New Undone Perk and Regression events
When you kick a gen with undone active, it counts as 2 regression events (one for base kick 5% and one for the undone regression). Is that meant to be in the game? if that is the case then undone is SO bad bc if you only have 3 tokens thats 2 REGRESSION EVENTS for a ONE 8% KICK. bruh
Answers
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Eruption and Overcharge also count as 2 regression events. 4 kicks and the Gen is blocked. Since we are limited to 8 kicks a lot of those perks need to be buffed or changed.
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Not sure about overcharge, I think I remember a dev stating that OC only uses one event. The second likely event is a skill check after all, and since normal skill check failure does not count as an regression event, it would make sense that a difficult skill check failure does not count either.
With eruption, at least you get two separate events (one when kicked, one when eruption triggers). And it will be 15% for two events, so 7.5% per event. Still bad, but at least better than two normal kicks.
With undone, you are doing just one kick animation... and still lose two stacks. Even if you only had the minimum stacks (3), so you get an 8% regression, with 4% per event. So it's better to NOT kick a gen wirh just 3 stacks ... thats just dumb.
Also, wenn Undone uses two events (one for 5% base and for additional % dependant on stacks), why does pop not do so as well? You could argue that its also two events, 5% base and 30% remaining progress afterwards.
So on the one site, we have Pop as THE meta gen-kick perk, that can be applied 8 times on a gen.
And on the other side, we have Undone, highly inconsistent esp against exp. survivors (who never miss skill checks), hard to get ANY value out of it even when running dedicated builds for it, and even if you manage to miraculously gain some tokens on the perk, you can only use it 4 times.
Thats pure insanity, imo.
Edit: And even if you get much value out of it (so many stacks), you are likely also winning without it, just bc of the lost progress by the missed skillchecks itself.
Undone in it's current state is unbelievably weak, possibly the worst regression perk there is. Even if it only used up one regression event, it would still be extremely weak. There needs to be a different way to accumulate tokens, survivorsfailing skill checks is not the way to got, imo.
Btw. does it atleast work together with OC / Oppression skill checks? Or do such "difficult" skill checks not count?
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Undone needs massive buffs to be remotely good. You could literally double it and it still looks awful.
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That sounds like a bug, Pop also consumes only 1 regression event and works practically the same.. 5 % base + the 30 % current progress, all included in one kick aka 1 regression event.
Can't imagine that Undone should work different than any other kicking Perk.
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I like the perk with my skillcheck blight build. I often get 9 token kicks (around 11-14% a kick) with it using soul chemical and rushing around, the problem is the regression events bc after using it like 3-4 times the gen just blocks bruh
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I tried with doctor and perks to make the skill checks harder, but did not really get much tokens. It's just totally useless against survivors above potatoe level.
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It could give less tokens on good skill checks (not greats) with numbers adjusted accordingly. There is precedent for perks working on good skill checks (Gearhead, Call of Brine).
Problem there is though that you'd know when someone is on a generator or healing which could be too strong but then perks like Pop, Corrupt, Deadlock and Pain Res exist so I dunno. Perk is absolutely useless, even on Doctor with a skill check build. There's much better options even in that niche scenario.
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You are correct on eruption, but overcharge does not, it counts just like missing a regular skillcheck does.
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That's what I've been saying. This whole 8 regression limit has severely hurt the viability of SEVERAL perks. This whole thing needs to be reworked to only kick in once there are only 3 gens left.
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Disagree.
It's clearly an issue with Undone here, not with the mechanic itself.
Besides Eruption, which I couldn't care less about, other perks are not really affected. Even with Nowhere to hide, which incentives you to kick gens alot, reaching 8 regressions events is unlikely, when you still try to chase and down ppl.
If you just stay at the gens and never fully commit to a chase, than you deserve being hit by the limit, even when there still 4/5 gens to do.
I got the limit triggered against me a few times, and apart from the one with Undone, that came as a surprise, I could tell that I did not play the best there and deserved the blocked generators.
Post edited by CaulDrohn on2 -
pop goes weasel does count as regression event. any regression done by the killer counts as regression event. Pain res also counts as regression event. Undone is a bad perk. nothing more. the structure for how the perk is implemented is very poor. it is designed to be a perk where you kick a gen then block it but it fails on several fronts to do that.
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Absolutely
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This would completely invalidate the system. Because it would then not work anymore against Killers who 3-Gen from the start, who are the reason why it was implemented in the first place. Because it does not matter what happens to the other Gens if a Killer is just guarding 3 Gens from the beginning, so if it would only work with 3 Gens left, it would never kick in. Unless the Survivors bring themselves into a 3-Gen to activate the system, which is really not the purpose of the system.
