Why do the devs want the game to be so easy for killers?
Playing survivor is terrible but when I play killer it's not fun getting 4k after 4k because there's no challenge. Why do the devs want this?
Comments
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Why would they want the less popular role to be difficult to play?
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This is honestly where I am at with playing, especially during events. Survivor, at least SoloQ, is just becoming more and more of a dice roll on the outcome of the match. Very little to do with anything you are personally doing to ensure any fun or escaping. Everything up to ... just chance. There are SO many systems that just are not in place to restrict bad actors on the killer side of things, or even your own teammates, from completely ruining your experience.
This is something that Texas Chainsaw does so much better. Where you can play Solo and not have this MASSIVE reliance on what your team is doing.
On the killer side of things, if you understand how to play the game at a decent level, you have to start restricting yourself if you actually want a challenge. And even when you do, you still win a majority of your games to the point of it being a full stomp. You have to use one of the weaker killers... go in with no addons, maybe dont take certain perks, to really have a chance at losing as killer.
Might be time to revisit TCM, because this game is just going in a direction, especially with the latest killer changes, and addition, that the game is just a bit silly now.
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Because they balance the game around mid to mid high mmr. It's only "super easy" for killers at low mmr. As mmr goes up, it becomes much harder for killers unless they are playing nurse/blight which stomps at high mmr.
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So the rest of the playerbase who cannot 4k every match have to struggle more because you're a god?
Have you tried making the game more challenging for yourself?
- Play without meta perks
- Play without any perks
- Go for 12 hooks without hooking the same survivor twice
- Only use your power
- Only use basic attacks
Go look at Otzdarva's channel to see the challenges he put himself through for more elaborate ideas. 🤷♂️
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I play killer using the same build every match and I'm trying to remove variables from my playstyle so that SBMM can put me against the correct players, but it doesn't happen. I'm lucky if I get 1 kill. This is fine, but this should ALSO mean that my rating drops because of the 3 survivors who escaped. That is not the case if I am repeatedly getting matches where I barely get 1 kill.
If players couldn't lobby shop, which makes the backfill mechanic throw me into a match where I can easily 4k, my rating wouldn't be spiking up and causing me to be mismatched in the future. (Even then, the devs have said that the game very often knows the outcomes of matches. If survivors of a lower rating are matched against a killer of a much higher rating, the game limits the damage to all the player's rating anyway. So my rating should be largely unaffected by backfill matches.)
Who knows
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As a killer main who has over 1000 hrs in the game now, I cant say I have a lot of easy matches. Sure I get a few matches a night where I get an easy win bc either someone DCs or kills themselves on the hook but most of my matches range from ok to really hard. For example today I played two matches as Unknown. My first match was really hard, I got I think 6 or 7 hooks and got one kill. The survivors played really well, looped me well, and dodged the UVA wonderfully. The one person I end up killing was most likely the weakest player in the lobby. Now the match after that was a completely different story where I had an easy time but only because one of the Fengs decided to bring no mither and Sables' gen basement perk. I saw her with BBQ and went to the basement and the second I down her she DCed, shortly after that someone else DC and then it was GG. I ended up letting the other Feng go since I felt bad.
I get more of the first match on any of the killers I play a lot than the 2nd match where the survivors just kinda gave up. Overall guess what Im saying is I think for the avg killer I don't think the game is all that easy at least not as easy as what a lot of ppl make it out to be. I think it seems really easy to killer bc sometimes the matchmaking not work as well as it should.
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Never played against good survivors huh? Because when you do, you get humbled pretty fast.
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It is more like majority of the killers come out and want them to change everything to their favor. But as soon as a survivor main does that they come and talk them down in how powerful and unfair it is as survivor, while meanwhile killers got a wall hack for everything but the survivors without any perks, can use dirty playstyles without get any trouble get adept trophies for free and do not even have to really earn it anymore.
The problem here are the killer mains who do not want to become better but get the game changed so they can do as they please. It is boring as a killer. You have such a big advantage that you will get the 4k in most cases without even really trying. That is why I play my killer rounds in a fun way. Not to forget that most killers act like their whole life would be on the line when they wont win a match, so they go full on dirty in the matches right from the start.
