my mind, the survivors know what they have done to deserve this, and this is a fair transaction. 🤠

    (P.S: This is all fun and games and I am not actually mad about it. I do all of these things to fellow Bubba players before sacrificing myself to them at the end of the game)

    Remember folks, you have to feed Bubbas to make them big and strong! We are a dying breed, an endangered species even. More kills means more Bubbas. 😍

  • The_Yosh
    The_Yosh Member Posts: 144
    edited March 17
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    As a killer player, I don't really care about quick switching. In fact, I usually don't even notice the lobby because I am doing builds, spending BP, or alt tabbed. However, it can be fun to chase quick switchers because I figure they are up for whatever happens. They might be the most experienced on the team and give me a good chase.

    In this case, I don't think it was the quick switch.

    1) You were first chased, first downed, first hooked.

    2) When you got unhooked, he only saw the unhooker and you. The other two people were in the basement.

    3) You were now injured and the other guy wasn't. If I didn't find anyone else, I would chase you too.

    4) When you went down the next time, the invocation spell had finished.

    5) After the unhook he was down two gens and an invocation. With three gens left and you on death hook, he needed to take you out of the game.

    6) Your team flocked in to protect you, and did exactly what he wanted. He got huge pressure, many injured/downed, and nobody on gens.

    7) Hitting on hook silences the ear-piercing survivor scream.

    That's it really. I play about 50/50 killer and survivor and 90% of the time it isn't personal. I'm just trying to achieve my goals, just like the other players. I chase who I see, but I will tunnel if I feel it will put me in a better position. 🤷‍♂️

    Edit: In this case though it certainly looks like you were trying to troll with a BM quickswitch. Your build is all about blinding/stunning/slowing the killer. It looks like you wanted to have killer interactions, and he obliged. 👍️

  • Raccoon
    Raccoon Member Posts: 7,644
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    People can tunnel any time they want for any reason.


    They don't need to justify it.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    Oh I know. I have more respect for those that just outright admit they do it because they want. But I wasn't asking for justification. I don't really care.

    My issue, and its the only issue, is its all I see anymore. Its all anyone see's anymore. Tunneling being as common as it is is unhealthy for the game. I acknowledge players want to play how they want, but currently its causing more harm than good imo. In many others opinions. That's all I am ever saying :)

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,310
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    I mean he may well have just been tunneling you out because that's the most effective way of playing the game.

    Most of the time it isn't personal it's just that they were gonna tunnel anyone and this game that was you.

  • Slowpeach
    Slowpeach Member Posts: 691
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    Counterpoint on lightborn. Flashlights are also bs when played to the max. Like many things in this game both flashlights and lightborn are part of the toxic arms race.

    If you don’t have lightborn and a survivor deliberately goes down in the open with no walls to face, you literally cannot pick them up or make progress outside of slugging which as we know is awful to go against. Perks like background player have only made this easier. Yes one or two players are wasting time waiting for the pick up and the killer can try and fake it and hit them too, but again you get a lot of time especially with background player to make the save. Further only one person needs to be doing gens to progress the game for survivors and you only really need one person to make a guaranteed save. Having two is simply safety.

    Having lightborn in this scenario prevents this nonsense and ultimately makes the game run more smoothly for those not looking to ruin the flow of it and laugh at the stupid killer who can’t make progress. However there are innocent uses to flashlights too and some quests outright require you to blind the killer to progress them which can’t be done if the killer has light born. Also there is a skill in picking someone up and evading the light but it’s very easy to go down in a spot that makes this impossible.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    I like the disengagement of this 'flow' you mentioned. The trials aren't a blueprint to me. They're just part of the game. You're speaking of these niche scenarios that happen now and then like they're something every game brings in truckloads.

    And why you use words like "ruin the flow of it and laugh at the stupid killer..." What? I highly doubt this happens as often as I'm assuming you think it does. And back to this 'flow', if it's something the killer wishes to follow, you bet your butt I'm gonna disrupt the 'flow' lol. :P

    You're in public lobbies, not running in a tournament. This scenario is so uncommon from my experience. Regardless, Lightborn has a high value for no activation. It just 'is.' At least Ultimate weapons has you interact with a whole locker to activate.

