Killers that relied on tunneling are gonna have a reality check when the update goes live
killers are gonna be facing alot more decisive strike which is a good thing this is healthy for the game decisive by no means was a awful perk but against range it was useless
I hope every one starts running it again and realize they can fight back against tunneling instead of complaining
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Don't hold your breath. The patch isn't live yet, and the DS change still has to get through the PTB and what will undoubtedly be an avalanche of complaining about the new timing.
I might be shocked if it makes it live at 5s, 'due to feedback'.
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You say that, but even when DS was at its strongest, people still complained about tunneling.
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It’s not going to be the reality check you think it is.
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I feel like we're going back to DS + Unbreakable meta, certainly wasn't expecting that.
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If they don't re-add the DS resistance effect back onto Enduring like they said in the past then I'm just gonna face camp as Tombstone Myers to completely bypass DS in retaliation.
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If someone is going to tunnel, they will do regardless. These updates won't change those players.
What it hopefully will do is encourage players who feel they are reliant on tunnelling to push out of their comfort zones, improve their gameplay, gain experience and realise tunnelling isn't a necessity.
Unless it's the SAS elite squad of survivors, for most pub players tunnelling is not the only option. Just need some confidence and experience.
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I hope every one starts running it again and realize they can fight back against tunneling instead of complaining
I play on Switch. I've never been able to hit that skill check due to the inconsistent input lag, low fps, and constant frame drops. A one second stun, a thirty second stun, it doesn't matter, the perk has always been useless for players having to deal with DbD's horrible performance issues. I can look forward to continuing to be tunneled by every Switch killer and not be able to do anything about it. Yay.
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I wouldn't say having a survivor not on death hook body blocking the killer with OTR then body blocking again and going down to use either UB or DS as "healthy for the game".
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There's also the fact that the average survivor probably dont have the perks because its locked behind RNG or a licensed chapter
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It won't change anything. If you are hit with a DS you will not change target, on the contrary, you will continue with the same one since he lost one of his defenses. They only change will probably be the return of some killers slugging to avoid DS.
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enjoy that while you can. Myers is getting reworked.
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I know that, but it's gonna be temporary because either the DS buff just isn't gonna stay entirely or they're gonna be buffing Enduring again to work on all stuns again due to them getting pressured into it since these kinds of changes always result in so much backlash that BHVR ends up doing something about it.
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Oh, it will be just like old times: survivors will bring DS every game, killers will still down them, but will slug them, then people will come to the forums and complain that killers are slugging a lot… while using a perk that is only countered by slugging.
Can't wait to see it. It should be nostalgic.
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No, they really aren't.
Buffing DS doesn't do much for stopping tunneling, especially not with all of the anti-loop powers in the game at the moment.
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When DS had the 5 second stun duration in the past that was STRICTLY so it couldn't just be insta-countered by Enduring bringing the stun time from 3 seconds to 0.75 seconds and it was certainly promised that it'd be kept at 3 seconds as long as it wasn't able to be countered by Enduring meaning that if DS is being brought back up to 5 seconds then Enduring also needs to be brought back up to counter it.
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Oh boy, how many times have I heard this argument in the past five years.
The answer is pretty clearly no, as there wouldn't be a point to buffing Decisive otherwise.
Comments made over SIX years ago have very little relevance today.
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It still doesn't work at endgame, which is where it was a problem, so it should be fine. Early-game tunneling should be costly.
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Killers will still tunnel and just push through DS.
The only thing the Dev did was to revert the unneccessary Nerf they did back then when they wanted to "shake up the Meta". They would need to do far more to do anything remotely useful against tunneling.6 -
They're also changing the stab animation so it might actually be faster and you get dropped quicker. I think the issue with 3 seconds is that the stun starts before you can actually start running effectively only giving you like 2-2.5 seconds to get away. With the new stun duration and potential faster animation it might be too strong at 5 seconds.
Using it aggressively with OTR & DH might become problematic if multiple people start stacking those perks.
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You can eat 1 DS but trying to eat all 4 can be game losing.
People are going to have learn to ping pong between two survivors like you used to. It's not gonna be reality warping but the newer killers that rely on solely tunneling people out one by one are definitely gonna have a harder time which good they should.
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I mean the 5 seconds wasn't really needed. 4 seconds is the max I would have gone.
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It will make things better, but it won't be a reality check.
Older players are used to DS having a 5 seconds stun, they know how to deal with it. Players who have an over-reliance on tunneling will either power through the stun or resort to slugging. I wonder if we will return to the DS + UB meta, that would be fun.
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let it become problematic i wait for this.
if all the survs start using it offensive bhvr needs to act and its the survivors own fault that they loose ds again
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A wesker that is tunneling me through infection does not care about DS. I am inflicted by 7% hindered.
A blight that is tunneling me is not going notice much of distance loss from 5 → 3.
DS changes punishes low-tier killer for tunneling making them less viable in higher-tiers of play. The reality check is going to be that survivors are going to get tunneled with or without DS.
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Exactly.
The thing is, they exceeded my expectations (I thought it will be 4 seconds and thats it), but they need to do more to prevent tunneling. Disabling the Killers power for a few seconds would be one thing. This would turn the strongest Killer into M1-Killers and actually M1-Killers would be less affected by it (a Trapper who cannot place traps has a smaller loss of power to his actual basekit than a Wesker who cannot dash).