And you here got also some of the examples I mentioned before. Tell you "that you never met good survivors" means an excuse for playing dirty, because he met the few full on hardmode survivors, therefore the killer NEED to be dirty in the matches. It is useless to make a argument there since every valid argument will be smashed with senseless excuses which does not even are anywhere logical the more you think about it.
The devs react to the wants of the killers and do not listen to survivors, because survivors ALWAYS will be talked down or gaslighted, as soon as they dare to say ANYTHING. That is the biggest issue the devs should consider here.
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There's no shortage of killers. On EU there's a survivor bonus 90% of the time. The question is why would they want to put 80% of their players at an unfair and unfun disadvantage to appease killer mains.
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The only PvP game where the playerbase (both sides) want to complete their objectives with as little obstruction and inconvenience as possible.
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I thought EU survivors were better than that.
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I don't know but it's getting exhausting, there is little to much you can do now with killers slugging on purpose to draw the match out in solo queue, the maps are way too small now so pressure is easier than ever and 3 genning is easier than ever, the 3 gen fix doesnt do enough (it should have been focused on 3 genning not what they implemented).
Skull Merchant still hasn't been dealt with, she is the most unfun thing to interact with.
Most of the new killers are easy enough to play but very hard for survivors to survive against.
Hooks are too easy to win the game by, camping them with scourge hooks and hyper mobility for free pressure. I really feel hook durations need extended still to compensate for the increased gen times.
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The devs knew SM was busted for a year because they have the data, and they did nothing. How is any killer with a 70% kill rate not being hotfixed asap. This game can no longer be taken seriously as a competitive game.
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It has never been a competitive game.
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It never was a competitive game, and it most likely never will be.
Besides, Skull Merchant's kill rates are caused by hook suicides, not actual strength. She is not impossible to defeat.
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Keep in mind this is a party game. And even Cote said they want the killer to feel like this powerful force to be rekon with. It's also why in a recent interview he was fine with nurse being this OP killer that's very fast at getting downs when played well. It puts the survivors in a horror setting where the pressure gets very high. But they seem to be fine with their 60/40 win split I guess. Although I wish they could do better at making the experience better on both sides
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Why do I always get this feeling that so many of these "KILLER IS EZ" posts are survivor players who rarely or never play killer?
I play both sides equally - usually whichever has the BP bonus - and I don't find killer to be easy at all. Especially when I'm a non-S-tier M1 killer, survivors have no problem hopping from loop to loop, dropping pallets and making chases last a while.
Is your argument that killer is easy based on your experience as a killer player? If so, I'd love to see videos of your gameplay so you can show us all how easy it is.
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People still dont understand the difference of horror and unfairness.
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Assumptive, but no have challenging matches sometimes, but they are usually do to some restriction put in play by myself. Or on the other extreme end of that, comp SWF teams. These are extreme, rare, occurrences that do not show up often even for people who play this game as a career.
So what I said still stands for killer, you are left with challenging matches that YOU HAD to cause on killer since Solo's really just dont stand a chance due to a lack of systems in place..., or you go up against something that is blatantly not intended like comp SWF's. And still have a high chance at 3/4k if you play one of the stronger/broken killers ie: Blight/Nurse/Billy/Wesk/Spirit/Unknown... or use silly addons like Black incense plague or Tombstone/Piece Meyers...With the remaining majority of your killer matches ... just pub stomps.
Literally Hens, a comp tourney player, on stream against a nurse. Gets tunneled out of the game at 4 gens yesterday. So just imagine us lol.
And then again, the survivor SoloQ side is just ... a mess.
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The game isn't always easy for killers. I know I like to say how good killers have it in this game a lot but I've also played long enough to see many killers get completely dunked on. A SWF team against a trapper for example will usually have a big advantage because they call out where his traps are with their team. There's also certain maps that don't work well with some killers.