    I would like you opinion on this viewpoint: These trials are killers trying to murder survivors. Killer blinds are one of two whole ways we can defend ourselves. Do you feel Lightborn is Fine, over or undertuned? Balanced? Is there a survivor equivalent? Thank you! :)

  • Slowpeach
    Slowpeach Member Posts: 691
    edited March 18
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    Niche scenario or no it doesn't matter. The fact there is no good counterplay to this aside from slugging should be enough of a reason for cause of concern. The only reason it isn't common is because lightborn exists to automatically deny it and more importantly it requires the coordination of two preferably three people to do it.

    I honestly think getting into the complexities of why this is bad is a waste of time and results in way too much text.

    I'll just make a simple comparison to what flashlights played optimally are like from the survivor side. 3 gen skull merchant as she used to be. Survivors cannot progress the game, but neither can the killer. It's a complete stalemate. Granted not as bad because in the 3 survivors trying to stop the killer making progress will still eventually end the game because 1 person will finish all the gens but it is very similar and equally frustrating to be on the receiving end of, if not worse for the killer because victory is absolutely impossible unless the survivors really screw up. Chances are survivors will choose the map too to make this even stronger. 3 gen merchant could be broken too I suppose but it was horrible to go up against.

    As for your direct question on Lightborn. It is a necessary evil. I dislike the perks existence because it doesn't interact well with inexperienced players who don't know how flashlights work. I also find it uninteractive because flashlights are 100% useless rather then being reduced in effectiveness or something similar. For example, it could still blind a killer but would not cause them to drop their survivor. I still wouldn't like it, but at least blinding at pallets would still be a valid use.

    However without Lightborn (and Franklins demise another perk I dislike) survivors doing unbeatable flashlight strategies would rise up in usage massively and SWF escape rates would skyrocket. On top of that, slug builds for killers would also skyrocket. I don't see a good outcome to this.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    As for your direct question on Lightborn. It is a necessary evil. I dislike the perks existence because it doesn't interact well with inexperienced players who don't know how flashlights work. I also find it uninteractive because flashlights are 100% useless rather then being reduced in effectiveness or something similar. For example, it could still blind a killer but would not cause them to drop their survivor. I still wouldn't like it, but at least blinding at pallets would still be a valid use.

    I agree with this. But I'd like to point out how little Lightborn's power is being shown in your example. You are only speaking of flashlights being insignificant. Flashbangs, Blastmine, and any other way of blinding you is also gone. I find it to be one of the most oppressive perks to bring against survivors (not personally, I dont use FL's). But I do like that fact, as I want the killer to feel indomitable.


    However without Lightborn (and Franklins demise another perk I dislike) survivors doing unbeatable flashlight strategies would rise up in usage massively and SWF escape rates would skyrocket. On top of that, slug builds for killers would also skyrocket. I don't see a good outcome to this.

    Eh, maybe. It will still only happen as much as it would otherwise imo. And only at upper echelons of MMR. The majority of players don't run into bully squads and such, as they are almost non-existent. Im not saying you're wrong in any capacity, I just don't think it would happen like that at all. I think the game might be more fun.

  • Slowpeach
    Slowpeach Member Posts: 691
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    Yeah I actually retyped this post a lot because I've been accused of being too long winded. Which drives me nuts because people then say 'well what about this'. It's even worse when the what about this is ACTUALLY in the post and people don't read. People want simple solutions and answers to incredibly complex problems... ugh...

    So in previous versions I actually did mention blinds as a whole which included flashbang and blast mine. Blast mine still stuns so most of it's value is still there. The counter argument though is that if none of the things lightborn counters are there it's dead weight. Which is worse for killer then survivor because survivors collectively get 16 perks. Killers only get 4.

    I generally dislike the whole relationship flashlights and lightborn have.