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Do you feel that by running non meta perks you are being punished?
From a survivors POV, if I don't run at least 2 solo gen rush perks I am usually dead before the game ends because most random teammates refuse to do gens.
Perks that aren't meta also just don't do enough. This usually means that these specific perks are fun to use but don't help the game in any way whatsoever.
For example, friendly competition. From my POV it's a fun perk, but in almost all of my matches with randoms they refuse to 2 stack a gen or once they have the perk they run off and do nothing with it.
Other perks that should be fun to use also punish you for using it, for example potential energy, you have to take a reduced amount of gen speed to initially hit max stacks, then you have to transport it to another gen, then you also have to make sure you don't get hit or you will lose the entirety of your progress, there's also missing a skill check that removes some tokens as well, 4 disadvantages and 1 gain where a killer is heavily able to 3 gen camp? It makes 0 sense.
Teamwork perks definitely need another look at too because I feel like you are punished when you should be benefitting from them, some require you to stay in a specific distance between each other but also force you to guess how far this is, a simple blue circle around the 2 survivors using the perk (and only them seeing it) could easily resolve an issue like this.
I personally think perks should feel powerful but not oppressive, and with most perks they just lack at doing even that.
Comments
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nope not at all I personally think Gen perks are absolutely boring to use so they are never in my loadout
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From a solo survivors perspective I feel like I could run no perks and my win rate would not significantly change. This game is Mario Party for solo players, nothing really matters most of the time. Great game design.
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Gen rush perks? I'd say anti-tunnel is way better. Also Reassurance is slept on, you never see it in solo q even though its very usable there.
If all my teammates ran atleast OTR you'd get way more outs. If you exclude people constantly giving up or unhooking after 10 seconds instead of giving some hooktime. Yes solo q teammates, time on hook = good! Hanging on the hook prevents you from getting tunneled!
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Could argue the same for killers without gen slowdown. If you play anything short of the top 5 killers, it's very brave to take a build without any slowdown perks, especially if you don't tunnel or camp at all.
As someone who almost always plays off meta for both sides... the game is way more fun for me when I don't run full meta... but you have to go in knowing there is a real possibility of getting spanked.... and not the good kind... your Grandma after you smashed her best China kind 😏
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Yes and no. There are a lot of perk builds I try to make work like sabo builds, heal builds, escape builds, endgame builds, etc. The problem is i have to run them multiple times to get value out of them even once due to the killer and perks they are against. Some killers and perks completely negate entire builds which is fine and why I run jack of all trades type builds now. A little bit of healing, something chase oriented, something for anti tunnel and usually a flashlight or medkit related perk depending on if I'm going for saves or long chases.
The problems with some builds like sabo or saves is they get you tunneled out pretty early on unless you wait until endgame to utilize them.
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I don't experience that myself. As a randomizer I do see many perks are more useful than people are led to believe, and some perks have saved my skin on many occasions, which you wouldn't normally expect.
On top of that, gaining experience and practicing skills will give much more value in surviving than any perk would.
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I don't feel like I'm punished. Maybe putting a handicap on myself because I'd rather run weirder/non-meta perks but I prefer dying with fun perks than escaping with boring perks.
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Fun fact: you don't need gen rush perks to gen rush.
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I have never once played a match as either survivor or killer and thought I was being "punished" for using any non-meta perks. That's honestly such a stupid mentality.
Perk synergy is one of my favorite things to explore in this game, so running the same 4 survivor perks just because they're the best or running 4 slowdown perks on killer is so boring to me. I love exploring the niche.1 -
Gen slowdown perks are mandatory for a lot of the killer roster, and that sucks.
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As a killer, currently yes, it feels punishing. But like, usually I don't play full meta anyway, but I bring one or two gen defense perks at best, like Grim Embrace and/or Pop to help to avoid the stress that dealing with gen-rushing can bring. But when I bring NO meta perks, no gen-blocking or gen regression perks, well, the difference can be felt immediatly and the game tends to be way more stressful.
But this is something that has been happening recently probably due to the more strict MMR. I've been facing more and more survivors who are not only very skilled and coordinated, but also bring the strongest full-meta stuff al the time. Never before I've faced so many strong teams in a row. There was even a night I kept facing multiple p400 squads until I ended up going against a comp team (which is something really rare to see in public matchmaking). Hell, there was even a day I tried playing with a MEME BUILD and immediatly went against a team with full meta perks, 4 items with iri add-ons (BNPs and Syringes) and a map offering. Until a while ago, that was a rare sight, something that only happened once in a while between multiple chill matches. But now it feels that whenever I pick up a completely off-meta build, a niche build or a meme build, there is a huge chance of running into a sweaty game. This is quite frustrating because, honestly, the most fun part of the game is trying new builds.