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Playing killer sure isn't easy or braindead or a piece of cake from my side of the screen. The survivors i usually verse are using every trick in the book and play as BP to the walls as possible and give not a single quarter ... until the next game, where suddenly one DCs 40s into the game, because they went down to a basic mindgame and the next unalives themselves on the first hook.
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And if you ask them to show us their skills with some videos/live stream they come up with excuses to not to or they just disappear.
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Ironically, horror is defined by unfairness.
Stephen King puts it this way, “Nightmares exist outside of logic, and there’s little fun to be had in explanations; they’re antithetical to the poetry of fear.”
He even brings up a quote from the movie, The Strangers. When the main character asks the intruders why they are doing this, one of the killers simply replies, “Because you were home”.
But I totally do understand that it can feel bleak at times when playing Survivor.
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If you think killer is too easy, keep playing it. Either you realize you're a DbD master or the problem solves itself.
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Killrates have historically been higher at high MMR than overall.
I think it'd be a better idea to look at killer gameplay and think of gameplay improvements for it, rather than making the other role also unappealing.
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Not according to their recent stats. A lot of killers are actually way underperforming the intended 60% kill rate (60% kill rate means winning slightly under half their matches, as it's almost in the middle of a 2k and a 3k. 62.5% is the true middle ground).
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Look, let's cut to the chase.
We should balance around a 75% KR
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For a survivor, getting out (even if the other three die) is a win.
For a killer, survivors insist that they should be content with a 2k.
Why are survivors not content with getting 3 gens?
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BHVR wants it to be possible for a killer to beat a 4 man SWF that knows how to play. Unfortunately, if it is possible for a killer to beat that group, then it is impossible for a solo queue team to beat that killer. The disparity is that great.
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I haven't lost a killer game this entire season so far but a few of these games have come very close and I acknowledge I probably try much harder than the average killer.
Looking through the lens of a more casual killer I can see the game being fairly balanced tbh. If you're finding games too easy and are bored I suggest playing lower tier killers like Freddy and Trapper and see if the game is still too easy for you.
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It would I agree. But then it'd also take more money and effort to do so.
Which means...
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I'd be content if i could get more points even if i don't escape. Don't really get the horror feeling after 5,500 hours so it gets boring fast when every match is almost impossible to escape from the start.
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That would be awful. That would mean the killers on average win all of their matches. The middle ground between not winning and winning is 62.5%. The devs want it to be 60% which means winning roughly half their matches with an occasional extra loss in there. At the moment, a lot of killers are actually in the low to mid 50 percenttile on kills...way underperforming.
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Honestly I am mostly fine with it how it is, as the game was stupidly survivor sided for the longest time and I say this as a survivor main myself (though I have played a lot of killer).
The only issues I personally have is killers stacking 3-4 gen slowdown perks and especially on top tier killers and the tunnelling epidemic at present.
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Unless playing on PC has radically changed his viewpoint, he's being very sarcastic.
The 62.5% is only true if you presume an equal distribution of game end conditions (0k, 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k).
More importantly, the thread is about discussing whether the devs kill rate design is actually good.
Additionally, you say 'a lot of killers are actually in the low to mid 50'. That's incorrect. A single killer is in the low 50s, Doctor, and the most likely explanation I've heard for this is his use to farm shards.
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Stop dredging this up, it is flatly wrong. The outcome of the average match =/= winrate. 60% is massively killer-sided.
Also, the recent stats do not disprove the statement that killrates are higher at high MMR.
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That's the problem you literally need to blindfold yourself to make killer challenging sometimes. Doesn't matter how good you are at survivor doing a 4man our streak or even a 3man out streak is nearly impossible these days.