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The entire system needs to be reworked, then. It's absolutely affecting normal matches and even worse against m1 killers without map traversal. They naturally are forced to stay in the middle of the map, as they can't afford to travel to far away gens. It also affects all killers where survivors only focus on specific gens only. For example, Orlando main building gen is almost guaranteed to be permanently blocked early on in the match due to how many Survivors groups throw themselves st that center gen.
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If a Killer is 3-genning from the start then that means they aren't defending the other gens. It also means they are not putting nearly as much pressure (getting downs/hooks) as a Killer that chases (which is what the aim is).
If the system only kicked-in at 1 gen remaining (or maybe 2 to account for Killers that can defend better than others like Singu and Skully but imo 1 gen would be perfectly fine) then infinite games would go away simply because Survivors could merely ignore the 3-gen in favor of doing the other gens first (like what happened in the cursed Team Eternal match that started this whole debacle).
As it is now, the system simply kills so many perks the moment the Survivors start to get a kernel of game-sense and experience, it's even possible for SWF to use the limit to purposefully give a free endgame.
Surveillance, Nowhere to Hide, Dragon's Grip, Trail of Torment, Unforeseen, every regression perks other than Pop and Pain Res etc. are simply no longer worth the perk slot if playing a Killer on the weaker end of the spectrum and you reached the point where Survivors kinda-know what they are doing. Weaker Killers need slowdown and perks like Surge and Eruption simply don't offer enough regression for being a limited resource. Even with Pop and Pain Res, Survivors can out-repair gens with the right perks/items.
Why bring Nowhere to Hide if Survivors might have Distortion, be in a locker or simply pre-ran? That was 1/8 kicks wasted for 0 perk value and a measly 5% (it's nothing let's not deny it, the Knight's guards did the same before the limit was implemented). The same principle apply to every non-regression kick perks, why bring them for a chance to get some info or temporary stealth if it ends up being a wasted slot? If winning is the goal then simply bringing Pop, Pain Res, Grim Embrace/Deadlock and DMS is the way to go since it offers the most slowdown for the least amount of regression events.
There's a reason why tunnelling went sky-high since that update, weaker Killers have less time and (since STBFL and now Sloppy are now also nerfed in the wrong way) have less options to compensate for their weaker/longer chases. Pop and Pain Res were already among the top picks but this just made it even worse because it's not just a question of them being picked often, it's a matter of so many perks no longer being picked because of it.
The system itself isn't worthless, the idea is sound (especially with Killers like Skull Merchant existing) but having it active the whole trial affects way more than just those endless stalemates (and the devs specifically stated that the mechanic is not there to affect normal gameplay, which is absolutely does right now), it shifts the whole meta and pushes weaker Killers to tunnel more to compensate and lowers perk and Killer viability further at a higher level (which is something that should be avoided since variety is one of the key things making DBD stand out from every other assyms and it's most fun aspect when it actually shows up). The system does prevent Killers from 3-genning from the start, but it also does infinitely more and it shouldn't.
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What does it matter that the other Gens are not defended? It does not matter if the other 4 Gens have 0 Progress, 99% Progress or are completed, as long as the Killer is holding the 3-Gen.
If the system would only kick in with 1 Gen remaining, this means that the Survivors would have to cause a 3-Gen. So they have to play badly in order for the system to kick in and most likely it will be easy for the Killer at this point, since they will still have their 3-Gen and most likely no ressources left in it.
Saying that it should only kick in when 1 Gen is remaining just shows that not much thought was put into that idea.
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So in your opinion, the Survivors playing badly (not repairing the gens that are undefended/repairing all gens that are near each other instead of spacing them out to avoid a 3-gen, like it was before) should not put them in a bad position?
A Killer that guards and never leaves his 3-gen from the start, if the Survivors do the other gens, will most likely have to face a team in much better shape (less hooks, likely no deaths, more pallets).
With the current iteration of the system, if the Survivors are decent and manage to not lose a member until there's one gen left, even if the Killer did not intend to 3-gen, there's a good chance that they kicked at least one of those gens a couple of times (even more so if regression perk(s) were used) which means that even if the Survivors did the gens without accounting for a possible 3-gen, the Killer suddenly has to deal with the fact that he has at least one gen that can't be regressed for much longer which forces them into prioritizing one gen over the others (which basically means they lost, especially if they aren't among the powerhouses) despite not intending to 3-gen and simply ending up in this situation due to the Survivors not dying before.
If the system only kicked-in during lategame, then Survivors that didn't account for gen order will have to deal with a full difficult 3-gen battle that will likely take a while due to the tiny "playground" they created BUT that can't be infinite due to the limit (I'd honestly take the regression events being reduced to 6-7 if it meant only being during the last gen). It would be fair, other regression perks and non-regression kick perks would be useable again at a higher level and weaker/M1 Killers wouldn't need to count every regression events and sometimes concede gens simply because the Survivors were persistent enough or always pre-ran before they could start a chase.
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