But to be fair, when I stay at least a couple of weeks without playing and then come back, the sweatyness seems to ease up a little bit, I believe it's the MMR lowering due to inactivity, but I could be wrong.
And when I play survivor… to be honest, I play completely off-meta almost all the time and it feels fine. Like, I play solo, so I often have bad matches, but to me the bad matches happen not because of my build, but because of people giving up on hook right at the start (the biggest problem, by far) or the weak link being tunneled and killed insanely early. When nobody gives up and nobody dies extremely fast, my solo survivor matches tend to be more fun now than they were for years. But my MMR is obviously lower as a survivor than as a killer, it has probably something to do with it.
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100% I do. Unless I play with my friends most of my teammates lack the mental capacity to pass one skill check, let alone do gens at all—or go to unhook someone before they hit stage three, on their first hook. It's less that I need to run ALL meta, it's that I need at least Plot Twist for a self heal and Prove as a way of forcing my teammates to think "HM GENERATOR GOOD" to not get stomped. Unless I'm with my friends. I still run Plot Twist, then, because it is also a really fun perk.
And as a killer, I'm just saying I have never seen survivors that don't play in a way that's caked in grime and Distortion. Every time I try to play a killer I enjoy in spite of being weak I am met with the most obnoxious gameplay possible. Now, I'm not saying all survivors play like that, that's ridiculous. I'm just saying survivors have not proved such a thing wrong yet.
This game does an impeccable job of matching you with survivors that make you regret playing this game for fun.
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No. Even when I use meta perks I'm usually dead by the time the game ends. So I prefer to use non-meta unless I'm doing a challenge or tome that using a meta perk will help me complete faster.
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As Survivor, naw, I predominantly lose regardless because the Killer will just tunnel the first person weaker than the Killer.
As Killer, yeah, people are expecting the Killer to turbo tunnel and bring things to speed gens up as fast as possible.0 -
I stopped running meta builds about 2 1/2 years ago and yes, I do feel that the game punishes me for it. On killer more so than on survivor (although that might have to do with my survivor MMR being probably lower than my killer MMR). Playing without slowdown really shows you some glaring issues and it also helps understanding why regression perks are so popular.
The game simply outpaces you otherwise. A match can easily end in less than 5 minutes and delaying the killer for that long does not require a lot of effort (assuming it's not a top tier Nurse). Just think about how much time a killer loses just from running around the map and hooking survivors. That's easily a minute for every 3 chases. Now factor in how much time you actually need for a chase. That can easily exceed a minute. So you get about 3 chases in 4 minutes, if you're somewhat quick. This also assumes, that there is nothing out of the ordinary like the odd flashlight / pallet save, sabo play, a mistake in chase that allows the survivor to make extra distance, strong main building or tile, Buckle Up + FTP etc.
With slowdown perks you can slow the game, so that you can actually win by chases and while I would agree that 4 slowdown perks are a bit over the top (and possibly too strong), no slowdown is even worse of an issue.
As a solo queue survivor I find that I get a lot of value out of a variety of perks. Of course there is not really an alternative to exhaustion perks (which are meta) but I've been running Open Handed + Bond for a while and it's honestly amazing how much you can do with such information. CoH can also give you a lot of value, although it's less consistent. I also like Shadow Step (which will become even more powerful with the upcoming change to UW). They won't work every match but when they do, they really make a big difference.
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The most "gen-rush" i play is Deja vu though I'm sure people would through their hands up and call me a boring gen jockey for getting a whopping 6% faster gen speed on one of 3 gens. Depending on if I'm playing with my friend in Japan, solo, or my friends in America my build sort of varies. On the Japan server i take self-care botany (because everyone and their mother seems to run that over there) along with calm spirit and some OTR for good measure because I tend to get tunneled out being the survivor with the highest ping.
In a match with my 2 American friends I tend to run whatever I want except I usually always bring distortion because it allows for good call-outs on aura perks, of course if you knew the quality of my friends play you would soon realize that, while that sounds sweaty, it does not lead to even a remotely higher chance of winning. NA solo-queue though I've learned to stop caring and just do whatever it takes to escape even if that means just leaving people to die though since it's an event I tend to bring what can net me larger point gains/ give me the quickest path to completing challenges.
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I don’t feel punished at all but there’s something unique that I feel whenever I’m running 4 slowdowns on killer
And I’ve been running way to many of those recently
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On survivor I can run anything or nothing and it does not matter too much. It has been similar to what was stated earlier that the big difference is what kind of player is the other survivors. If they are trying it’s a good time. If they are trolls or quitters it makes the trial challenging to say the least.
On killer once you hit that sweet spot in mmr you will be shown why the slowdown perks are needed. You also will be taunted for losing or winning there lol. It feels like something needs to be done to naturally slow the game and then scale back the slowdown perks to bring a “better” “balance”.
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After all, the gen rush perks are worthless if you are not blessed with good friends.
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