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Facts are a real bummer. Must really hate math, eh? A 75+% kill rate in a match is a win with a 3k+. A 50% kill rate in a match is not a win with only a 2k. 75% is the minimum for a win. At 62.5%, it's the halfway point between on average always winning and on average not winning. Essentially, it's a 50% win rate. Going down just a few percent to 60% generally still means they are expected to win roughly half their matches, but with an occasional extra loss when averaging several matches. I know you spout that kills have nothing to do with winning, but come on, it literally does. 3k+ is how a killer wins a match. We don't want to killers to have an average of a 75% kill rate because on average they'd always win. We don't want them to have a 50% kill rate because on average they'd never win. That's why they go with 60%, on average over a period of matches, that grey area between those two numbers gives them room to both win and not win on average. 62.5% is the true middle point, but they opted to drop it down to 60%. With that bring said, we have several killers in low to mid 50% which means they are a lot closer to only getting a 2k every match than if they were at the intended 60%.
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Pretty sure I explained this to you already, but riddle me this: What are the kill and winrates across the following three matches?
Match 1: 0K
Match 2: 3K
Match 3: 3K
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If I recall correctly, it's just Doctor, a free Killer, that is sitting at the bottom of the barrel. He still kills more than two Survivors per game, of course. I could only imagine the ######### storm that would occur if it was revealed a Killer had a 39% KR.
The game was more enjoyable when Kill Rates were closer to 50%. Since SWF and Solo are fairly close in Escape Rates now, I think it would be better to move more in that direction. Back when we had those KR's, SWF's were escaping up to 15% more, that is no longer the case.
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Yeah but how much of that is attributable to Killers being overpowered vs. SoloQ survivors not playing well?
How many times have you seen a random player running around aimlessly for 45s to 90s trying to find a totem to break for Inner Strength or a chest to try to get a medkit, instead of doing gens? Some people are doing tome challenges. I see this kind stuff a lot, and it's only since I've been playing with some pretty high skill players that I've started to notice it.
If you wanna get an idea of how daft people can play in SoloQ, take Kindred and Empathy, and just watch what people do... it's quite eye opening.
Really think about it, if the Survivors are making these kinds of mistakes, and not playing efficiently... how weak do you want the killer to be to make it so the 1 or 2 survivors playing seriously can win, when their teammates are making these kinds of mistakes and/or being this inefficient?
I've faced SWF teams who try to goof off, hit me with sabos, flashlight saves, etc, etc, as a pre-buff Pig and I've absolutely smashed them. I've also played against soloQ teams who were all running perks like Distortion, Lithe, WoO, We'll Make It, Deja Vu, with decent medkits and toolboxes, and gotten absolutely rinsed even as a Spirit on Dead Dawg... and I didn't play noticably bad... I made no serious mistakes, I was pretty efficient with my chases, I held onto the core 4 generators well... I mean maybe I wasn't quite mean enough camping hooks and tunneling hard... but I wasn't a slouch... and I still got pretty comfortably whooped...
What the problem for SoloQ is you have casual players mixed in with serious players. If you get 4 serious players in soloQ, you can get pretty hard matches as killer... but you get 4 survivors not on the same page (and thats the usual case)... and you get some pretty big chinks to exploit in the survivor teams armour.
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A perfect article that captures the current situation. The sad truth is that almost no one is at a level where they can realize this. The number of people who only care about the kill rate far outweighs the number of people who can talk about whether they made a mistake or did a good job with each action.
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Anyone who says they get 4Ks easily without much context probably aren't being very transparent.
They have a lot to say about the Survivor experience, enough that one can tell they know a fair bit about the role
But when it comes to talking about their Killer experience, it's usually one sentence and involves 4k, some variation of the word "easy", no meta perks used or using weak Killers.
At least try to be realistic and say 3k instead of 4k, anyone who's played Killer long enough knows that 3k is the more common experience than consecutive 4k
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50% kr is balanced. Anything else isn't. You can't just say "draws" don't count when it's 2k.
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killer is easy for those part-time killer because they are located near initial MMR😂
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Can confirm I'm on EU servers and BPs are on the survivor role 90% of the time. Survivors are quitting and I don't blame them.
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Increase your MMR. When you reach a different level, it wont be that easy anymore.
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Disagree. BP-Bonus is on survivor at the daytime and it switches to Killer at 6/7pm for the entire night.
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Hard disagree
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As you get to high mmr on killer your opinion will change a lot.
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Disagree.
3K's aren't uncommon, but I've still found that 4K's are more common.
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