I will probably run the Perk again, but I have the feeling that I will remove it from my loadout quite quickly because Killers are so determined to tunnel that DS will not do much.
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I doubt it. DS will not fix tunneling. It's a licensed perk, so not everyone has it and if I absolutely want to tunnel, then I will tunnel through your DS. It worked pre 6.1.0 and it will work again. There need to be further changes to fix the issue.
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no such thing people that has been playing for years already experienced 5 second DS.. but okay..
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I feel so vindicated by this change!
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Don’t do that, they’ll just nerf Daddy Myers. I don’t want that.
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Well sure, because DS is still just a bandaid fix. What we really need are more basekit changes that help with tunneling, but a buff to DS is at least a good start.
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The buff won't prevent tunneling in any way but it will make it less effective on average, lowering kill rates of killers that like to tunnel a bit, which is a good start. Of course ideally we would get some basekit change so people don't have to rely on one perk as much.
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my thought is that DS is gatekeeper perk that punishes weak killer for tunneling. You won't use the perk to counter tunneling. you'll use it to punish weak killers for attempting to tunnel because the DS will gives free wins vs weak killers or weak killer players that play a high-tier killer poorly.
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dont forget about dead hard as well.
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Because tunneling sure stopped before when it was at 5 seconds…
This really just incentivizes bodyblocking off hook even more than it does now, and mostly punishes slower killers if a few survivors decide to run OTR/DS/Unbreakable. Tunneling requires a lot more than this to fix, and I guarantee killers will still tunnel after eating a 5 second stun.
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Honestly fine by me. I don't tunnel anyway but I will say if a survivor come at me and get in the way of me going after thier unhooker, hope they be ready to lay on the ground. Enjoy being slugged when using a defensive perk as a weapon. Also, I'm looking forward to the chance when killrates drop below 60% because that just means killers will get buffed :3
With all that said I still think it's sad that an anti tunnel perk is locked behind a $5 paywall. I agree with Otz's opinion that I rather them turn one of the useless free survivor perks into DS so at least everyone has access to it.1 -
That DS also didn't have any deactivation conditions and could be used without requiring an unhook. It was just a flat 'stun the killer' perk.
Current DS is tied up in a bunch of extra conditions to hone it into being an anti-tunnel perk.
They are not the same thing and should not be treated as such.
Tunnelling was weaker though.
And no, DS is terrible for offensive use precisely because it has counterplay for that.
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I lived through the old DS weaponization, it was horrendous for trying to spread hooks because survivors would go out of their way to be tunneled to use DS. It was even worse on maps with doorways so they can stand there and take the hit, saving whoever you were trying to chase, and put you in a lose/lose situation if you pick them up or leave them alone and risk them running Unbreakable while your original target is at a new set of tiles.
And with OTR being the way it is, it can guarantee those 40 seconds gives you endurance so unless the killer waits >half a gen's time to try and pick you up, it's still in their favor for the pace of the match.
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Tunneling isn't fixed by perks it's fixed by a gameplay overhaul
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I lived through that too, and apart from one (1) time, every single instance of survivors trying to pull this trick resulted in a 4K.
Taking one singular hit for someone in exchange for
- A hook state
- Inactivity between unhook and bodyblock
- Recovery time
- A second single-use perk in UB
Is NOT a bad deal for the killer, not by a long shot. If you just ignore the DS bodyblocker and continue the chase, the survivors come out way, WAY worse off it.
That one time it didn't result in a 4K was when I was stupid and ate the most obvious DS-bait. But then I learned my lesson and never fell for it again.
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That's the kicker- DS is very strong if you use it properly. If you're going down, go down near a pallet or window. Killer picks up, DS, and bam, you just got to a pallet or window and have reset the chase, again. That's incredibly useful.
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What is the counter play to a survivor using DS offensively?
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Do not press spacebar.
That's it.
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Not really. It only is really gonna affect the weaker killers which usually it doesn't matter if they tunnel cause that still isn't enough for them to win, while killers like nurse and blight it wont do anything meaningful. Also reverting it to 5 seconds is gonna bring back DS + UB and that was very unhealthy. It will be weaker sure, but it's still gonna be really good.
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As to your points about Switch performance, use the FSR Sharpening settings, you have to set it every time you open the game for some reason- this helps performance a lot when set to 100%
Also, buy this item, I don't play without it and it significantly improves things
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Right so that avoids the stun. But if a survivor takes OTR and DS and makes it to where you end up dropping chase because they are body blocked then would you not picking up a be a counter? Isn't that still using the perk offensively, and the survivor comes out ahead?
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In a lot of cases you CAN'T ignore the bodyblocker, especially in doorways/small corridors. I don't know how to explain that the loss of time in chase = you're forced to do even more loops and have insane amounts of time wasted. Especially when all 4 survivors run this build and bodyblock for each other.
Again, the problem for most killers is time management, and with these builds survivors could add far too much time simply by forcing the killer to focus them. Even if you leave them on the ground that's lost distance to your target, they're at a new tile set, 2 other survivors are doing gens the entire time and you still need to worry if the bodyblocker still has OTR active during the bodyblock, if they have DS active while on the ground, or if they have UB or an Exponential totem around if you decide to leave them alone.
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